Blogger Victorious over Apple in Small Claims Case on NVIDIA GPU Failures

[dysamoria]

i'm sorry but in my eyes it is normal that if your warranty has passed, that they don't fix it anymore for free.

Not really hard to understand that to be honest.

You clearly don't understand that the product contained a known defective part. Known manufacturing defects of this kind are typically covered outside warranty due to the failure rates. It is in a manufacturer's best interests to ensure return customers. Refusing to be held accountable for a defect tends to eliminate repeat sales & spreads bad PR.

 

[charlieegan3]

Logged is just to thumbs up this post:

and thumbs down this post:

thanks, sounds like you have common sense too

 

[macbook pro i5]

Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.

*face palm*

 

[nikhsub1]

My 8600 has failed and been replace 3 times. I think I should sue.

 

[topmike]

Perhaps not. Often their 'quality program' repairs are based on an unacceptable number of whatever from a particular batch going bad. a BTO system might not have used that batch. They would know the serials that used those parts.

Also from reading his blog it sounds like he went in screaming that they needed to give him a whole new machine because his GPU which might have been fine, was the same kind as one that a batch had an issue. That's not how the game works. You don't get a brand new machine because one part is perhaps bad.

Also, when he took the machine in with an issue it wasn't the GPU but the logic board, which didn't have a quality program and his Apple Care was expired. But he decided to yell and scream that no they are idiots and lying that it was the logic board, he is an expert and he knows that the whole thing was from the GPU they didn't replace when he told them to give him a new machine some 2 years before. etc.

If the tone of his blog, which reads like he acted like a screaming asshat, is even close to the truth then I can see why Apple Care, Customer relations etc kept saying no to him. He was asking for things that are not part of the terms of the system. Truth is that this judge was possibly in the wrong because he didn't have all the facts regarding why the program existed etc but since it was just small claims court which maxes out at like $10k if that much, Apple wasn't likely to really care that much. If someone tries to use this case as precedent they can still bring out the big guns of the full facts.

[/QUOTE]


The 8600M had a 80-85% failure rate! However, according to the original lawsuit against nvidia, all GPUs were effected.

Despite Nvidia's claim that its graphics chip failures were limited to a certain number of chips manufactured for a certain number of notebooks, the Inquirer in July charged the company with masking the severity of the problem, alleging that "all the G84 and G86 parts are bad. Period. No exceptions."

if you read the Bloggers argument, he makes an interesting argument:

As the trial went on, I showed the judge evidence that the 8600M graphics cards were known to be defective, I showed him that I had an 8600M in my machine, and I explained to him that, despite their promise to do so, Apple refused to replace my board because it would not boot, and it would not boot because the 8600M had failed.

The judge accepted these explanations, and when he asked Apple what it would cost to replace my logic board if I paid in cash, I interjected and explained to the judge that if Apple replaced only the logic board, it would simply be another logic board with a defective GPU, therefore, such a solution would not be acceptable.

The judge responded by asking Apple if my machine could be fitted with a different GPU, and when they replied “No, that machine will only accept an 8600M GT”, the judge declared my make & model of MacBook Pro to be defective and unrepairable by any means.

Eventually, over the continued objections of the Apple folks (one of the guys kept arguing that I should give Apple one last chance to fix it), I was awarded a cash amount. The amount I was awarded is enough to replace the computer, which means that I should once again have a 17″ laptop. Assuming Apple actually pays me.

 

[oliversl]

Wow, in this case I'm not with Apple. Apple have some problems if they can not replace a notebook in this situation.

Maybe emailing Tim Cook could be a shorter path to the solution.

And let me guess who ended up winning more that everyone else: Apple Lawyers.

 

[ronwasserman]

And this is why Apple stock is declining and overall things are going to become flat. It's become a corporation run by lawyers and not creatives.

Same thing happened at Microsoft, GM, Ford etc.

 

[the8thark]

More people suing Apple over silly things, what else is new???

Over 170 minus votes for you. Wow. That has to be some kind of record for MR.

 

[codo]

This is a truly terrible customer experience, and not what I would expect from Apple.

I hope someone senior in the company picks this up, apologises and makes things right with Rex and all MBP owners expericining the issues.

