You are correct, but there are many thieves, so there is that.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Bernie Sanders Wishes Apple Would Move Some Manufacturing to US and Pay 'Fair Share' of Taxes
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You are correct, but there are many thieves, so there is that.
Yeah, I see. People don't like freedom. They like "free" things that are paid for by other people until everyone goes bankrupt. It's truly a shame that people do not understand how this works.
To be fare, wherever you stand on his politics is there really a good picture of him? That may be his official Senate pic.
I have a problem with corporations paying 6% income tax (Google, Apple, etc.) when I pay close to 6 times that. After I factor in state income tax, sales tax, and the litany of other crap I'm forced to pay for and deal with (high gas tax, etc.), I get absolutely screwed compared to them. I'm paying like 40-50% of everything I make to some kind of taxation.
That's a ridiculous hardship on me. I can do real things that would improve my quality of life significant with that money.
I can't perform a Double Irish Arrangement to cut my rate. There are no loopholes or tricks for me, being a single guy. High asset prices and inflation absolutely screw my savings. I keep my expenses low, which means I just have fewer deductions. I work two jobs which just means I pay more. **** socialists - you already rob me of enough to pay for your stupid **** I never voted for and never wanted.
Either make corporations pay the same rate as individuals, or allow individuals the same loopholes corporations get so I can pay the same rate they do. Flat tax across the board for everyone is best. No deductions - simplify the tax code and make it a 1 page form for everything.
The current tax situation in this country is unsustainable, especially when you consider that raising taxes to 100% on everyone won't cover BS entitlement expenses, or even interest payments on the national debt should the interest rate be allowed to rise where it needs to be (target inflation : 0%).
That's a ridiculous hardship on me. I can do real things that would improve my quality of life significant with that money.
I can't perform a Double Irish Arrangement to cut my rate. There are no loopholes or tricks for me, being a single guy. High asset prices and inflation absolutely screw my savings. I keep my expenses low, which means I just have fewer deductions. I work two jobs which just means I pay more. **** socialists - you already rob me of enough to pay for your stupid **** I never voted for and never wanted.
Either make corporations pay the same rate as individuals, or allow individuals the same loopholes corporations get so I can pay the same rate they do. Flat tax across the board for everyone is best. No deductions - simplify the tax code and make it a 1 page form for everything.
The current tax situation in this country is unsustainable, especially when you consider that raising taxes to 100% on everyone won't cover BS entitlement expenses, or even interest payments on the national debt should the interest rate be allowed to rise where it needs to be (target inflation : 0%).
This is exactly what "ACA" did to health "benefits" at evert major company in my area. Made it too expensive to offer the former benefits, or if they are still offered, are now priced through the roof. Thanks for nothing!
Um, you do know that the proportional cost of living in China means those people working at Foxconn make a solid living, right? What YOU want is for America to collect taxes on everything around the world so that you can reap ridiculous social programs that you THINK you deserve.
I want to vote for trump just to see if the world comes to an end.
I read your post that he was referring to... and you didn't state that people who thought you don't need taxes are stupid. Or i would agree with you. You said that people who support Trump, and who want a tough president are stupid. With that statement you are way out of line.
I've heard this (company, rich guy/gal/politician) should pay it's/his/her fair share of taxes before. What bothers me isn't that some folks have the resources to trim their tax bill more than others, it's that politicians sit on their butts suggesting that it's somehow the responsibility of individuals to fix the tax code while they do nothing.
Dale
Dale
I am going to go out on a limb and assume you don't understand corporate taxation... i.e. double taxation. Corporations pay taxes on their earnings. But then they pay out those earnings to its shareholders. Those shareholders then have to pay taxes on those earnings again. So for every dollar earned by a company like Apple... far more tax is collected by the government than you are suggesting.
Don't believe me? Buy some shares of Apple stock. After Apple has paid whatever percentage of tax they pay on that income... they will pay you a dividend for your stock. I can assure you the tax man will come looking for tax on those earnings.
