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Blizzard's Upcoming Game 'Overwatch' Won't Be Coming to OS X
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this is bs. he is constantly using metal as an excuse.
blizzard could have easily hired mac devs that know open gl.
overwatch doesn´t need metal api. it would absolutely need opengl because that's how u reach all mac users. and if they have spare resources they can add the metal api in the future.
it will feel weird for all those who play heroes of the storm on mac because they won't be familiar with the overwatch universe.
the decision to not make overwatch for mac is shortsighted and the loyal blizzard mac fanbase will feel alienated, insulted, disconnected and will be constantly reminded of this fact whenever they play heroes of the storm.
i know i will never support activision-blizzard again. no more money from me and no more recommending.
Every OS has pros and cons , the con of OS X is gaming . If you bought an expansive Apple computer to game on, you made a mistake. The best machine they had were the pre retina Units and old Mac pros if you intended to game.
According to very optimistic benchmarks (with questionable testing methodology) Iris Pro 6200 is about 15% slower than desktop 750 (non-Ti). Keep in mind that this is on a desktop-class (65W) Broadwell CPU. The upcoming mobile part may be slower still. Now, Intel claims that 6200 is 20% faster than 5200, used in the current MBP15.
So there you go. The moment you start comparing Iris Pro to any desktop card, it stops looking so impressive (which is probably why no review does it).
Also PS4 does not use OpenGL.
With Dota2, the source2 engine (in its current state) can use OpenGL versions newer than 2.1 on OSX, but with completely unaccpetable performance. Not so on linux. So I absolutely agree with what you are saying, OSX's implementation must be poor. Considering the work nvidia/ati/intel are putting into vulkan drivers/libraries on windows and linux right now, its would be a shame for none of that code base to ever reach OSX. Provided it was implemented well.
I can understand Apple going with metal for now to have a low level API on iOS/OSX to squeeze a bit more performance out. But for the sake of ubiquitous gaming across platforms, Vulkan will be the answer in the near future, just hope Apple dont hold out on it while trying to sell metal as their only decent solution, instead of allowing vendors to create drivers supporting both on osx.
First: A machine with integrated graphics shouldn't be called "Pro" as in MacBook Pro. More like MacBook garbage if you need it for serious video-editing or gaming.
Let's list the issues with the current state of gaming on the Mac
Personal experience
I'm using a maxed out late '13 iMac (1 TB PCI-E SSD, 780m GT, 32 GB RAM, 3.5 GHz i7). When I look at my iStat menus monitor, the max GPU-memory and GPU-processor utilization almost never cross 25% of their max. The OpenGL Driver Monitor DevApp confirms this behavior. The fans in my iMac almost never make any noise, so that means there is a problem there somewhere. If my GPU would be taxed to the max, gaming experience would be way better. I'm not dreaming about 4 times the current framerate, but 2 times the current framerate should definitely be possible with better GPU utilization.
With 10.11.1 I also installed the nVidia driver on my iMac and found a 2% benchmark and 2% World of Warcraft performance increase. It isn't much, but for something that's just enabled and still in beta, I'm pretty happy. I have yet to test other games and try the driver on my '12 MBP.
Integrated graphics
You may argue that in some benchmarks integrated graphics get pretty close to dedicated (mobile) GPUs. This is true, but benchmarks usually don't handle every aspect a graphics card needs very well. Integrated graphics still have troubles with advanced shadows and lightning. The graphics core Apple is using in their iOS hardware may even be as fast if not faster in benchmarks than integrated graphics. Why? Well, because those chips are optimized for a smaller set of specific tasks, but there are a lot of tasks they don't run that well.
Apple's search for talent
It's not like Apple has been sitting on the couch. For years there are many open jobs for "GPU Driver Engineer" and "GPU performance Engineer". It's not just 2 jobs in that direction, but at least 20 that should contribute to better GPU performance in OS X. Think of 20 engineers working full time on improving the GPU drivers in OS X, that would help a lot. And than I'm not even talking about OpenGL engineers and other people that could contribute well if Apple only got the people for it.
