Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
If you guys read the original story (maybe you have , but I'll continue as if you have not ;)). The movie is primarily focused on Deckard's hunting down of the rogue replicants touching on some themes about what it means to be real vs artificial. I assume because Ford's character is in this, it will be a continuation of the original screenplay, however IMO the original book is much richer than the movie and there are many themes they could examine.

  • The Earth is dying because of a previous nuclear war.
  • Most people are immigrating to Mars or space stations.
  • People who are too damaged can't leave, and with mental damage are called chicken heads.
  • People still on Earth are so obsessed with living creatures, owning them as pets is a major preoccupation and expense. So strong is the desire, that people who can't afford real, are content with artificial animals.
  • Mood Organs are used to artificially adjust people's moods.
  • The exploration of Mercer-ism a religion followed by virtually everyone and an accusation from the most popular tv personality that it is fake, but is it?
  • A group fusion device used to experience Mercer-ism.
  • Questions regarding the replicant tests- An implication that the tests used to determine if a person is a replicant may not be full proof. An assumption all human beings have empathy for one aother, may not be true.
  • That replicants who rebel, want a better existence than being used as slaves.
  • Replicant's have something equivalent to a underground on Earth.
  • Rachel Rosen's personality is different than in the movie, she is in no real jeopardy, unlike the movie Rachel she is not the vulnerable andy who discovered she's not human. And it's not clear if she can really experience love or not.
  • In the book, what we see of the replicant's is they act primarily in self defense, which is similar to the movie except for Roy Blatty's cold blooded murder of Dr. Rosen (in the movie).

To answer your question "why?", the answer is revenue generation. :) It's an entertainment business that does not always fire on it's creative cylinders as it should, remakes and sequels often built on a existing foundation imo as a shortcut to reduce some of the creative burden.

I agree that in the realm of sequels unless they are part of multipart story, mostly they dissapoint. I agree that over reliance on CGI has ruined many a movie, while acknowledging that CGI is improving to such a degree that unless a person is being animated, it has reached a threshold where it's virtually impossible to tell what is real and what is generated. But none of this can substitute for brilliant vision, story telling and direction.

I'll add to your example, the original movie The Haunting (1963) as compared to its 1999 remake is night and day, the latter totally ruined by CGI while the former relies mostly on your imagination to scare you. And it's filmed in the most beautiful black and white. :)

large_the_haunting_blu-ray_06-e1442932974240.jpg

For the original Blade Runner, it's such a simple story, Deckard, a Blader Runner is given a mission to eliminate 4 rogue replicants who have the nerve to be unhappy about their existence resorting to violence. ;) He visits the replicant's maker, meets a replicant who he has empathy for, is attracted to, then one by one locates each rogue replicant and what happens, happens. In the end, he's back with arguably his love interest.

Although we don't exactly know how biological versus mechanical these artificial people are, I think what makes this movie standout is a dark future, the moral ramifications of artificial human slaves who are able to reflect on their existence, while feeling sadness and pain and might possibly be a remote examination of what it means to have a soul. As characters, I had the most empathy for Rachel and Roy. I guess that is no surprise. :) Roy is first presented as a killer, but then we get a better glimpse of his psyche.

Regarding the Blade Runner sequel- thank goodness it is a sequel and not a remake, however the bar will be so high I plan on being dissapointed. The original movie is set in 2019, this new movie 30 years later. What story choices will be made? Will Rachel have survived? Will there be more of the same, rogue replicants that need to be put down? Or will the continuation of this strory take a sharp turn and explore virgin territory?

Origin of the Blade Runner name (LINK)
An interesting tidbit, is that Phillip Dick wrote Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheet in 1968. The Blade Runner was an unrelated story/book written in 1974 about black market medical services in a futuristic society (I think) and based on that book in 1979, a screenplay was commissioned, but no movie was made. Then in 1982 the screenplay for the Phillip Dick story was written and the screenwriter preferred the name Bladerunner, suggested this to Ridley Scott who bought the rights to the other book so he could just use it's name.



Just watched Blade Runner (Final Cut) in prep for Blade Runner 2049 tomorrow.

This is brief but emotional for me:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

6EBA14F8-2F47-40EF-926F-8F402F9150D9.jpeg


The question is, if Deckard is a replicant, how did he survive 30 years? And what happened to Rachel?