And Somalia is a good example of when war lords, pirates, and other armed groups get that freedom. You got another example of an existing largish country where government tax collection has mostly failed?
The average cost of living in China is around 40% lower than it is in the US. Foxconn workers make about $16 dollars a day working 8 hour days through 6 day work weeks. That means they make around $400 a month. Considerably less than your average American factory worker, who earns around $14 per hour, or around $560 per week.
So if the cost of living is not quite half as expensive as it is here in the US, and your average Foxconn worker makes around a 1/5th of your average American factory worker, I'd say that no, they're not making enough to make ends meet. They're making considerably less than our minimum wage workers, all things considered.
On top of their earnings they get free housing, food and entertainment. Basically that $400 a month is beer money.
Also PPP figures aren't always accurate and they are generally worse if you are richer and better if you are poorer in developing countries.
I like your calm approach to this, but Apple has a responsibility to its shareholders first and foremost to maximize profit. Bernie criticizing Apple of all people for doing something every company does is pretty ridiculous. Especially considering Apple would have to pay taxes on already taxed income to bring all that money over here. And the fact that there aren't enough qualified people in this country to make Apple products. He just sounds like he's uninformed on this issue but speaking like all politicians speak: like they know everything
Which is kinda funny if you think about it. With all the hooplah concerning how we're losing domestic manufacturing jobs to cheap overseas labor, we'd have to greatly expand our entitlement programs to sustain a lower wage economy in order to match them dollar for dollar.
...and isn't spending too much on entitlements part of our supposed problems?
True. That figure probably needs to be taken with a grain of salt. But it works for an average, I guess.
Aren't Mac pro's made in the US? Tim Cook has said many times he wants more products to be made in America, it's just not feasible on a large scale right now for the lack of skilled workers. China is big on vocational training such as manufacturing. America? We make stuff...but the scale and the culture is very different.
And the tax stuff....it's like...you shouldn't make laws in such a way that says companies only have to pay X amount and then cry that they only pay X amount when you want them to pay more. What do you expect companies to do? Just voluntarily pay more than is required? It's up to the government to change its tax policies. Not for Apple to change the government. This is such a dysfunctional system it's not even funny
The whole point of what Sanders says is that them paying their fair share would allow the US to reduce the taxes on people like you. Instead of just complaining about high taxes, you should blame past governments for not having closed the loopholes, but also large companies who use them: just because you can get away with something illegal, doesn't make it ok. Things can be done, measures can be taken. It's not "**** taxes" or "**** socialists", it should be "**** people who do not pay their fair share, because they make me pay for it on top of my share". If you don't vote, or if you don't vote consequently, stop complaining.
Well that's hyperbole if I've ever seen it. Bill Clinton raised taxes too but I don't remember people whining as much about it back then as they do now. After Clinton, the country was actually in a surplus. Then bush came and lowered taxes, spent more money than we had and look where we ended up.Always with the, "We need more taxation because we need more money because we already spent our record tax receipts."
Issues are complicated and can't be explained perfectly in one picture with text over it
True. It's not entirely fair, and I really honestly can't blame Apple for taking advantage of loopholes that are there solely to be taken advantage of. It's like blaming fat kids for eating cookies out of the free cookie jar. Any solution to this problem will have to originate where it all started: Washington.
Guilting our companies into being altruistic won't do much of anything.
I never completely understood Apple as a target either. Especially with the Foxconn stuff. When other products like X boxes are made there, but people aren't calling on Microsoft to cut down on the slave labor like they're responsible for people jumping off buildings
Because either they don't understand that they are the ones getting screwed in the end, or because they are delusional and think there's a chance that one day they too they'll be rich enough to exploit them.
For tax evaders, the beauty of having a government agency as a middle man when it comes to tax collection is that people get angry at the tax collector, not at those who own half the country and evade taxes. It's like feudalism and tithes, with a twist: make rules so complicated that people who don't understand how it works will pick the wrong adversary. Brilliant. Also, make the people vote for the tax collector so that they genuinely think they're free.
Last edited: