Bloomberg: Apple's First Arm Mac to Launch by 2021 With 12-Core Processor

[Stella]

Why people seem to defend the RPi with the only one argument that there is for it - the price? It's cheaper, yet useless.

You seem to misunderstand what the RaspberryPi is about - given you try to apply applications that are unsuitable for it.

It's not just because of price, also due to it's flexible and community support, amongst many other reasons. You don't like the RaspberryPi, ok that's fine, but that doesn't make it useless for others.

To come to the conclusion that "ARM sucks" because you personally don't like the RPi is extremely shortsighted.

 

[Falhófnir]

Because the arm chip in the mac will not be the embedded CPU used to make a $30 caseless Rpi.

Just like the embedded x86 cpu in intel’s modem is not the same as a Xeon. You are making idiotic comparisons.

It's like he's not even read the title of the thread

 

[Bruno Castelló]

The funny thing is the Raspberry Pi 4 with a $75 Google Coral TPU USB stick is faster than my MacBook 16 at Machine Learning AI tasks like classifying the objects in a video stream and returning their positions at 30+ fps.

There is more than one way to solve a problem.

But does it run Adobe Photoshop? Coda? A full fledged web server with Apache 2, PHP 7, MySQL 6.x ? Can it game? Can it run F1 2019 or the soon to be released, Flight Simulator X? Nope.

There's more than one way to create more problems.

 

[cmaier]

That's one theory. The other theory being that Apple will relegate the high-end professional market to macOS + AMD and the consumer market to iPadOS / iOS + ARM

No, they aren’t going to do that, because there’s no reliable AMD roadmap. I designed AMD’s microprocessors for years. We had success for awhile. But AMD’s success never lasts. No way Apple invests in so much uncertainty. The whole point here is they want reliable performance improvements. And if they don’t think Intel can do it, they certainly don’t think AMD can.

 

[Bruno Castelló]

It's like he's not even read the title of the thread

Dude, I've already said it in the thread: "You can throw as many cores as you want on it, it will not work, simply because it will be power hungry and drain the battery. A ARM based MacBook will not last more than 2 hours."
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No, they aren’t going to do that, because there’s no reliable AMD roadmap. I designed AMD’s microprocessors for years. We had success for awhile. But AMD’s success never lasts. No way Apple invests in so much uncertainty. The whole point here is they want reliable performance improvements. And if they don’t think Intel can do it, they certainly don’t think AMD can.

Hang on. Finding the post where it was found AMD code on macOS....

I'll just leave it here...

AMD APU found in macOS Catalina 15.2 Beta?

I don't know if it's for desktop or mobile but it's a great news. I assume that the MacBook series might gonna use APU. Microsoft already using AMD APU for mobile. Since we have a rumor about ARM-based CPU for Mac in 2020, AMD APU on Mac is an interesting rumor. Will MBP use AMD APU?

forums.macrumors.com

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There are many ARM based computers that are more powerful. (i assume you don’t count ipads for some reason as computers, but they are already faster than many PCs).

Anyway, here’s Another: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-graviton2-arm-against-intel-and-amd
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I didn‘t call you an idiot. I said your comparison was idiotic.

"iPad faster than a PC" ROTFLMAO.

Do the following. Get the UTM app for iPad. It's Qemu. Try to install Windows. At some point you might succeed, but it will be so slow like a 286 computer. Then go back here and tell me how was your experience. For the brevity of your experience, let's just assume you had a bad day trying it.

iPad is in no way a computer and neither a replacement for it. It's far from PC power by miles.

And the one you showed can't game or do my work.

 

[Madhatter32]

if Apple transitions the MAC to ARM, they should consider continuing to develop MacOs on x86 and just license it out. HP and/or Dell would run with it. It would be a huge win for Apple in licensing fees and would increase its market share on x/86 and they could still develop their own ARM based competitive ecosystem. That, my friends, is thinking different.

 

[cmaier]

Dude, I've already said it in the thread: "You can throw as many cores as you want on it, it will not work, simply because it will be power hungry and drain the battery. A ARM based MacBook will not last more than 2 hours."
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Hang on. Finding the post where it was found AMD code on macOS....

I'll just leave it here...

AMD APU found in macOS Catalina 15.2 Beta?

I don't know if it's for desktop or mobile but it's a great news. I assume that the MacBook series might gonna use APU. Microsoft already using AMD APU for mobile. Since we have a rumor about ARM-based CPU for Mac in 2020, AMD APU on Mac is an interesting rumor. Will MBP use AMD APU?

forums.macrumors.com

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"iPad faster than a PC" ROTFLMAO.

Do the following. Get the UTM app for iPad. It's Qemu. Try to install Windows. At some point you might succeed, but it will be so slow like a 286 computer. Then go back here and tell me how was your experience. For the brevity of your experience, let's just assume you had a bad day trying it.

iPad is in no way a computer and neither a replacement for it. It's far from PC power by miles.

And the one you showed can't game or do my work.

Your arguments are getting even stupider. The test for speed is not whether architecture A can run architecture B code as fast as architecture A. The question is whether an ipad can perform a task as fast as a PC. Not whether it can do so while running windows.

And “ipad is in no way a computer” shows an exceptional lack of education in computer science.

 

[ScholarsInk]

I bet I know what your posts in the first iPad,Apple Watch, and AirPods unveilings looked like.

This is such a cheap– and silly– comment. What's the logical extension from someone being concerned that pro apps would lose compatibility, to assuming that person would worry similarly about a watch or a pair of headphones? (And as for iPad, it took quite a while for pro-level apps to come for it, and even those are gimped compared to their Mac/PC versions.)

Yes, Apple had a different processor structure than the x86 world in the PowerPC days but PowerPC wasn't exactly limited to Mac. It was a big audience, and even Windows NT was available for PowerPC.

 

[cmaier]

if Apple transitions the MAC to ARM, they should consider continuing to develop MacOs on x86 and just license it out. HP and/or Dell would run with it. It would be a huge win for Apple in licensing fees and would increase its market share on x/86 and they could still develop their own ARM based competitive ecosystem. That, my friends, is thinking different.

Apple licensed MacOS once. It was not a huge win for apple in licensing fees. It almost bankrupted them.

 

[Bruno Castelló]

Your arguments are getting even stupider. The test for speed is not whether architecture A can run architecture B code as fast as architecture A. The question is whether an ipad can perform a task as fast as a PC. Not whether it can do so while running windows.

And “ipad is in no way a computer” shows an exceptional lack of education in computer science.

Pretty sure it was you who were showing a lack of education in computer science. iPad can't even run a local web development instance. It's just a tablet, or if you prefer, a big smartphone with a big screen.

 

[Nugget]

But does it run . . . a full fledged web server with Apache 2, PHP 7, MySQL 6.x ?

Yes. Unquestionably yes. It can even run a real database like PostgreSQL or code written in a real language.

 

[Bruno Castelló]

Yes. Unquestionably yes. It can even run a real database like PostgreSQL.

Nice but it still can't game or run my favorite apps. So... useless.

 

[Nugget]

Nice but it still can't game or run my favorite apps. So... useless.

You asked, I answered. What more do you want me to say? Your phone can't run your favorite games or apps, either. Is your phone useless? Have you already thrown it into the bin?

 

[MasterMaCanada59]

This is going to be the death of the Mac computers as a whole. Arm Macs won’t have any compatability with any of the software available until the software developers update their software and most will be left behind. Microsoft tried to transition to ARM with the Surface Pro X and Windows 10 on ARM has been a failure. I expect this to fail as well, especially since ARM will probably not have the same performance for all tasks compared to X86-64.

Really share your opinion. "Arm Macs won’t have any compatibility with any of the software available" and this include Bootcamp ! Not really great.

 

[Bruno Castelló]

I believe more in AMD rumours than in ARM rumours. Since Apple has been testing macOS with AMD chips as seen in code found on macOS Catalina betas. I would perfectly welcome an AMD based Mac, better performance and a little bit cheaper than Intel. Ryzen has been doing great.

 

[unsui_grep]

Again: I DO NOT WANT TO REPLACE CODA. Was that clear now?

And I will die with Coda for what is worth it. Best IDE of my life. For that very reason, I will not move to any ARM based computer or develop anything for these computers.

You'll be missed.

"To make great software takes time and care. To start over from scratch and re-make an existing app takes even more. Our next text editor — the follow-up to Coda 2 — couldn't just add a few features and call it a day. It had to change dramatically. It had to catch up to where things are today. And it had to consider where web development will be tomorrow."

https://www.panic.com/nova/

 

[chikorita157]

The cloud is obviously the future. Even the servers I help support are hosted on virtual servers on powerful servers using a VDI environment. This begs to question why people even need a traditional desktop and laptops when users simply can use a thin client, an iPad or a Chromebook to access those applications. This questions the switch to ARM for Macs as if users only need to access remote applications on the cloud exclusively, they wouldn't need a traditional operating system enviroment. Not to mention, most of the basic needs like word processing, blogging, system administration, etc can be done on an iPad, although not the most efficient workflow, but it can be done.