Original Blade Runner Plot
  • Deckard is coerced to resume duties as a Blade Runner, he retires rogue replicants.
  • Rachel, Dr. Tyrell’s assistant, does not know she is a replicant at first.
  • Deckard retires Zhora (replicant dancer).
  • Rachel saves Deckard from Leon (replicant employee at Tyrell Corp).
  • At his apartment they have a personal relationship.
  • Priss (replicant) befriends Sebastian and introduces him to Roy (leader of rogue replicants).
  • Sebastian takes Roy to see Dr Tyrell, because Roy wants to extend his and Priss’s life. There is no good answer so he murders Tyrell.
  • Deckard goes to Sebastian’s apartment to confront the 2 remaining replicants.
  • Priss almost kills him, but he kills her.
  • Roy breaks two of Deckard’s fingers and gives him a fighting chance.
  • Roy feels loss for Priss.
  • In pursuit of Deckard, Roy starts to die (lifespan ending) and drives a nail though his hand to maintain functionality.
  • Roy chases Deckard to the roof, and instead of killing him, saves Deckard’s life, and delivers a monologue just before his time runs out.
 
Last edited:
Just watched Blade Runner (Final Cut) in prep for Blade Runner 2049 tomorrow.

This is brief but emotional for me:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.



The question is, if Deckard is a replicant, how did he survive 30 years? And what happened to Rachel?

Original Blade Runner Plot
  • Deckard is coerced to resume duties as a Blade Runner, he retires rogue replicants.
  • Rachel, Dr. Tyrell’s assistant, does not know she is a replicant at first.
  • Deckard retires Zhora.
  • Rachel saves Deckard from Leon.
  • At his apartment they have a personal relationship.
  • Priss befriends Sebastian and introduces him to Roy.
  • Sebastian takes Roy to see Dr Tyrell, because Roy wants to extend his and Priss’s life. There is no good answer so he murders Tyrell.
  • Deckard goes to Sebastian’s apartment to confront the 2 remaining Replicants.
  • Priss almost kills him, but he kills her.
  • Roy breaks two of Deckard’s fingers and gives him a fighting chance.
  • Roy feels loss for Priss.
  • Roy starts to die and drives a nail though his hand to maintain functionality.
  • Roy chases Deckard to the roof, and instead of killing him, saves Deckard’s life, and delivers a monologue just before his time runs out.


This opens tomorrow on a Tuesday? Damn! Epic.
I've still not been able to see the first movie from beginning to end - was a kid then and well just too drawn out as that era of great movie making started to die off. I think I was more into Superman (C.Reeves), Empire Strikes Back and Apocolypse Now, along with Alien more then.
 
The question is, if Deckard is a replicant, how did he survive 30 years?

In the last few years Ridley Scott has publically stated that Deckard is a replicant, so there shouldn't continue to be any debate about this. Also the story is much better if Deckard is a replicant than a human anyway.

I used to speculate that Deckard and Rachel could survive if: (1) the artificially induced 4-year time limit was never built into them at the factory, (2) it malfunctioned somehow, or (3) someone found a way around it. Yes the designer claimed that the expiration date couldn't be bypassed, but there is a long history of designers being wrong and security systems being defeated.

Now that BR2049 is out, we have the answer.

Deckard and Rachel are special replicants crafted by Eldon Tyrell and programmed to fall in love with each other in order to see if replicants can reproduce and raise children. Because they are special prototype units, they simply don't have the artificial time limit that the standard factory models do.

The replicant gang that gets knocked off are NEXUS-6 models with the time limit. Deckard/Rachel are NEXUS-7. BR2049 introduces NEXUS-8 and -9 models.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
This opens tomorrow on a Tuesday? Damn! Epic.
I've still not been able to see the first movie from beginning to end - was a kid then and well just too drawn out as that era of great movie making started to die off. I think I was more into Superman (C.Reeves), Empire Strikes Back and Apocolypse Now, along with Alien more then.

Blade Runner 2049 opened last Thursday night. I’m going to see it tomorrow. :)
[doublepost=1507587344][/doublepost]
In the last few years Ridley Scott has publically stated that Deckard is a replicant, so there shouldn't continue to be any debate about this. Also the story is much better if Deckard is a replicant than a human anyway.

I used to speculate that Deckard and Rachel could survive if: (1) the artificially induced 4-year time limit was never built into him at the factory, (2) it malfunctioned somehow, or (3) if someone found a way around it. Yes the designer claimed that the expiration date couldn't be bypassed, but there is a long history of designers being wrong and security systems being defeated.

Now that BR2049 is out, we have the answer.

Deckard and Rachel are special replicants crafted by Eldon Tyrell and programmed to fall in love with each other in order to see if replicants can reproduce and raise children. Because they are special prototype units, they simply don't have the aritificial time limit that the standard factory models do.
Dr Tyrell sincerely explained to Roy why it was impossible, of course as you said...
I will read your Spoiler tomorrow! :)
 
Last edited:
In the last few years Ridley Scott has publically stated that Deckard is a replicant, so there shouldn't continue to be any debate about this. Also the story is much better if Deckard is a replicant than a human anyway.