 

[0098386]

If Apple could have replaced my logic board at no cost to themselves, then why in the hell did they drag this out for so long, and why did they send two people to court to try and make sure that I got absolutely nothing? Friends, this is a question I have been asking myself for three months, and it is a question that I do not have the answer to.

Way to make me want to stop buying Apple products.

 

[*LTD*]

And this is why Apple stock is declining and overall things are going to become flat. It's become a corporation run by lawyers and not creatives.

This remains to be seen. On the other hand, Apple has been getting *much* more praise recently, due mostly to Tim Cook's even-handed and more human approach to doing business. Something, quite frankly, which I'm not that thrilled about, but the effects of even that remain to be seen.

I do agree that this was an absolutely stupid move on Apple's part. QUITE contrary to the impression Tim Cook has been giving in regard to leadership -and really, everything comes down to leadership. I do, however, have more faith in Tim Cook to keep Apple aright and sailing in the right direction. He's already proven his value many times over.

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Way to make me want to stop buying Apple products.

This incident is still nothing in light of the overall satisfaction consumers have with Apple products - often by quite a wide margin.

But if it's one less person in line in front of me at the cash, then it's one less person in line. So be it.

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And this is why Apple stock is declining and overall things are going to become flat. It's become a corporation run by lawyers and not creatives.

Apple's stock has been rocketing toward 700 for some time now. Some said that wasn't possible. We're seeing it certainty is.

In all reason, this incident won't have that much effect in the grand scheme. Apple has such a strong product portfolio that they pull the tech world around by the nose at even the hint of a new iPhone or iPad. Apple just has way, way too much positive mindshare at this point.

Strength of product and ecosystem will get you very, very far.

 

[MacinDoc]

Bah. My $1,500 MSI laptop has been flawless for 18 months (and counting). People I follow on Twitter have had far more issues with their Macs, but to each his own. Or her, I suppose.

Your anecdotal experience is significantly different from any large-scale study done on the matter (for examples, surveys of hundreds of thousands of purchasers conducted by PC World and Consumer Reports). Apple laptops, in particular, are only half as likely as some competitors to require repair, and they have the best repair record (and for that matter, the best customer service rating) of any manufacturer in the industry.

Having said that, Apple's actions in this case are petty and downright stupid, and deserve a big thumbs down from consumers and from Apple's shareholders. To be honest, the manner in which Apple approached this case is completely incomprehensible to me.

 

[Zombie Acorn]

This incident is still nothing in light of the overall satisfaction consumers have with Apple products - often by quite a wide margin.

But if it's one less person in line in front of me at the cash, then it's one less person in line. So be it.

Companies like Apple can't really afford to think like this though, there are too many cheaper alternatives to allow their image to be tarnished. This is why they were so quick to respond to issues in China, the only thing that is keeping them on top is their perception as a quality company. When someone pays 4500 dollars for a unit that probably only costs Apple 500-600 to make they should be wiping his ass if he requires it.

 

[blow45]

Companies like Apple can't really afford to think like this though, there are too many cheaper alternatives to allow their image to be tarnished. This is why they were so quick to respond to issues in China, the only thing that is keeping them on top is their perception as a quality company. When someone pays 4500 dollars for a unit that probably only costs Apple 500-600 to make they should be wiping his ass if he requires it.

Well said.

Btw Rex sounds like a cool guy, always great to here of a David against a Goliath, and persistence pays off.

And to all the bozos here siding with apple on this one, you should thanking this guy instead for working for your rights too.

 

[Macboy Pro]

cheap computers break too you know, and more often.

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if you were this guy would you see $600 as a silly thing?

Exactly... Apple didn't seem to think it was silly. I'd be ticked if they treated me that was after buying a $4500 laptop. Apple spent $600 an hour on legal representation (or more). Really, really bad press for Apple.

 

[ezdz]

The gpu failed on my 2007 macbook pro, and Apple fixed it for free (warranty was over, and I don't have applecare). In my case they were able to run the nvidia test on it and they replaced the logic board. It's still using an 8600mGT but it's been running fine for the last 3 years. Guess I should have sued for a new computer since it's apparently doomed to fail?

