Butterfly Keyboard is better than new MacBook Pro

[Donnation]

You know at least from this thread that people who like typing on the butterfly keyboard do exist. Never said anything about knowing those people in person.

No, but I did. I specifically said I don’t know anyone. So that great that you do, which is why I wrote “to each his own.”

And honestly I don’t really care if you like it, because it’s gone forever. Apple realized it was an awful design so either keep your current MacBook forever or get on board with the Magic Keyboard. The butterfly keyboard that you love has gone bye bye forever and I couldn’t be happier over it.

 

[Lobwedgephil]

I never really had an issue with the butterfly keyboard is use, just didn't like the reliability of it, which was terrible. But it is hard to describe how much better this new keyboard feels compared to the butterfly to me. Like it is shocking how much better it feels to type on. Just my opinion but I am very happy with the new keyboard.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

No, but I did. I specifically said I don’t know anyone. So that great that you do, which is why I wrote “to each his own.”

And honestly I don’t really care if you like it, because it’s gone forever. Apple realized it was an awful design so either keep your current MacBook forever or get on board with the Magic Keyboard. The butterfly keyboard that you love has gone bye bye forever and I couldn’t be happier over it.

I'm not native at English. To me, that implied you didn't know anyone at all who liked it, no matter if in person or not. But whatever.

As to what kind of keyboards we'll see going forward, I wouldn't exult just yet if I were you. Whether or not they're gonna keep the butterfly around, talking long-term the mechanical keyboard might just disappear altogether and be replaced by a unified multifunctional touch-screen area with advanced haptic feedback. Ever growing Force Touch Trackpads and the Touch Bar have been the first steps toward that goal.

 

[pshufd]

I'm not native at English. To me, that implied you didn't know anyone at all who liked it, no matter if in person or not. But whatever.

As to what kind of keyboards we'll see going forward, I wouldn't exult just yet if I were you. Whether or not they're gonna keep the butterfly around, talking long-term the mechanical keyboard might just disappear altogether and be replaced by a unified multifunctional touch-screen area with advanced haptic feedback. Ever growing Force Touch Trackpads and the Touch Bar have been the first steps toward that goal.

Mechanical keyboards have been around since the 80s. I predict that they will be around until the 80s.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

Mechanical keyboards have been around since the 80s. I predict that they will be around until the 80s.

Oh absolutely they will be around. Just probably not in Mac notebooks.

 

[pshufd]

Oh absolutely they will be around. Just probably not in Mac notebooks.

No problem. External works fine for me.

 

[Jimmy James]

On a car square wheels look better than round. More symmetry.

 

[petvas]

I like the butterfly keyboard but I also understand that this design has many flaws. Many people hate the butterfly keyboard and this cannot be said for the magic keyboard. For me the biggest issue is reliability. I like the feeling of typing on a butterfly keyboard but I am worried that it will at some point fail. So far it has been good for me. I only had one stuck key that worked though and after cleaning the keyboard everything was ok. The problem though is that I shouldn't be worrying about the keyboard failing. The new MacBook is certainly a step in the right direction and I hope that the new keyboard will come to the 13" MacBook Pro. The butterfly keyboard has improved though and in its current incarnation it works pretty well. The thing is that Apple would never get the Youtubers and press to support the butterfly keyboard, no matter what kind of improvements they would have made. The new magic keyboard solves all problems...

 

[raqball]

Looks aren't everything.

To the Starbucks crowd they are....

Everyone except them will be trilled with the new KB... I am not interested in impressing random strangers and would rather have a workable and issue free KB but maybe I am just crazy....

 

[Donnation]

I'm not native at English. To me, that implied you didn't know anyone at all who liked it, no matter if in person or not. But whatever.

As to what kind of keyboards we'll see going forward, I wouldn't exult just yet if I were you. Whether or not they're gonna keep the butterfly around, talking long-term the mechanical keyboard might just disappear altogether and be replaced by a unified multifunctional touch-screen area with advanced haptic feedback. Ever growing Force Touch Trackpads and the Touch Bar have been the first steps toward that goal.

Not exulting at all, but I know for a fact that the abomination that was the butterfly keyboard will not return, and that is a guarantee. So enjoy your laptop with that keyboard because it’s the last one Apple will ever make.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

Not exulting at all, but I know for a fact that the abomination that was the butterfly keyboard will not return, and that is a guarantee. So enjoy your laptop with that keyboard because it’s the last one Apple will ever make.

How come you can claim certainty about that? Inside information?

Phil Schiller suggested they might be going with both variants, FWIW. We'll see how things pan out.

 

[Donnation]

How come you can claim certainty about that? Inside information?

Phil Schiller suggested they might be going with both variants, FWIW. We'll see how things pan out.

I’m sure they will go with both variants of a keyboard that continually fails. I’m sure that 16” MacBook Pro with Butterfly keyboard is right around the corner!