Ridley yes, but Denis wants to "walk a fine line" in the sequel:


I agree with the notion that Deckard's character works better as a replicant, but I appreciate how Denis is leaving the question open.

Loved the sequel. Maybe some of you have answers to my spoiler questions posted in another thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-movie-are-you-watching.1069107/page-399#post-25196895

I would appreciate feedback on my theories and questions / explanations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn
Just watched Blade Runner (Final Cut) in prep for Blade Runner 2049 tomorrow.

This is brief but emotional for me:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.



The question is, if Deckard is a replicant, how did he survive 30 years? And what happened to Rachel?

Original Blade Runner Plot
  • Deckard is coerced to resume duties as a Blade Runner, he retires rogue replicants.
  • Rachel, Dr. Tyrell’s assistant, does not know she is a replicant at first.
  • Deckard retires Zhora.
  • Rachel saves Deckard from Leon.
  • At his apartment they have a personal relationship.
  • Priss befriends Sebastian and introduces him to Roy.
  • Sebastian takes Roy to see Dr Tyrell, because Roy wants to extend his and Priss’s life. There is no good answer so he murders Tyrell.
  • Deckard goes to Sebastian’s apartment to confront the 2 remaining Replicants.
  • Priss almost kills him, but he kills her.
  • Roy breaks two of Deckard’s fingers and gives him a fighting chance.
  • Roy feels loss for Priss.
  • Roy starts to die and drives a nail though his hand to maintain functionality.
  • Roy chases Deckard to the roof, and instead of killing him, saves Deckard’s life, and delivers a monologue just before his time runs out.


This is great ... thanks for the share!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn
Some good YT videos as a preparation for BR 2049.

Don't watch if you haven't seen the original BR (or the three free short movies covering 2022 - 2048):


Or the discussion of Kubrick references in the original Blade Runner:


Or the visual design and attention to detail in the original:

https://typesetinthefuture.com/2016/06/19/bladerunner/

Great stuff for any movie lover!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn
This is great ... thanks for the share!

Ref: Original Blade Runner. An outstanding topic for future A.I. Debates, how human do you want your A.I. to be? ;)
That monologue along with the act of saving Deckard and the tears shed by replicants effected me as I’m sure many people, because it reflects an observation and poetry that a human could make, which casts the replicants in the light of being sympathetic victims who don’t want to spend their lives as slaves. How can you not feel sympathy for them? I suspect BR2049 will build on this... maybe. :p
 
I was (and am) a huge fan of the original, particularly the visuals of future L.A. It's hard to believe that 2019 is only two years away. I'm going to see the new film in a couple of weeks and am looking forward to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn
Some good YT videos as a preparation for BR 2049.

Don't watch if you haven't seen the original BR (or the three free short movies covering 2022 - 2048):


Or the discussion of Kubrick references in the original Blade Runner:


Or the visual design and attention to detail in the original:

https://typesetinthefuture.com/2016/06/19/bladerunner/

Great stuff for any movie lover!

See the Crunchy Roll anime Blackout 2022 (mentioned in your first link) here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/blade-ru...k-out-2022-blade-runner-black-out-2022-748417 It's impressive anime. It's supposed to link the original with 2049.

blade-runner-2049-villeneuve-scott-ford-gosling.jpg

Who are these people? :p I know, I know...​
 
Last edited:
A pre-viewing BR2049 critique of the story:
An interesting aspect of replicants is that they are not like androids, advanced robotics like STNG’s Data, but instead they are biological and if they are virtually identical to human beings in appearance, you have to wonder how much human biological material was used in their creation, in essence, why recreate the wheel? Because if they were made up of biological material that was not human, it would be as simple as taking a tissue sample, a small piece of skin or a blood sample to verify their replicant status. As the mechanics of replicant engineering remains vague and within the realm of science fiction, we are left to speculate. :D

A Replicant is a synthetic, biorobotic being with para-physical capabilities and designed to resemble a living, organic being. It is a genetically engineered being composed entirely of organic substance.

From a plot standpoint, it remains to be seen (I’ve not seen BR2049 yet) why would the Tyrell Corporation make artificial humans that were indistinguishable from real humans? Even if the goal was virtually identical, if this group was intended to be slaves, it would make sense if they were made to easily determine their non-human status, not be required to take complicated psychological tests to determine this. I imagine physical markers would be used even if they were subtle, even on the cell level. However, there could be an aspect here, of a humanoid organism designed with the intent of fooling other human beings.

