The benchmarks I've seen show the Iris Pro in the 2015 MBP actually competing against the GeForce 750.
I suspect the PS4's OpenGL version is much more modern than the ancient version Apple is still using.
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Blizzard's Upcoming Game 'Overwatch' Won't Be Coming to OS X
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I suspect the PS4's OpenGL version is much more modern than the ancient version Apple is still using.
Look. Apple has updated to OpenGL 3.1 with Lion and 4.1 With Mavericks.
Blizzard still uses OpenGL 2.1 in their OS X engines. So Apple is behind in their implementation but it's not like Blizzard was in any hurry to update their engines even to Apple's latest offerings.
The reason given for this during the years by the official Mac guys in the Blizzard forums was that Open GL 3.1 or 4.1 does not give them any performance enhancements or visual quality changes to make it worth updating.
So when someone says that Apple should have updated to Open GL 4.5 long ago, it's not like this magically would have solved all the issues people have with Mac gaming. The problem was not only Open GL versions, it was the implementation in OS X.
Blizzard still uses OpenGL 2.1 in their OS X engines. So Apple is behind in their implementation but it's not like Blizzard was in any hurry to update their engines even to Apple's latest offerings.
The reason given for this during the years by the official Mac guys in the Blizzard forums was that Open GL 3.1 or 4.1 does not give them any performance enhancements or visual quality changes to make it worth updating.
So when someone says that Apple should have updated to Open GL 4.5 long ago, it's not like this magically would have solved all the issues people have with Mac gaming. The problem was not only Open GL versions, it was the implementation in OS X.
Stop being a fanboy. Opengl is way behind and one of the reasons apple doesn't update so it won't **** up osx desktop style that they already had. As for metal, apples true goal behind it isn't really on the viewpoint that most console/PC developers when it comes to deving. They have to port code, make it work on all platforms, time of development and ease.
Nobody would want to spend millions and take up the job on doing that on a platform that is already being deserted by games due to apples bs on not keeping up with open standards for them trying to play catchup with their own guinine ship when other platforms have already establish something that despite being behind (directx11 and below) it still works and there's a huge market for it.
Peace.
Not enough people play games on Macs. It costs money to port the game to Macs. They're a business. They don't want to spend the money to do so. Same reason Apple charges the Apple tax. They're trying to make money.
Even if I concede that Apple's hardware has historically been this slow on the GPU side (I won't. It's never been super high end but it has never been this bad either) this doesn't matter. Apple needs to put better GPU's in their products. In addition, Apple just put Retina displays in which needs 4x the GPU compute power to drive in games, roughly. This means the need for higher end graphics is higher than ever.
On top of that, it's simply not true. My 2011 MacBook Pro still has faster graphics than any of the MacBook Pro's on sale right now except the highest end model, and that highest end model barely has 50% more graphics power than mine does. It has slightly more, but it is very slightly. Instead, Apple focused on thinness, which is fine for some segments but not for people who want a good GPU.
Apple cannot put better GPU's in iMacs, can they? They already use the highest end mobile GPU available at the time of release. Since they won't switch to a desktop GPU in iMacs, that's the end of line there. Mac Pro when released used the fastest available AMD workstation GPU's, underclocked slightly. I think this was a good idea to preserve the low thermal envelope and noise floor with minimal loss. 2006 Mac Pro released in August came with X1900XT, released in January 2006 (7 months old). 2008 Mac Pro came with 8800GT, (2 years old and not the highest end even then). 2010 Mac Pro came with Radeon 5870, one year old at the time and the nMP came with a pair of 7870, 1 year old at the time.
When you go back to G5 days, the GPU's were more recent, but the top of the line models were never used. For example 2005 G5 shipped with 7800GT, a 6 month old GPU, but the 7800GTX was available 2 months before the GT, with 25% more performance.
Sounds like Apple's mistake here. They're supposed to be the guys pushing for OpenGL!
It's true that Macs tend to have underpowered GPUs compared to other PCs, but you don't need a top-end iMac to be able to play new games reasonably well. Having a relatively powerful GPU for games was much more important in the 2000s and 90s, and it seems like most things will do nowadays.