Let's list the issues with the current state of gaming on the Mac
- The lesser expansive Apple products all have integrated (garbage) graphics.
- OpenGL isn't up to date. Although not always a major issue, Feral complained 2 years ago that they had trouble porting games to OS X because of missing features in newer OpenGL versions.
- Graphic drivers are not optimized.
- Mac gaming never got any attention from Apple, Steve always said we shouldn't need games, so why help the platform.
- Metal is a nice attempt, but so far I haven't seen a single application (other than the OS X graphics core) taking advantage of it. It's mostly complex and may only add benchmark performance.
Personal experience
I'm using a maxed out late '13 iMac (1 TB PCI-E SSD, 780m GT, 32 GB RAM, 3.5 GHz i7). When I look at my iStat menus monitor, the max GPU-memory and GPU-processor utilization almost never cross 25% of their max. The OpenGL Driver Monitor DevApp confirms this behavior. The fans in my iMac almost never make any noise, so that means there is a problem there somewhere. If my GPU would be taxed to the max, gaming experience would be way better. I'm not dreaming about 4 times the current framerate, but 2 times the current framerate should definitely be possible with better GPU utilization.
With 10.11.1 I also installed the nVidia driver on my iMac and found a 2% benchmark and 2% World of Warcraft performance increase. It isn't much, but for something that's just enabled and still in beta, I'm pretty happy. I have yet to test other games and try the driver on my '12 MBP.
Integrated graphics
You may argue that in some benchmarks integrated graphics get pretty close to dedicated (mobile) GPUs. This is true, but benchmarks usually don't handle every aspect a graphics card needs very well. Integrated graphics still have troubles with advanced shadows and lightning. The graphics core Apple is using in their iOS hardware may even be as fast if not faster in benchmarks than integrated graphics. Why? Well, because those chips are optimized for a smaller set of specific tasks, but there are a lot of tasks they don't run that well.
Apple's search for talent
It's not like Apple has been sitting on the couch. For years there are many open jobs for "GPU Driver Engineer" and "GPU performance Engineer". It's not just 2 jobs in that direction, but at least 20 that should contribute to better GPU performance in OS X. Think of 20 engineers working full time on improving the GPU drivers in OS X, that would help a lot. And than I'm not even talking about OpenGL engineers and other people that could contribute well if Apple only got the people for it.
I don't think you understood what he was saying. He's saying that the skeleton mac team is "BUSY" with porting all their current engines to Metal. That'll take some time with a couple people doing all the work. So they cannot port another engine to Open GL or to Metal.
Blizzard said that they will enable metal for World of Warcraft in 2015, and Diablo3/SC2 in early 2016. So they are really busy with porting their games to Metal right now.
And there is no decision to not make Overwatch to OS X. I can assure you that eventually we'll have an Overwatch client on Mac. It just will be delayed, and Blizzard does not want to promise any timeline for it, so they are saying "it's not for OS X". But this part is just my opinion.
and i don´t think you even read what i wrote. what part of could have hired more devs don´t u understand? u think they didn´t hire new ppl for pc/ps4/xbone overwatch?
don´t repeat the same things over and over. i've read what he wrote ages ago and i know all the false little details and big lies.
and your opinion...your optimistic speculation...i heard it before. you know what it means IF they release it later? mac users start from the bottom and can´t catch up to pc users experience and possibly ingame currency.
If you checked Blizzard mac forums for the last 3 years, you would have seen that there's always posts for hiring. They cannot find people, simple as that. Blizzard cannot hire more developers, nobody wants to work for them, or they are asking for way too much so there's nobody with the required qualifications. Whatever the reason, they COULDN'T HIRE MORE DEVELOPERS FOR 3 YEARS EVEN THOUGH THEY TRIED.
If you know someone who'd want to apply, tell him to go to the forums, and read the post concerning hires.