As far as harming their masters, I assume if we are smart enough to create them, although their biological status might complicate the situation, although we might want something human like, would we want them so human like that we would feel empathy for them? Actually based on stories like A.I., I could easily see androids created for human companionship and comforting.

I think I understand in an effort to create a smart organism cabable of thinking on it’s own, that emotional complications could arise, but that we’d still be smart enough to instill the 3 laws of robotics into them, as they were thought up in the 1940s (I Robot). That is until if and when, we’d want them to be our equals. :)
 
A pre-viewing BR2049 critique of the story:
An interesting aspect of replicants is that they are not like androids, advanced robotics like STNG’s Data, but instead they are biological and if they are virtually identical to human beings in appearance, you have to wonder how much human biological material was used in their creation, in essence, why recreate the wheel? Because if they were made up of biological material that was not human, it would be as simple as taking a tissue sample, a small piece of skin or a blood sample to verify their replicant status. As the mechanics of replicant engineering remains vague and within the realm of science fiction, we are left to speculate. :D

A Replicant is a synthetic, biorobotic being with para-physical capabilities and designed to resemble a living, organic being. It is a genetically engineered being composed entirely of organic substance.

From a plot standpoint, it remains to be seen (I’ve not seen BR2049 yet) why would the Tyrell Corporation make artificial humans that were indistinguishable from real humans? Even if the goal was virtually identical, if this group was intended to be slaves, it would make sense if they were made to easily determine their non-human status, not be required to take complicated psychological tests to determine this. I imagine physical markers would be used even if they were subtle, even on the cell level. However, there could be an aspect here, of a humanoid organism designed with the intent of fooling other human beings.

As far as harming their masters, I assume if we are smart enough to create them, although their biological status might complicate the situation, although we might want something human like, would we want them so human like that we would feel empathy for them? Actually based on stories like A.I., I could easily see androids created for human companionship and comforting.

I think I understand in an effort to create a smart organism cabable of thinking on it’s own, that emotional complications could arise, but that we’d still be smart enough to instill the 3 laws of robotics into them, as they were thought up in the 1940s (I Robot). That is until if and when, we’d want them to be our equals. :)

With respect, this is a rubbish statement. All I have heard since the embargo broke was how thought provoking the film is. I've rewatched it twice, just to try to suss out exactly what people were talking about. There's nothing to the film. No questions, no ambiguity. Everything is spelt out in 1000-point font, a fact made all the more irritating since they functionally
retconned the biological dissimilarity between humans and replicants.
. There's no philosophical question to the film any longer; it's become
an absolute bog-standard us-vs-them messiah/redeemer monomyth/Exodus retelling, replete with fevered whispers about miracles. If replicants are just decanted humans, why is everyone so bleeding shocked that they managed to reproduce, even if they never had been able to before, even if they were inhibited by design? If two centuries of Darwinism has taught us anything, it's that any species will always mutate toward fostering reproduction. Conversely, if Wallace's asinine gambit, i.e. that Tyrell intended Deckard and Rachael to meet and breeds replicants capable of reproduction, he was by that same fact dooming the very goal he stated the company had in the first film: commerce. If you want to maintain high margins on a product, and thus make more money, don't make it easier to produce and do not make it capable, even in potential, to be self-perpetuating in the wild. Even if such a replicant were manually sterilised, a Tyrell competitor could buy one and clone a copy whose reproductive capacity is intact.

Don't conflate plotholes with profundity. The original had the exact same problem, it just didn't have to take three bleeding hours to achieve the same affect.



By all accounts, you're definitely going to get your wish. My hope is that the film flopping will finally kill the remake/belated sequel/adaptation behemoth that has sapped Hollywood of all originality for the past fifteen years.

Ok, just got home after the movie and dinner out (we ate early). I quoted @JohnGrey because his outlook is closest to mine, and it's better in this dedicated thread, than in the Movie thread.

Blade Runner 2049 Review

I can not guarantee you will like this movie. If you did not see or like the original, the chances are much higher you will hate this. While it is absolutely true to the original movie in terms of style and environment, as @derbladerunner said, an Arthouse film with a huge budget, the movie overflows with style, but too much of a good thing turns bad, especially when the story kind of crawls imo.

Ryan Gosling was great and yes, you can relish the fantastic visuals, but still it would have been better at 2 hrs. When I finally overcame the style, I was able to face the fact that this movie was slow moving for the most part, not that I'm saying that mindless action is better. The movie does have action in some crucial points and some basic questions held over from the original are answered. And I fully believe there will be a third movie to finish what they have started.

