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Biggest ATV4 disappointment. No 1080p24
- Thread starter dannys1
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Most movies and TV shows on iTunes are. For example, here's the media info of the video stream of an episode of "Breaking Bad":
Format : AVC
Format profile : High@L4.0
Duration : 47mn 58s
Bit rate : 4 791 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.096
Stream size : 1.61 GiB (90%)
Thanks Rigby, I don't think this guy is ever going to admit he's got about 15 things wrong in this thread so far though. I didn't actually have any iTunes media to check (I don't use it) but I figured they'd keep the native frame rate as it makes no point to re-encode everything and do 3:2 pulldown within the file when every TV in the world can do it.
But as to this loons original question, yes all my media is in the correct FPS... eg
that is exactly what Apple is targeting, just like ipad. so you are just confirming that Apple is right at their aimed target.
So what devices (other than blu-ray players) offer "1080p24"? Attempting to google this question results in lots of other people asking the same question.
My six-year-old Popcorn Hour media streamer, for a start...
... I'm not asking for the Earth, here.
I make no claim of working in any related industry, but can I ask what you mean by "obsolete"? The Blu-ray movies that I come across, without exception, play back at 24fps - surely they're not being shanked down from a higher, native frame-rate...?
If Apple doesn't have it, it's automatically obsolete, just like S/PDIF audio interfaces, USB type A etc.
OS X, Windows, any computer with a HDMI output basically running any OS (linux too) Engina2 based Linux setup top boxes. Xbox's, Playstations, other streaming boxes, all medium to top end A/V Receivers.
Anything with a HDMI out is capable of doing it really if the software enables it.
I'm afraid it isn't. Every movie and cinematic TV show is and will continue to be shot at 24fps, I don't know where you've got this idea from.
At best they might upgrade to 48fps in the future, but that still leaves us with the same problem we have now with 50hz and 60hz TV sets, 24 nor 48 divide equally into those refresh rates thus you have to duplicate frames and create stutter.
It baffles me how so many people across the net don't understand frame rates at all. The latest cinematic TV show you're watching NOW (eg Fargo, which is being broadcast currently) is 24p. Spectre which has just broke all box office records around the world this weekend, is 24p. Its not going to change anytime soon, thus the Apple TV SHOULD support it - and whats more it should just do automatic resolution switching.
Radar has been raised anyway. I expect most people in this thread dismissing 24p don't even know what a Radar is either.
Sorry if this has already been brought up... is it possible for 3rd party apps to output 24p properly?
Brutal
I'd really hoped that a 3rd party app on the new Apple TV would be a good reason to stop using my WDTV. Guess not.Funnily enough, I just read this fantastic piece about some TV's having a "film" option that works without telecine judder if you feed it an interlaced rather than progressive signal. So choosing 1080i in a device will allow the TV in a film mode to give you judder free video from a 24fps source, perfect for things like Netflix.
Have a read - https://jordanbortz.wordpress.com/2...-netflix-and-cable-on-your-120hz-or-240hz-tv/
One problem with that on the Apple TV though - APPLE TV HAS NO INTERLACED OUTPUT MODES!! Its only 720p or 1080p bah.
The only way to avoid judder is if you have a TV that can work in a 120hz refresh rate as 24 divides equally into it, however i'm not sure if then the Apple TV would already spoil things by doing 3:2 pull down (as it can only output at 50hz or 60hz) before the TV even got the signal...i'm not sure, don't know how that works, but maybe it would be ok, however my TV is 100hz only, no special 120hz mode here.
I'm going to add the option of interlaced output modes to the Radar report as well - I expect to see a tvOS update with this stuff in, its far far too basic a device right now for anything other than a kids bedroom.
Have a read - https://jordanbortz.wordpress.com/2...-netflix-and-cable-on-your-120hz-or-240hz-tv/
One problem with that on the Apple TV though - APPLE TV HAS NO INTERLACED OUTPUT MODES!! Its only 720p or 1080p bah.
The only way to avoid judder is if you have a TV that can work in a 120hz refresh rate as 24 divides equally into it, however i'm not sure if then the Apple TV would already spoil things by doing 3:2 pull down (as it can only output at 50hz or 60hz) before the TV even got the signal...i'm not sure, don't know how that works, but maybe it would be ok, however my TV is 100hz only, no special 120hz mode here.
I'm going to add the option of interlaced output modes to the Radar report as well - I expect to see a tvOS update with this stuff in, its far far too basic a device right now for anything other than a kids bedroom.
