Being totally objective here on AW vs Garmin...

[Zelegorm]

BTW. I would never chose a proprietary platform from a watch seller. Never ever. I have the freedom to choose whatever I want. Serious sports people are choosing TrainingPeaks or final surge or runalyze or Tredict? Why? It’s watch independent. That’s why garmin connect is not serious argument. The next topic is: What if I am using stuff like the oura ring? In other platforms like hrv4training or Tredict I can chose the hardware I want. Not possible on a garmin.

A garmin is also not reliable at all because you have to carry your phone around. Even at home. No connection to WLAN at all. If you are going out in the garden: You will miss calls. Fall detection? Cool. If you have no phone with you: Completely useless. Garmin pay? Isn’t it a joke? And so on. From my point of view the garmin has even no chance in comparison to the cheapest Apple Watch. Technically years behind the Apple watch

 

[NME42]

BTW. I would never chose a proprietary platform from a watch seller.

As long as the platform is open to other devices, I do not care if the platform is from the watch seller.
But you have a good point. At the time I was a Garmin owner, I did a lot of bike training on my indoor bike with Zwift.
One could upload the trainings to Garmin Connect but guess what, all the training status metrics simply ignored trainings not recorded on Garmin devices. So all the metrics were garbage as a significant portion of my training was simply missing.
Workaround at that time was to record an indoor cycling activity parallel to the Zwift recording. When the workout was finished, upload the training from the watch, immediately delete it and then upload the Zwift training. Some statistics still were spoiled then because of the duplicate training. Well. No idea if they are open to external devices now or still are limited. Think, they had a license issue with Firstbeat then.

 

[PatrickNSF]

What is it, serious question.

When asking my friends (all well-trained triathletes or marathon runners) who own Fenix 7, Epix 2, 955 and 965 none of them says that the newly added metrics add any value for them. Instead, they are joking about the recommendations and observations their watches make.

The only thing that got better is the race predictor which was a joke before 945.
Still remember when my watch (a 935) was detecting a lactate threshold heart rate which was ok and at the same time predicted me a marathon race time which was faster than the lactate threshold pace (a pace which can be sustained for about an hour by definition).

I’m not using a coach this year and I want something different from the plans I’ve used in the past – primarily Daniels and Hansons – for marathon training so I’m using Garmin‘s daily suggested workouts based off the two fall marathons I have on my calendar. It’s based off my goal time, workout performance and training readiness (sleep, HRV, recovery, load, etc.). I move workouts around depending on my schedule and mood. It’s easy to use and I feel pretty decent after 8-10 weeks of training. I haven’t found anything similar with AW apps.

But my goals are pretty modest. As long as I can run one Boston qualifier each year – I usually run more than one – I‘m content. I’m not looking for a PR this year and I only have six races on the 2023 calendar (four marathons and two half marathons).

When I race I pace myself with manual laps at each mile marker and since the 955 lap pacing with Garmin has been fairly accurate. I used to use a Stryd for better pacing but I haven’t needed that anymore. Lap pacing with my AW (S7) still needs work in my experience. I didn’t keep the Ultra long enough to try racing with it because it didn’t work out for me in other areas (e.g., optical HR, screen customization).

 

[Indianwin2001]

BTW. I would never chose a proprietary platform from a watch seller. Never ever. I have the freedom to choose whatever I want. Serious sports people are choosing TrainingPeaks or final surge or runalyze or Tredict? Why? It’s watch independent. That’s why garmin connect is not serious argument. The next topic is: What if I am using stuff like the oura ring? In other platforms like hrv4training or Tredict I can chose the hardware I want. Not possible on a garmin.

A garmin is also not reliable at all because you have to carry your phone around. Even at home. No connection to WLAN at all. If you are going out in the garden: You will miss calls. Fall detection? Cool. If you have no phone with you: Completely useless. Garmin pay? Isn’t it a joke? And so on. From my point of view the garmin has even no chance in comparison to the cheapest Apple Watch. Technically years behind the Apple watch

I've used Training Peaks for years. Apple samples HRV 2 or 3 times a night, unless you lie and say you have afib, which Athlytic encourage. Apple also samples HRV during the day, which is totally useless. BUT I'll stay with Garmin and since this a Apple forum, will not comment further. No point to it.

 

[Zelegorm]

Apple also samples HRV during the day, which is totally useless

It's not. And accurate. And works great in Training today and is much more reliable than the body battery in my case. The body battery is always low at the evening. Wow. What an innovative algorithm . In fact I am sitting the whole day and have normal work stress. A run in the evening is very good for me and I am totally prepared and happy to do that. I would follow the body battery I shouldn't run. Crap. In Training today it's much more reliable. It's not "down" in the evening. Nope. It's working like expected.

 

[PatrickNSF]

It's not. And accurate. And works great in Training today and is much more reliable than the body battery in my case. The body battery is always low at the evening. Wow. What an innovative algorithm . In fact I am sitting the whole day and have normal work stress. A run in the evening is very good for me and I am totally prepared and happy to do that. I would follow the body battery I shouldn't run. Crap. In Training today it's much more reliable. It's not "down" in the evening. Nope. It's working like expected.