On to the shielded talking points:
  • The entire movie practically was about searching for the replicant who had been born. The best part however was Gosling thinking he was and then discovering that he was not the replicant who was born.

  • Is Deckard a replicant? There were rumors and I could have sworn that someone flat out said he was, but unless he was a special special replicant capable of reproduction who was infiltrated into the police department, the answer has to be "NO". If Tyrell wanted to experiment with replicant reproduction he could have easily have worked on it in secret, in house. If Deckard was also a special special replicant, why go through the trouble of planting in the police department?
    What the writer said about Deckard being a replicant: http://collider.com/blade-runner-2049-is-deckard-a-replicant/#images. Fancher was quick to answer absolutely not.

  • If the idea as promoted by Dr. Wallace, if you want reproducing replicant's than you'd want them to be around longer than 4 years (I think he said that) and I guess even if it all happened 30 years ago, if Rachel was a reproducing test bed, that he could have found that out when taking over the Tyrell Corporation's work. If replicants are in short supply, would having them reproduce be a faster way to increase supply if you have to wait for them to grow up? According to the movie, the Nexis 8 and after models were given normal life spans.

  • There is this talk of Deckard programed to fall in love with Rachel, or was she programed to be very appealing to him, and again, why? If it was to promote a sexual relationship between the two of them, why do it outside of controlled circumstances? I have to believe this was something that happened on it's own.

  • Granted they had pleasure models that needed functional sexual organs, but no need to have eggs, sperm, or a functional womb... unless someone wanted a pregnant replicant, or they were more human like than anyone knew. Based on my previous quoted post defining a replicant, the bones of Rachel seemed very human, so I can speculate they were much closer to being human than not, and now that we know at least one can reproduce, they meet the requirement of being very close genetically.

  • So was Mariette, who claimed to be a real girl, a human and was she just working for the replicant resistance? ;)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Queen6 and JohnGrey
I just watched it for a second time. My advice:

Watch it in 2D on the biggest screen you can find and with a good sound system (I think 3D doesn't help, too many dark scenes in BR 2049).

I still give it a 9/10.

Only small downsides from me:

- If there's one weaker performance, it's god-like Wallace. Jared Leto is overacting, but maybe that's wanted when you hear director Denis' job description / casting call and the long monologue in the script. Originally, they wanted to cast David Bowie for Wallace:


Wallace's character wasn't enough business-like imo to be this billionaire CEO / magnate.

Maybe an Asian actor (e.g. CEO of a Chinese conglomerate or the Shimago-Dominguez corporation from the original BR making a return?) would have helped here given the strong visual Asian influences in both BR and BR 2049.

- Soundtrack a little too bombastic. Liked the original Vangelis score better as I mentioned before.

But this is nitpicking on a really high level. Otherwise, the movie was a perfect sequel against all odds.

- How many good blockbuster sequels have there been recently? Mostly quick cash grabs (especially in the SF genre with Robocop, Total Recall etc.)

- How many good cult movie sequels have there been, given that BR didn't even require a sequal? Again, mostly cash grabs.

On top of that, Blade Runner bombed in 1982. Therefore: No spin-offs, no visibility among younger audiences, except for cult movie audiences and some movie buffs. But that's not enough to make a return on a $150-200M sequel (the projected budget of BR 2049) three decades later.

To make a sequel with a huge budget 35 years later was a huge risk. It's just sad to see that Transformers 5 probably ends up making more money than BR 2049.

To quote Sapper, it's a miracle that Blade Runner 2049 exists the way it exits - slow pacing, 163 minutes runtime, very few action sequences, R rating etc.

As I wrote before: BR 2049 is an arthouse movie with a blockbuster budget. No wonder I wasn't the only one thinking of Stalker (1979) and similar classics:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/7/16418780/movie-of-week-stalker-tarkovsky-blade-runner

BR 2049 has Tarkovsky and Kubrick influences written all over it.

Finally, the CGI very well integrated, it doesn't feel tacky and there are still many miniatures and real sets used. A believable world. In short, a masterpiece for SF cinema.

Only reason I don't give it a 10 / 10? Too fresh to tell if it deserves that final star. I think it could become a cult masterpiece - like the original - in 10 or 20 years. Time will tell...

Regarding your last spoiler comment and adding some more spoiler questions myself:

- Luv is the henchwoman (main assistant to Wallace). I think you refer to Mariette, the prostitute in your last comment. She appears to be human, maybe another cover? But as a prostitute, she is likely an outcast among humans (social status), therefore more likely to support the replicant rebels?