Well, they COULD just stop being stupid and add an option for desktop-class GPUs in their iMacs and Mac minis. Maybe "stupid" isn't the right word since they've probably decided their current strategy is profit-maximizing, but I feel like it's turning away too many people, so I'm questioning their decision. I wonder how many people want a mid-range desktop Mac, like a Mac Pro but with consumer parts like an i7, GTX 970, non-ECC DDR4 RAM...
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So, you have totally missed that Metal is a part of OS X since version 10.11 ”El Capitan”?
https://developer.apple.com/metal/
Absolutely true; their implementation of 4.1 is still not even complete and Metal is based on ES 3.1, which is even older.
How do you know that Metal is based on ES 3.1? Can I read more about it somewhere?
It might be pathetic if you mean performance compared to high end cards, but not pathetic considering the thermal and physical constraints of most iMacs. I mean look how gigantic high end desktop GPUs are, the power they draw, and the size of their fans and heatsinks. You're acting like apple picks mobile GPUs to hurt your feelings
Apple designs a computer that looks great, is very thin, and the result is compromised performance. They can only choose components that fit the design. They do not even choose GPUs that can drive the retina screens at native resolutions. It's all just looks and eye candy, with hardware that struggles to drive the base configuration. Pre retina machines were much better at faking.
And yes, in terms of performance offered in 2015 in the GPU segment, the offerings by apple are pathetic. The 7970 as a top end is a joke.
It's simple, you do not buy a Mac to game.
This attitude is a very common problem with native application development on OSX. Basically, you're admitting that the computer you bought has a defective OS requires a hidden $200 fee to replace it with a working one. You are also not supporting native development in the future. It's basically a chicken/egg situation where developers don't want to support native OS X development at all because bootcamp is so easy and native application development take time/effort.
I think we can all agree that if the games were universally available and run as well as they under Windows we wouldn't boot into Windows. Hold these parties (Apple and developers) up to support our OS! Sometimes I wish that Bootcamp wasn't so easy...
You mean they could release a different iMac, bigger and thicker with desktop GPU inside, for how many people to buy exactly? Btw iMacs already have desktop CPU's.
Chicken and egg statement there. I am a gamer and would love to play it on my Mac but Blizzard isn't releasing them on Mac. If they have done so there will be more Mac gamers.
Uh, that happened a long time ago... soldered RAM in laptops AND desktops? Ridiculous.
I don't think I'm admitting anything about having a defective OS.
Firstly, if you want to play Overwatch, or any high intensive gaming, you shouldn't even buy a Mac to begin with. There are thousand of articles on the internet, with supporting evidence (e.g. benchmarks) that states Windows is better than OSX in gaming. Can you deny that? Mac's strong point isn't gaming anyways. I'm certain that people are aware of this when they buy a Mac. That has nothing to say OSX is defective. I'm just saying OSX has its strength and weaknesses, and gaming is a weakness.
Secondly, okay you chose a Mac you say, fine. I have a Mac too. And if you want to play intensive gaming, then you either have to bear with OSX's inferior performance, or install Windows/Bootcamp, which I'm proposing the latter.
Judging from what I read in the article, and thinking about it, it's safe to say Apple needs to address this if they were to ensure good gaming performance in OSX.
But now you're given a choice for bootcamp, and you say you wish bootcamp installation shouldn't be this easy? What????
Here's a good read about Blizzard's current Mac team. This is from an MVP poster in WoW Mac Technical Support forums. Remember, these people do not work in Blizzard HQ.
"Right now, Blizzard's only real hope of filling any Metal related positions is to poach iOS developers from somewhere else and get those new recruits acclamated to how things operate at Blizzard. Even if that started now, it would be months before we saw anything concrete out of the newly expanded Mac team.
You need to keep in mind that Blizzard has lost Mac talent over the years and not been able to gain that back. When we lost Tigerclaw, that really shifted a lot of the weight over to the remaining few members of the Mac team. Metal is a new API as far as OS X is concerned. Several game companies have the API in hand, but not one of them has a fully functional Metal enabled product yet despite many of them having larger Mac teams than what remains at Blizzard.