Training Readiness is meant to be used for training/workouts. Unlike Body Battery, it will often rise through the day if you haven’t already worked out.

There’s a good explanation in DC Rainmaker’s Garmin 955 review –

Garmin Forerunner 955 (with Solar) In-Depth Review

It’s been 3 years and 2 days since Garmin announced the Forerunner 945, and today, it’s finally properly refreshed with the Forerunner 955. Except, it’s actually two watches – the Forerunner 955 & the Forerunner 955 Solar. Today’s announcement marks

www.dcrainmaker.com

 

[Zelegorm]

Training Readiness is meant to be used for training/workouts. Unlike Body Battery, it will often rise through the day if you haven’t already worked out.

There’s a good explanation in DC Rainmaker’s Garmin 955 review –

Garmin Forerunner 955 (with Solar) In-Depth Review

It’s been 3 years and 2 days since Garmin announced the Forerunner 945, and today, it’s finally properly refreshed with the Forerunner 955. Except, it’s actually two watches – the Forerunner 955 & the Forerunner 955 Solar. Today’s announcement marks

www.dcrainmaker.com

I know that feature. And yes. It’s better than Body battery. But it’s not better than athlytics or training today in my case.

And especially I always have to think about the fact: I will definitely wear a Apple Watch throughout the day. For what should I buy an additional very expensive watch with less good hardware? For this? Nope. For some metrics? Like I said : Never use a platform from a watch seller. I am free to use any watch I want and still have the same data quality and analysis. Garmin connect? Never ever

 

[bsmr]

This is really missing from Garmin Connect. They have massive data but no real recommendation stuff behind that. All these things are not interconnected with each other.

I thought, that this is what GC is doing... Putting all the things together and giving you good data, recommendation and so on... (Body Battery, stress, activity,...).

 

[NME42]

I thought, that this is what GC is doing... Putting all the things together and giving you good data, recommendation and so on... (Body Battery, stress, activity,...).

I am speaking more of a midterm view related to ones goals not just measurements and direct recommendations. Also, not only heart rate or HRV related recommendations as I pointed out with my example about stride length.

 

[solq]

Never use a platform from a watch seller. I am free to use any watch I want and still have the same data quality and analysis. Garmin connect? Never ever

Huh? Never use a platform from a watch seller? As opposed to what? Is there some open source, widely used, very compatible platform with other smartwatches out there that I’m unaware of? All the platforms are proprietary as far as I’m aware - Coros, Polar, Apple, Suunto, Garmin, Whoop, Oura, Android Wear etc. I went through a few (I mean, in our household we have Garmin, Apple, Fitbit, Polar and Oura) and I have friends who cover the rest, so I’m reasonably familiar with them.

How do you get the same data quality and analysis as good as Garmin? It’s probably got the widest ecosystem of devices and compatibility with gym equipment out there, which means huge flexibility depending on your needs, and since there’s no requirement for a monthly payment, Garmin is actually quite cost effective. It’s an excellent platform.

Your posts seem more like religious mantra than reasoned arguments.

Garmin has great hardware, it’s just optimized for different things compared to Apple Watch. Most importantly, battery life. I will trade the ability to type text messages and show my boarding pass on the watch for 10+ days battery life, no problem. Add the built-in, completely hassle free (I never loaded anything on my Epix 2, just used it as it came), topographic quality navigation and I’m done, the rest is a truckload of cherries on top.

 

[Indianwin2001]

Huh? Never use a platform from a watch seller? As opposed to what? Is there some open source, widely used, very compatible platform with other smartwatches out there that I’m unaware of? All the platforms are proprietary as far as I’m aware - Coros, Polar, Apple, Suunto, Garmin, Whoop, Oura, Android Wear etc. I went through a few (I mean, in our household we have Garmin, Apple, Fitbit, Polar and Oura) and I have friends who cover the rest, so I’m reasonably familiar with them.

How do you get the same data quality and analysis as good as Garmin? It’s probably got the widest ecosystem of devices and compatibility with gym equipment out there, which means huge flexibility depending on your needs, and since there’s no requirement for a monthly payment, Garmin is actually quite cost effective. It’s an excellent platform.

Your posts seem more like religious mantra than reasoned arguments.

Garmin has great hardware, it’s just optimized for different things compared to Apple Watch. Most importantly, battery life. I will trade the ability to type text messages and show my boarding pass on the watch for 10+ days battery life, no problem. Add the built-in, completely hassle free (I never loaded anything on my Epix 2, just used it as it came), topographic quality navigation and I’m done, the rest is a truckload of cherries on top.

Agree. He is just a Garmin hater OR has never used Garmin Connect and has no idea what it does.

 

[NME42]

Huh? Never use a platform from a watch seller? As opposed to what? Is there some open source, widely used, very compatible platform with other smartwatches out there that I’m unaware of?

As far as open source is concerned, I only know of GoldenCheetah. Compatible with all devices.
Runalyze was open source and is also device agnostic.