The rebels (especially leader Freysa) portraits appear to be a homage to the first Matrix movie imho, with sunglasses and overall clothing style.

Speaking of The Matrix, I love how BR 2049 sends us on the wrong path. K is the „chosen one“? No, he is not:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/9/16433088/blade-runner-2049-spoilers-review

I loved how that all-too-obvious plot twist turns out to be wrong. The female memory maker's role is well hidden until the end. It also makes K's character much more tragic.

Even after watching the movie for a second time, there are some unanswered questions / ambiguous scenes:

- Bees need flowers? Some suggested that the bees in Las Vegas indicate that Deckard put the flowers on Rachels' grave. I think this is quite a weak connection, maybe I missed a hint.

At least I got another explanation for the bees now: The bees offer a flashback to the original BR, namely Deckard's interrogation of Rachel, the VK test. He asks her about reacting to a wasp crawling up her arm. K has a very different reaction to the bee than Rachel in the VK test.

Here's the scene with commentary:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/movies/denis-villeneuve-interview-blade-runner-2049.html

Beautiful, dream-like. Loved it.

- Why is there an LAPD ash tray (with what looks like rather fresh cigarettes) in the scene where K looks at the book with the missing pages. K nods as he sees the ash tray, there must be some significance.

- There's also a lot of old testament stuff in the story (Moses, Exodus, hidden child...also the Galantians reference, now the generic names "Joi" and "Luv" make more sense, details here: https://www.vox.com/2017/10/3/16403178/blade-runner-2049-review-bible-gosling-villeneuve-spoilers ) that I somehow missed the first time.

Thanks for any feedback.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: rhett7660 and Huntn
I just watched it for a second time. My advice. Watch it in 2D and with a good sound system (I think 3D doesn't help, too many dark scenes in BR 2049).

I still give it a 9/10.

Only downside from me:

- If there's one weaker performance, it's god-like Wallace. Jared Leto is overacting, but maybe that's wanted when you hear directorDenis' job description / casting call and the long monologues in the script. Originally, they wanted to cast David Bowie for Wallace:


Wallace's character wasn't enough business-like imo to be this billionaire CEO / magnate.
Maybe an Asian actor (e.g. CEO of a Chinese coonglomerate or the Shimago-Dominguez corporation from the original BR making a return strong would have helped) would have helped here given the strong visual Asian influences in both BR and BR 2049.

- Soundtrack a little too bombastic. Liked the original Vangelis score better as I mentioned before.

But this is nitpicking on a really high level. Otherwise, the movie was a perfect sequel against all odds.

- How many good block buster sequels have there been recently? Mostly quick cash grabs.
- How many good cult movie sequels have there been, given that BR didn't even require a sequal? Again, mostly cash grabs.

On top of that, Blade Runner bombed in 1982. No spin-offs, no visibility among younger audiences, except for cult movie audience and movie buffs. But that's not enough to make a return on a $150-200M movie (the projected budget of BR 2049).

To make a sequel with a huge budget 35 years later was a huge risk. It's just sad to see that Transformers 5 probably ends up making more money than BR 2049.

To quote Sapper, it's a miracle that Blade Runner 2049 exists the way it exits - slow pacing, 163 minutes runtime, very few action sequences etc.

As I mentioend before: An arthouse movie with a blockbuster budget. No wonder I wasn't the only one reminded of Stalker (1979) and similar classics:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/7/16418780/movie-of-week-stalker-tarkovsky-blade-runner

BR 2049 has Tarkovsky and Kubrick influences written all over it.

Regarding your last spoiler comment and adding some more spoiler questions myself:

- Luv is the henchwoman (main assistant to Wallace). I think you refer to Mariette, the prostitute in your last comment. She appears to be human, maybe another cover? But as a prostitute, she is likely an outcast in society, therefore more likely to support the replicant rebels?

The rebels (especially leader Freysa) portraits appear to be a homage to the first Matrix movie imho, with sunglasses and overall clothing style.

Speaking of The Matrix, I love how BR 2049 sends us on the wrong path. K is the chosen one? No, he is not:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/9/16433088/blade-runner-2049-spoilers-review

I loved how that all-too-obvious plot twist turns out to be wrong. The female memory maker's role is well hidden until the end. It also makes K's character much more tragic.

Even after watching the movie for a second time, there are some unanswered questions / ambiguous scenes:

- Bees need flowers? Some suggested that the bees in Las Vegas indicate that Deckard put the flowers on Rachels' grave. I think this is quite a weak connection, maybe I missed a hint.