Here's a link:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14059366060?page=2
The post is called "ENGINEERS WANTED".
i simply don´t believe no mac devs in the world would apply for a job at blizz. it's too unlikely.
1) wwdc exists
2) it's sold out in minutes
edit:
from the blizzard entertainment wikipedia:
Number of employees
4,700 (As of 2012)
i'd say they have more ppl now. just to put things in perspective.
C'mon Blizzard, I've been defending your games against criticism for years, and your broad platform support is one of my key arguments. Don't take that away from me...
While game developer Blizzard has a long-standing history of bringing its games to OS X in addition to Windows, the developer today confirmed at its BlizzCon fan convention that it will not be bringing its new game, Overwatch, to OS X, according to Polygon.
Overwatch game director Jeff Kaplan confirmed the news, acknowledging that the company has longstanding support for Apple's computers. However, Kaplan says the company focused its efforts on Windows due to the "technology behind Macs."Kaplan didn't specify what Mac technology was making it challenging for Blizzard to make the game for OS X, but Apple's support for graphics technologies such as Metal and OpenGL may be part of the reason. Some of the early developers who committed to Metal, such as Adobe, have backpedaled a bit as they work with the new technology. Apple has also been criticized for not adopting the most recent versions of OpenGL, which is also heavily relied upon in modern game development
Most recently, Blizzard launched free-to-play multiplayer online battle arena game Heroes of the Storm for Mac OS X on June 2, 2015.
(Thanks, Teyla!)
Article Link: Blizzard's Upcoming Game 'Overwatch' Won't Be Coming to OS X
So sick of Apple not supporting good 3D graphics on OS X.
Maybe it is time to switch back to Windows.
(Yeah, I dual-boot, but that gets really old, and I'd rather not pay the Apple premium for OS X if I'm not going to be using it.)
Maybe it is time to switch back to Windows.
(Yeah, I dual-boot, but that gets really old, and I'd rather not pay the Apple premium for OS X if I'm not going to be using it.)
The 2011 Macbook Pro used a 6770M. Even the Iris Pro should perform faster. I'm still not getting why everyone expects something like a 970M now when Apple has never put such dGPUs in their laptops.
First, quit with "Pro" and iGPUs. Plenty of people use devices equipped with iGPUs for productivity. There are plenty of engineers using Surface Pros, for example, for productivity and they all come with iGPUs.
Even an iPad is a professional device if it's used by a professional for professional use. What you are basically saying is that no device is professional unless it's designed for video editing and gaming.
Also, unless you forgo a comprarable display, pure PCIe SSD storage, form factor, and build quality you aren't going to get a dGPU for cheap on the windows side. Apple simply doesn't make a cheap plastic 2.5" thick laptop with a 1080p display and with a 970M for $1200. Nor does Apple make a 15" rMBP M370X with a 1080p display, 8GB RAM, and a HDD for $1300-$1500 which is what Dell does to make the entry cost cheaper for the XPS 15.
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Ok, so lets see...
The arguments so far are:
1) Apple is greedy and sucks because they won't make their OS game friendly
2) Blizzard is greedy and sucks because they won't make their games Mac friendly
3) Tim Cook is greedy
4) I'm a developer (no, really, I am) and Apple sucks because they treat developers like doggie do do.
5) I'm a developer (I really am, trust me) and you don't know how hard it is to be a developer (reference long nights and ignoring family) and Apple takes are* money and turns are* apps to doggie do do.
Does that about sum it up?
*This grammatical error was intentional
The arguments so far are:
1) Apple is greedy and sucks because they won't make their OS game friendly
2) Blizzard is greedy and sucks because they won't make their games Mac friendly
3) Tim Cook is greedy
4) I'm a developer (no, really, I am) and Apple sucks because they treat developers like doggie do do.
5) I'm a developer (I really am, trust me) and you don't know how hard it is to be a developer (reference long nights and ignoring family) and Apple takes are* money and turns are* apps to doggie do do.