And of course Strava (which I do not like) is very widely used. Guess more than any other platform. It also is very compatible.

 

[solq]

As far as open source is concerned, I only know of GoldenCheetah. Compatible with all devices.
Runalyze was open source and is also device agnostic.

And of course Strava (which I do not like) is very widely used. Guess more than any other platform. It also is very compatible.

Strava you can get with anything as far as I know, Garmin included.

As for the others - I do Crossfit, martial arts, swimming… How are they going to help me? Literally any vendor’s app is better.

 

[Zelegorm]

Agree. He is just a Garmin hater OR has never used Garmin Connect and has no idea what it does.

Or he has something better than this crap 😂

 

[Zelegorm]

BTW. Garmin is struggling again after the last crash. It’s getting harder for garmin and harder every year. The Apple Watch is by far the best watch out there by far. Therefore you will think twice if you would buy a second watch like a garmin

Garmin Outdoor Sales Still Declining - Q2.2023 results are in

Garmin seems to be bucking the recessionary elements in global markets.

the5krunner.com

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

No cell no care, whole point of the watch for me is so I can leave the blocky fragile and expensive phone at home

Workout wise, all I really need is a stop watch, generally I listen to my body for the rest

That being said with my lifestyle I don’t really “work out” chopping wood up for a braai, hiking for miles in the woods, lifting and moving all sorts of stuff, swimming etc

 

[Indianwin2001]

No cell no care, whole point of the watch for me is so I can leave the blocky fragile and expensive phone at home

Workout wise, all I really need is a stop watch, generally I listen to my body for the rest

That being said with my lifestyle I don’t really “work out” chopping wood up for a braai, hiking for miles in the woods, lifting and moving all sorts of stuff, .

 

[Indianwin2001]

BTW. Garmin is struggling again after the last crash. It’s getting harder for garmin and harder every year. The Apple Watch is by far the best watch out there by far. Therefore you will think twice if you would buy a second watch like a garmin

Garmin Outdoor Sales Still Declining - Q2.2023 results are in

Garmin seems to be bucking the recessionary elements in global markets.

the5krunner.com

Hmmm Same article Second paragraph. FITNESS division sales grew 23%. Hmmm. Meanwhile Apple uses SAME processor for 6,7,8 AND Ultra. STAGNENT

 

[bsmr]

Meanwhile Apple uses SAME processor for 6,7,8 AND Ultra.

Meanwhile this processor is still miles ahead from what Garmin ist using/doing... So what 😎

 

[johnb300m]

BTW. Garmin is struggling again after the last crash. It’s getting harder for garmin and harder every year. The Apple Watch is by far the best watch out there by far. Therefore you will think twice if you would buy a second watch like a garmin

Garmin Outdoor Sales Still Declining - Q2.2023 results are in

Garmin seems to be bucking the recessionary elements in global markets.

the5krunner.com

I could be mistaken, I'm not intimately familiar with Garmin's sales metrics.
But it could seem to me that their fitness devices are maybe taking on more and more capabilities that the handhelds and outdoor devices did. Maybe it's some internal cannibalization of product?

 

[solq]

Meanwhile this processor is still miles ahead from what Garmin ist using/doing... So what 😎

It's not miles ahead, it's back there in the charger... 😂

Nobody cares about Garmin's profits unless you have a financial interest in them. They're not going anywhere anytime soon, you can buy with confidence, it's not like Connect is shutting down next month.

This is a manufactured worry/outrage for people who have otherwise lost the argument.

It's like me worrying about my iPad because Apple's iPad sales just went down 20%. Who cares.

I'm more interested in Linux/Windows being ported to Apple's silicon, I got last week a MB Pro M2 Max and that's gonna brick once out of security updates unless things change.

 

[NME42]

I could be mistaken, I'm not intimately familiar with Garmin's sales metrics.
But it could seem to me that their fitness devices are maybe taking on more and more capabilities that the handhelds and outdoor devices did. Maybe it's some internal cannibalization of product?

No. Two reasons: new products. And also that 2022 was a terrible year for Garmin fitness division. Revenue dropped 30% from 2021 to 2022.

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

Hmmm Same article Second paragraph. FITNESS division sales grew 23%. Hmmm. Meanwhile Apple uses SAME processor for 6,7,8 AND Ultra. STAGNENT

What’s it need a faster processor for? It’s software crippled

Apple Watch can’t do a VPN, can’t connect to car hands free, can’t do a ton of things due to the software

I like it watch but there are lots of things it SHOULD be able to do that it can’t do

 

[Indianwin2001]

Meanwhile this processor is still miles ahead from what Garmin ist using/doing... So what 😎

So what Garmin do you use today?

 

[Indianwin2001]

What’s it need a faster processor for? It’s software crippled

Apple Watch can’t do a VPN, can’t connect to car hands free, can’t do a ton of things due to the software

I like it watch but there are lots of things it SHOULD be able to do that it can’t do

Apple SW is a joke. Anything fitness related needs a paid app AND just reads from Apple Health anyway. Athlytic is very inaccurate