In addition, the the bees offer a flashback to the original BR, namely Deckard's interrogation of Rachel, the VK test in the original. He asks her about a wasp crawling up her arm. K has a very different reaction to the animal than Rachel.

Here's the scene with commentary:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/movies/denis-villeneuve-interview-blade-runner-2049.html

Beautiful, dream-like. Loved it.

- Why is there a LAPD ash tray (with what looks like fresh cigarettes) in the scene where K looks at the book with the missing pages. K nods as he sees the ash try, there must be some significance.

- There's also a lot of old testament stuff in the story (Moses, Exodus, hidden child...also the Galantians reference, now the generic names "Joi" and "Luv" make more sense, details here: ) that I somehow missed the first time.

Thanks for any feedback.

Reference BR2049:
Thanks for the Mariette correction. I’ve updated my previous post. :)

Yes, it is a thoughtful, stylish, beautifully filmed piece of art. Unlike typical action films, which arguably rely on too much action, this movie plods along in a stylish way. Imo, too much time is devoted to the main plot, the movie would have greatly benefited from being tightened up, which can be difficult for many directors. As is for most people, I think you have to be vested in the original movie to enjoy it, although there could be exceptions. ;) I was surprised and delighted at just how strong the connection was to the original movie, but keep reading.

The flower at the grave is a direct connection to Deckard in Vegas, with his bees, no argument. We can wonder where the plants are, that the bees live on. :)

The Matrix comparison- except Neo was the chosen one. It’s possible that K could be revived for the next movie. ;)

I found the following article helpful, that Wallace was trying to manipulate Deckard into thinking he was a replicant, but Deckard did not fall for it. I found the scene where Wallace kills the newly born replicant to be disturbing.
http://screenrant.com/blade-runner-2049-rachael-deckard-daughter-backstory-explained/

This movie is not what I expected. While I was thrilled about the focus on Deckard and Rachel, I was expecting a big picture story that involved the owner of a powerful corporation plotting to use replicants to take over the world or something like that. I was dissapointed, that practically the total focus of the movie was the plodding search for Deckard and Rachel’s child, although I find K’s story poignant and sad. Tighter editing would have been better, much better.

I still support the notion that birthing baby replicants would not speed up the production of replicants, if you have to wait for them to grow up, unless they grow up unusually fast, or the production of a replicant takes a decade per copy.

Another link: :D
Blade Runner 2049 spoilers: 5 crucial unanswered questions
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/blade-runner-2049-spoilers-5-crucial-unanswered-questions/
 
Last edited:
Yes, it was a nice twist / turn how BR2049 (after about 2 hours in) almost made a little fun (but in a sad and tragic way) of the entire "chosen one" plot in The Matrix.

And there's so much left open on purpose:

Is, for example, Wallace himself a replicant?

As many readers certainly know, the original BR had scenes where the "real" Tyrell was in cryo chamber etc., later cut due to budget restraints:

David Peoples explains that "The cryonic chamber sequence was one of the things Hampton hadn't wanted to write, I think. But Ridley really wanted that in. So what I came up with was scene where Sebastian takes Roy into this huge frozen room and you see the real Tyrell lying in state in a capsule. J.F. tells Roy Tyrell had suffered a fatal disease, so he'd had himself frozen to wait for a cure. Roy then tells Sebastian to wake him up. But J.F. breaks down and confesses that he screwed up somehow in the past and accidentally killed the real Tyrell while the guy was in frozen suspension. Then Batty freaks out and smears Sebastian all over the wall of this crypt.

http://curiousconstructs.com/bladerunner/lost/BRL-Tyrell.html

(Also other parallels to Tyrell. His eyes got crushed in the original, Wallace is blind)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn
Detailed discussion of the movie here for those who can‘t get enough of BR 2049:


(Warning: Full of spoilers).
 
Yeah Leto was the only weak part.

I like that Gaff does the same thing in this story that he did in the first but only people who have dissected the first will understand the important part he plays in both stories ;)
[doublepost=1507813332][/doublepost]
Is, for example, Wallace himself a replicant?

As many readers certainly know, the original BR had scenes where the "real" Tyrell was in cryo chamber etc., later cut due to budget restraints:


)

Yes originally the Tyrell killed by Batty was a replicant and he discovers the real Tyrell in cryosleep on the top floor. But they never shot the scene due to the famous budget problems.