Just about the only way Blizzard will see a realistic ROI with new recruits is by pulling iOS developers into the fold, as there isn't much of a pool of OpenGL + Metal developers to draw from. Blizzard has known Metal was on its way for some time now, and unfortunately recruitment hasn't gone well. As such, with the Mac team currently servicing six games with what is essentially a skeleton crew, all while also servicing Windows clients too, I can't see much of a way for them to expand into a seventh game client right now.
Yes, some of the requirements for hiring are "unicorn" requirements, but there is also the fact that iOS development is often easier, faster, and much more lucrative to individuals than joining even a AAA game developer like Blizzard, so enticing them is rather difficult to say the least. It may even be at a point where the ROI just on hiring isn't there simply because Blizzard may end up having to offer too much to see any net gains from the new members in terms of profit.
As you can see, it isn't a simple "black and white" or "cut and dry" scenario. There's tons of grey in there and it's more complicated than you are giving credit for. Omegal and I gripe about the quality of the Mac clients, which has been on the decline for several years now due to the continual exodus of Mac capable programmers, both privately and publicly, but we both know that the people here at Blizzard are working as hard as they can to keep what they have going up and running for us. Things might be different to a degree if Blizzard weren't merged wiht Activision, which as a parent company is beholden to share holders and thus has a rather significant say in what happens fiscally.
Programmers are easy to find. Programmers that can code for OS X are a fair bit rarer. Programmers that can code for OS X and specialize in OpenGL are even harder to find. Programmers that can code for OS X, are good with OpenGL, and can make the transition to Metal are needles in a haystack being thrown around in a tornado."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19580947919?page=5
"Right now, Blizzard's only real hope of filling any Metal related positions is to poach iOS developers from somewhere else and get those new recruits acclamated to how things operate at Blizzard. Even if that started now, it would be months before we saw anything concrete out of the newly expanded Mac team.
You need to keep in mind that Blizzard has lost Mac talent over the years and not been able to gain that back. When we lost Tigerclaw, that really shifted a lot of the weight over to the remaining few members of the Mac team. Metal is a new API as far as OS X is concerned. Several game companies have the API in hand, but not one of them has a fully functional Metal enabled product yet despite many of them having larger Mac teams than what remains at Blizzard.
Just about the only way Blizzard will see a realistic ROI with new recruits is by pulling iOS developers into the fold, as there isn't much of a pool of OpenGL + Metal developers to draw from. Blizzard has known Metal was on its way for some time now, and unfortunately recruitment hasn't gone well. As such, with the Mac team currently servicing six games with what is essentially a skeleton crew, all while also servicing Windows clients too, I can't see much of a way for them to expand into a seventh game client right now.
Yes, some of the requirements for hiring are "unicorn" requirements, but there is also the fact that iOS development is often easier, faster, and much more lucrative to individuals than joining even a AAA game developer like Blizzard, so enticing them is rather difficult to say the least. It may even be at a point where the ROI just on hiring isn't there simply because Blizzard may end up having to offer too much to see any net gains from the new members in terms of profit.
As you can see, it isn't a simple "black and white" or "cut and dry" scenario. There's tons of grey in there and it's more complicated than you are giving credit for. Omegal and I gripe about the quality of the Mac clients, which has been on the decline for several years now due to the continual exodus of Mac capable programmers, both privately and publicly, but we both know that the people here at Blizzard are working as hard as they can to keep what they have going up and running for us. Things might be different to a degree if Blizzard weren't merged wiht Activision, which as a parent company is beholden to share holders and thus has a rather significant say in what happens fiscally.
Programmers are easy to find. Programmers that can code for OS X are a fair bit rarer. Programmers that can code for OS X and specialize in OpenGL are even harder to find. Programmers that can code for OS X, are good with OpenGL, and can make the transition to Metal are needles in a haystack being thrown around in a tornado."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/19580947919?page=5