Does that about sum it up?
*This grammatical error was intentional
Ok, so lets see...
The arguments so far are:
1) Apple is greedy and sucks because they won't make their OS game friendly
2) Blizzard is greedy and sucks because they won't make their games Mac friendly
3) Tim Cook is greedy
4) I'm a developer (no, really, I am) and Apple sucks because they treat developers like doggie do do.
5) I'm a developer (I really am, trust me) and you don't know how hard it is to be a developer (reference long nights and ignoring family) and Apple takes are* money and turns are* apps to doggie do do.
Does that about sum it up?
*This grammatical error was intentional
what's your point?
greed is the nature of these companies. that's why apple and blizzard are extremely rich. they don´t make the best games and computers for fun. they know this is an efficient way to strip ppl of their money.
are you saying it's not ok to criticise that? what side are u on?
the time where apple fanboys needed to defend apple against dumb pc users are gone. apple is the 800(0) pound gorilla now.
Thanks for sharing. I'll have a look. Even if they expect gods, maybe a demi-god will do just fine for now.
The nice thing about Metal, if I understand correctly, is that it's the same between OS X and iOS. You can write your shaders once and have them run on both platforms.
Then again, you could just use OpenGL ES 3 and I'm pretty sure that your shaders would work the same between OS X, iOS, WebGL, Android, Windows, etc...
That's interesting... Blizzard has been on my list of dream jobs for nearly 20 years now... I easily meet those requirements, and I meet some of the pluses, too.
The biggest problem is location. I just bought a house last week just north of Boston... they'd either need to allow me to work remotely or have some cushy traveling benefits or something for me to consider working in CA. They're just 20 minutes from my grandparents house... if they pay enough to cover regularly flying between LAX and Logan...
I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side.
Incidentally, I didn't imply anything. I merely listed the rundown of the arguments so far. As for my own opinion, some arguments I've seen here have merit but most arguments here are more about whining than anything else, which seems to be par for the course here at MacRumors lately. These whines can be broken down into the categories I've listed.
As to Apple's and Blizzard's greed, yes, they are. This is because the structure of the United States is set up to facilitate corporate greed due to the shared belief (and that's all it is) that greed is good and brings out the best in innovation and technology. It is highly improbable for a wildly successful company like Apple and Blizzard to make decisions that do anything other than facilitate that greed. All the criticism in the world will not change the system. The US is currently being organized in such a way that this system will remain firmly entrenched for at least the next 100 or so years. You have a choice: either except it, or move to a country that has a more progressive view of businesses (I suggest Europe, that's where I'm looking to move...hopefully).
Even worse: in real-world scenarios Metal performs worse than its OpenGL counterpart!
See: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/1...-os-x-el-capitan-sometimes-great-often-mixed/
Also, I don't think the 5K retina screens are a huge issue. I'm perfectly fine with playing games at 1440p rather than 2880p. It's a perfect subdivision so it looks good at that resolution.
However, despite that I agree that Apple needs to up their game on their graphics drivers. Even if they go Metal, they should still keep OpenGL up-to-date.
I also agree 100% that they need better GPUs.
I'm about to build a custom PC for the first time in over a decade so that I can have a system that will work well with Oculus Rift. I'm pretty bummed that I have to be doing this. I'm still a huge fan of OS X and I'm pretty disappointed that Apple is not keeping up in either software or hardware.
However, despite that I agree that Apple needs to up their game on their graphics drivers. Even if they go Metal, they should still keep OpenGL up-to-date.
I also agree 100% that they need better GPUs.
I'm about to build a custom PC for the first time in over a decade so that I can have a system that will work well with Oculus Rift. I'm pretty bummed that I have to be doing this. I'm still a huge fan of OS X and I'm pretty disappointed that Apple is not keeping up in either software or hardware.
... which is not on par with OpenGL 4.5, let alone the upcoming (well, sorry, not for Mac) Vulkan. FYI...