Also, sure the iPad Pro 2018 is very powerful since I own one myself, it does not necessarily outperform my Macbook Pro 15" 2018 model. The iPad Pro 11 with the A12X with 8 cores gets a 1116 in single core and 4644 in Multicore. Sure, it's powerful, but it doesn't outperform the Macbook Pro that has 6 cores with 1055 Single Core and 5316 Multicore, or even the newer models with 8 cores. The iPad Pro performance is more of a 13" Macbook Pro. Still, it's comparing apples and oranges since iPad Pros run iPadOS, which is a lot lighter than macOS. I expect the performance when run on ARM to go down significantly with the same Geekbench benchmark since there are more processes and services that run on macOS opposed to iPadOS.

Still, I am very skeptical with the switch to ARM as there are several drawbacks that will cause a lot of pros to abandon the Mac forever due to developers jumping ship. No, compiling to ARM is not always easy as flipping the switch as we seen with the PowerPC to Intel transition. That said, I never say I won't buy one in the future, but I am still very skeptical since this move can backfire and kill the Mac platform as a whole.

 

[ct2k7]

iPad can't even run a local web development instance.

Yes it can.

 

[Bruno Castelló]

You'll be missed.

"To make great software takes time and care. To start over from scratch and re-make an existing app takes even more. Our next text editor — the follow-up to Coda 2 — couldn't just add a few features and call it a day. It had to change dramatically. It had to catch up to where things are today. And it had to consider where web development will be tomorrow."

https://www.panic.com/nova/

I am a beta tester of that version. It's terrible, very very terrible. They changed everything, the UI, everything became just worse. It's on a par with the terrible mac version of VS Code.
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Yes it can.

No it cannot. It can't even run a MySQL server. If you are going to say that you have to show proof.

 

[ct2k7]

You'll be missed.

"To make great software takes time and care. To start over from scratch and re-make an existing app takes even more. Our next text editor — the follow-up to Coda 2 — couldn't just add a few features and call it a day. It had to change dramatically. It had to catch up to where things are today. And it had to consider where web development will be tomorrow."

https://www.panic.com/nova/

Talking of which, when’s it going to be in public beta or released?

 

[Madhatter32]

Apple licensed MacOS once. It was not a huge win for apple in licensing fees. It almost bankrupted them.

That was a different era entirely and Apple was offering a directly competitive product. Also, Apple's financial woes at the time had little to nothing to do with licensing MacOS. In fact, the licensing of the MacOS was an attempt to stave off further financial deterioration in the first place. It is really is a totally different set-up now and could be a huge success for them -- not to mention for those who really like to use MacOS but would like some hardware diversity -- especially in light of the fact that Apple would still be growing the ARM ecosytem out to its fullest.

 

[ct2k7]

I am a beta tester of that version. It's terrible, very very terrible. They changed everything, the UI, everything became just worse. It's on a par with the terrible mac version of VS Code.
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No it cannot. It can't even run a MySQL server. If you are going to say that you have to show proof.

I use qemu and docker on the iPad via UTM running alpine. It’s not a sanctioned way of doing things, but it’s functional.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

This is such a cheap– and silly– comment. What's the logical extension from someone being concerned that pro apps would lose compatibility, to assuming that person would worry similarly about a watch or a pair of headphones? (And as for iPad, it took quite a while for pro-level apps to come for it, and even those are gimped compared to their Mac/PC versions.)

Yes, Apple had a different processor structure than the x86 world in the PowerPC days but PowerPC wasn't exactly limited to Mac. It was a big audience, and even Windows NT was available for PowerPC.

New thing comes out.

“No developers will support it.”
”Why do we need this?”
”Steve is rolling in his grave.”
”This is the death of the (blank)”
”Apple has lost its way”

Fast Forward Five Years.

”Just got my first ARM Mac* and it’s amazing.”

*Insert iPod, iPhone, intel Mac, iPad, Apple Watch, Airpods.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Again: I DO NOT WANT TO REPLACE CODA. Was that clear now?

And I will die with Coda for what is worth it. Best IDE of my life. For that very reason, I will not move to any ARM based computer or develop anything for these computers.

Your choice. But Panic is moving on with Nova and eventually Coda will no longer be supported on Intel, so you’re going to be choosing death one way or the other, or death will be coming for you. Dealer’s choice.

 

[Bruno Castelló]

I use qemu and docker on the iPad via UTM running alpine. It’s not a sanctioned way of doing things, but it’s functional.

This is not running on native way, you are basically emulating it. I want a native way and iPad can't do that. It's Qemu who is doing that for you. And with UTM you can only max 1GB RAM, not enough.