In the sequel they might have forgotten that replicants eyes are supposed to glow a little in the dark. In this case Wallace is blind so the glow wouldn’t be seen but I didn’t notice it anywhere else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn
I didn't see this being mentioned before. Some additional background:

1) Poetry / Philosophy questions

When Blade Runner 2049 begins, K is literally asleep at the wheel, and he doesn’t even consider the old-model replicant Sapper Morton his own kind, he passes the baseline test. But the handbook becomes a poem. By the film’s end, K rejects Niander Wallace’s idea of replicants as a “product,” he rejects Freysa’s commitment to war between species, he rejects Joshi’s notion that there’s a “wall” between beings. “We’re all just looking out for what’s real,” Joshi tells K. And what’s real to K is love.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/10/14/the-poetry-of-blade-runner-2049 (Warning: Major spoilers in link)

2) The original script for the sequel had an even darker ending:

Fancher: Well, I didn’t before but I do now — because of your ending. In my script, Deckard died at the end, but you have him live.

The first time Ridley and I ever considered doing a second “Blade Runner,” in 1986 or whatever it was, I came up with an idea about Deckard and his next job — and it’s kind of horrifying what happens in my little fantasy.

Now that Deckard lives, that idea is back in my head. But I’m not going to tell you what it is.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...-runner-screenwriters-20171009-htmlstory.html

So that answer leaves one additional avenue open for a third movie one day.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn
Ok, I just went to see BR2049 a third time, this time in 3D (watched it in 2D the first two times).

3D doesn't add much to this movie and some details / sharpness gets lost in dark(er) scenes. One nice scene in 3D is Deckard's first appearance with his gun...but that's about it.

Anyway, this post is about something else: Am I crazy to go watch a movie three times?

I haven't done this - seeing a movie more than once during its original run - since The Matrix (the first one in the weakening trilogy). In the case of the Matrix, I mainly went to see it again because of the visuals - for BR2049 I returned because of almost everything:

Story, prop and worldbuilding details, sounds and overall the visuals - both the camera work with slow pacing as well as the well-embedded CGI (the JOI hologram scenes such as the one below in particular !):

zwn5xogsmnnkufqfebmg.png


My advice or even plea (LOL) is to go watch BladeRunner 2049 in IMAX or the biggest 2D screen possible - a good sound system is also important.

But, more generally, go see this movie in a theatre before it disappears. This is a movie that begs to be viewed on a large movie screen. (Yes, I'm repeating myself here :)

It's not just about BladeRunner 2049 or the SF genre. If this movie bombs we will get more weak sequels and dumb cash-grab action flicks.

Movie lovers should support visual works of art with some intelligence, these are qualities even rarer today in most Hollywood's sequels - BladeRunner 2049 proved that a blockbuster miracle with art-house quality visuals is still possible.

Otherwise, we will get what we deserve: Fast & Furious 27, Transformers 9...

Summary: Do your part and support intelligent SF cinema while you can.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ActionableMango
Well I saw it at the theatre and loved it. A worthy sequel - some nitpicks but overall really enjoeyd it.

Now I want Joi instead of Siri. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: obeygiant
Saw the film yesterday. I think I need to go see it again...

Responding to Huntn:

So was Mariette, who claimed to be a real girl, a human and was she just working for the replicant resistance? ;)

I immediately and unequivocally read Mariette as a replicant - just a basic pleasure model - just a later "sister" of Pris. I guess though in the big picture it doesn't really matter replicant or human.

I see the comment about a "real girl" to be distinguishing between a hologram and an organic being. Then there's the later talk of electronic versus DNA: Do you want your pleasure model programmed in binary or in quaternary? Does it matter?
 
About a plot element:

The female memory maker lives in a bio-isolation chamber - ostensibly because of an immune disorder. However, what if she were placed there not to keep outside bio-threats out, but to keep her own biology in? In other words, what better way to hide someone who's biology you want to keep secret? In a possible sequel, she'd need to have a baby, something a bit, um, difficult if she remains isolated. Thus, she doesn't really have an immune disorder.

And a minor point: There's a prohibition on implanting real human memories in replicants. But replicant memories get around that rule!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jkcerda
Spoiler

Saw the film yesterday. I think I need to go see it again...

Responding to Huntn:

I immediately and unequivocally read Mariette as a replicant - just a basic pleasure model - just a later "sister" of Pris. I guess though in the big picture it doesn't really matter replicant or human.

I see the comment about a "real girl" to be distinguishing between a hologram and an organic being. Then there's the later talk of electronic versus DNA: Do you want your pleasure model programmed in binary or in quaternary? Does it matter?

I can agree to that possibility. The real girl comment is simply interesting and we know she is working for the RR (replicant resistance, my phrase :)), and the phrase was used in the context of him having a hologram girl friend, but because in this story replicants are not considered to be “real” either, we don’t know if the comment was a true statement (real human girl), comparison with a hologram or misdirection.
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.