ATV4 just keeps getting better and better. No 4k, no GigE, universal search doesn't include iTunes Home Sharing library, no Remote app, app store browsing interface is painfully inefficient...and now I'm hearing there's no 24p. It's reasonable to expect a rash of bugs in the early days of a new product, but it seems these disappointing omissions are deliberate.
I'm not (yet) as distraught over the 4k business as some are (although I'm surprised Apple passed up the opportunity to cheekily market 4k for the Apple TV 4). I'm a bit of a late adopter anyway, and I was excited to put away the discs and just stream all my iTunes library content over the network. It gave me pause to hear Siri is largely ignorant of shared iTunes library, but then I'm also hearing that Siri search API will be opened to apps eventually so I have hope. And I understand ripping my discs into sane file sizes means compromising a bit in quality, and I'm willing to give up that bit of quality for the great convenience of not having to mess with these optical discs any longer (and risk accidentally dropping, scratching them, etc). But 99% of movies are 24p, so outputting a forced 60Hz means pulldown judder (unless one has a TV capable of decent reverse telecine); this revelation means the compromise is worse than I hoped. As OP states, commodity $30 optical disc players have been able to output (and TVs have been able to display) native 24p for years now, to emulate the authentic cinematic experience. Completing the journey from disc to eyeballs in uncompromised 24p is even a big selling point for 96/120/240 Hz TVs and projectors and optical players. Indeed, since the days of DVD, players themselves have even had reverse telecine, so Apple's insistence on 60Hz for everything is all the more frustrating, and is a marked step backwards.
i remain hopeful Apple will eventually address these shortcomings; it's just a bit puzzling they didn't make it into the initial - 4th - release. Planned obsolescence? Anyway, let's hope the next revision doesn't take another 3 and a half years.
I'm not (yet) as distraught over the 4k business as some are (although I'm surprised Apple passed up the opportunity to cheekily market 4k for the Apple TV 4). I'm a bit of a late adopter anyway, and I was excited to put away the discs and just stream all my iTunes library content over the network. It gave me pause to hear Siri is largely ignorant of shared iTunes library, but then I'm also hearing that Siri search API will be opened to apps eventually so I have hope. And I understand ripping my discs into sane file sizes means compromising a bit in quality, and I'm willing to give up that bit of quality for the great convenience of not having to mess with these optical discs any longer (and risk accidentally dropping, scratching them, etc). But 99% of movies are 24p, so outputting a forced 60Hz means pulldown judder (unless one has a TV capable of decent reverse telecine); this revelation means the compromise is worse than I hoped. As OP states, commodity $30 optical disc players have been able to output (and TVs have been able to display) native 24p for years now, to emulate the authentic cinematic experience. Completing the journey from disc to eyeballs in uncompromised 24p is even a big selling point for 96/120/240 Hz TVs and projectors and optical players. Indeed, since the days of DVD, players themselves have even had reverse telecine, so Apple's insistence on 60Hz for everything is all the more frustrating, and is a marked step backwards.
i remain hopeful Apple will eventually address these shortcomings; it's just a bit puzzling they didn't make it into the initial - 4th - release. Planned obsolescence? Anyway, let's hope the next revision doesn't take another 3 and a half years.
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How exactly did you conclude that the Apple TV doesn't play 1080p24? And what frame rate and resolution do you think the Apple TV is therefore operating at while streaming all of that iTunes, Hulu, and Netflix 1080p24 content?
Well its quite easy when you've got one, the output options are 50hz or 60hz. There's no native 24hz refresh rate to match, there's also no interlaced modes. So its either 1080p50 or 1080p60 depending on what option you have in settings.
And when you say "play" you're misunderstanding me. Of course it PLAYS 24fps content, but it spits it out at 50hz or 60hz thus telecine judder.
Maybe i'm a little slow. But I have watched plenty of shows on Netflix and Hulu that looked fine on the Apple TV. I'm sure these shows are filmed at 24fps because they look so film like. However I've never noticed any "judder". I have a regular 1080p 60Hhz LCD.
Not everyone has a discerning enough eye to notice it - most people are so used to it they filter it out themselves. Its most noticeable in slow pans from left to right or right to left as every so often a frame will be repeated so the pan isn't smooth anymore. If you've never noticed it, best not go looking as you can't unsee it again.
That guy disappeared when he was asked to produce his film resume
Tbh, i'm surprised it took him that long to disappear. I can only think the mods haven't deleted this thread because they found it hilarious