 

[Macboy Pro]

Bah. My $1,500 MSI laptop has been flawless for 18 months (and counting). People I follow on Twitter have had far more issues with their Macs, but to each his own. Or her, I suppose.

Your running windows and declaring a flawless computer? You must not use it.

 

[*LTD*]

Companies like Apple can't really afford to think like this though, there are too many cheaper alternatives to allow their image to be tarnished. This is why they were so quick to respond to issues in China, the only thing that is keeping them on top is their perception as a quality company. When someone pays 4500 dollars for a unit that probably only costs Apple 500-600 to make they should be wiping his ass if he requires it.

Agreed! 100%.

As I commented earlier, this is completely shameful behaviour from Apple.

Some years ago, I was told by an Apple Genius who really did his job well, that "Fine print aside, we want a customer to first and foremost walk out of our store HAPPY."

THAT is Apple's credo. That is the ideal. Now, it can't happen 100% of the time, but for Apple to go out of their way to cause the polar opposite - that's not what Apple is about.

*Even if* Apple was in the right . . . you still don't let this get anywhere near litigation. Because then it's Apple against the Little Guy - the average consumer.

 

[Wondercow]

I know I'm late getting in here and it's probably already been said many times over the previous ten pages but....

What the hell Apple?! You could have replaced the defect for free? Seriously?!

 

[SBlue1]

Wow, this is so bad, especially if they could reparier it for free.

I had the worn out cable issue with my MacBook and they had my buy a new charger. If something is defective, especially with a premium device, repair it!

 

[usptact]

I have this MBP 2008. Had changed the logic board TWICE due to this same reason. However, it got replaced quickly and to no cost in iConcept in Bordeaux. My machine was long out of warranty and never had Apple care subscribed.

 

[faroZ06]

More people suing Apple over silly things, what else is new???

Shut it. The same thing happened to my 2006 iMac. The same exact thing. They gave me a defective computer, and I can't get it fixed (actually, it was NVIDIA's fault really).

 

[mentholiptus]

you shouldn't have to sue to get a repair

Sounds like the customer refused the repair...which would explain why it came to this. Apple offered to replace the parts, but he wanted his money back (probably long after the 30 day return period expired).

I brought my friend's MBP, which was two years out of warranty, to the genius bar a year ago to see how much it would cost to have it repaired when it started glitching out (assuming it'd be ~$600), and the genius said "this model has a bad nvidia card, so we'll repair it at no cost. Can you leave it with me for a few days so I can order the parts?". I told them it wasn't mine, gave them her number, and they sorted it out. They even seemed to ignore all the dents in the chassis (her kids dropped it on a hardwood floor a few times). A year later, it's running great. She gave it to her husband and bought a new iMac.

I have a feeling that this guy would only accept cash as a solution. Any time I or anyone I know has dealt with Apple, they've been extremely helpful. Twice they hooked me up when I was out of warranty even. I was expecting to pay for a repair, but they thanked me for being a return customer set me up at no cost.

Bummer this one had to come to this though. Maybe I've just been lucky. At the same time though, I have a hard time believing they chose to bully this guy. There has to be more to the story.

 

[tentales]

Ohh the rush to judgement and generalization by so many here. Take a step back everyone.

Maybe Rex kept insisting on a brand new MBP instead of just replacing the logic board. He didn't offer a transcript of the 3 phone conversations he had with Apple. Maybe his behavior was abrasive at the Genuis Bar or he was threatening legal action early on, so then both sides got their backs up and decided to escalate.

No one knows for sure. All we know is what he posts in his blogs, which are lengthy and sound whiny. His anti-Apple stance is already clear 1 year ago:
http://www.seattlerex.com/the-death-of-os-x/

Sure, it's nice to win a David vs Goliath battle and Apple seriously should've settled this latest in mediation, but like I said, maybe he wanted to push this all the way and declined to accept anything less than a new computer & punitive damages.

It always amazes me how in the US so many are so eager to sue instead of resolve things in a reasonable mature manner.

In 27 years of being a professional in the IT industry and road warrior experience with Apple service in 8 countries, I've always resolved any issues to my satisfaction without involving lawyers.

 

[saberahul]

Sounds like the lawyers needed a paycheck...