 

[Jimmy James]

I find it interesting that Apple released the butterfly keyboard citing greater stability. Which seems to translate to better feel. But few seem to like it better and only some consider it roughly equal.

 

[pshufd]

The proper thing to do is to build an external butterfly keyboard. That way, anyone who wants one, even for the other Macs, can have one.

 

[Krevnik]

How come you can claim certainty about that? Inside information?

Phil Schiller suggested they might be going with both variants, FWIW. We'll see how things pan out.

The one thing that is certain is that companies will do CYA when they have to change direction. "Continue with both" doesn't say anything for how long, for example. It could easily be years to migrate away, and Phil wouldn't technically be wrong. But Phil is also not going to go to the press and say "Yeah, we're ditching this across the board, it'll just take a couple years, just like it took a couple years to roll out the butterfly." It's just not going to be said, even if it's exactly what will happen.

In this case, I won't pretend to know what will be in 2-3 years, but I'd be surprised if the 13" MBP didn't follow suit. The MBA is more of a coin flip, but I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually switched as well. But what I am sure of is that Phil gave what amounts to a non-answer on this topic, and that's on purpose.

And I'm always reminded of how Jobs went up on stage to announce the Photo iPod and said "who wants to watch video on a tiny screen", yet delivered the Video iPod a year later.

I find it interesting that Apple released the butterfly keyboard citing greater stability. Which seems to translate to better feel. But few seem to like it better and only some consider it roughly equal.

Stability is a good thing. It wasn't the stability of the butterfly that was criticized. But the stability is for nothing if the keys can get jammed, or have so little travel that you may as well be typing on glass.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

I’m sure they will go with both variants of a keyboard that continually fails. I’m sure that 16” MacBook Pro with Butterfly keyboard is right around the corner!

Dude. No need to get all snarky. With smaller models, the greater height of the scissor keyboard will obviously pose a challenge, especially the Air.

And you're wrong, the 2019 butterfly keyboard does not "continually fail" (which is kinda a stretch even for older versions), it doesn't seem to have a significant failure rate at all.
Sure, it's not been out a year yet, but previous versions have definitely had their share of failure reports in the first months.
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The one thing that is certain is that companies will do CYA when they have to change direction. "Continue with both" doesn't say anything for how long, for example. It could easily be years to migrate away, and Phil wouldn't technically be wrong. But Phil is also not going to go to the press and say "Yeah, we're ditching this across the board, it'll just take a couple years, just like it took a couple years to roll out the butterfly." It's just not going to be said, even if it's exactly what will happen.

In this case, I won't pretend to know what will be in 2-3 years, but I'd be surprised if the 13" MBP didn't follow suit. The MBA is more of a coin flip, but I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually switched as well. But what I am sure of is that Phil gave what amounts to a non-answer on this topic, and that's on purpose.

I can agree with most of what you said.
They have maintained both designs though for the past 4 years, since the external Magic Keyboard was introduced about the same time as the first butterfly keyboard in the 12" MacBook.

Especially when it comes to the MBA, there's probably not much motivation to change the keyboard when it would mean a thicker chassis, since the average consumer probably doesn't know about the reputation of the butterfly keyboard and is probably fine with the feel.
Once they do the first ARM Macs, which seems is just a question of when, they'll also probably want to have an even smaller ultra-portable form factor again like the 12" MB was, which the scissor mechanics seem a non-starter for.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

I find it interesting that Apple released the butterfly keyboard citing greater stability. Which seems to translate to better feel. But few seem to like it better and only some consider it roughly equal.

How do you know those hating the butterfly feel aren't just a vocal minority? They're of course more likely to state their opinion on the internet than those who are just fine with it or even prefer it.

 

[throAU]

So I've seen a lot of videos on the new one and with the 2019 MacBook Pro they fixed all the issues as. one has never gone wrong,

- what is your source for this

 

[Jimmy James]

How do you know those hating the butterfly feel aren't just a vocal minority? They're of course more likely to state their opinion on the internet than those who are just fine with it or even prefer it.

It could be a vocal minority. My own experience is that it’s less pleasant but I don’t really care that much about the tactile difference. I’m still fast on it. I’m concerned first about reliability and secondly about the extra noise. Those who I know with a newer Mac have expressed their absolute disgust with the keyboard beyond my own impressions.

And that about sums it up. I hear lots of people saying it feels worse. Occasionally, someone who says it’s a draw. One or two who like it better. I don’t know that anyone around here has conclusive evidence.

 

[petvas]

It doesn't matter how many like it and how many hate it. Since the keyboard on a laptop cannot be changed, it should be universally accepted. I am writing this on my 2018 13" MBP and I have no issues with the keyboard (knock on wood). Actually I even like it but this is not the point. The keyboard on a laptop must be 100% reliable and must be not causing people to hate it. In this regard the butterfly keyboard failed.
I will continue using it though and enjoy it for as long as I can. I am sure though that when at some point I get a new laptop that the magic keyboard will also be very good. I am just not as picky with keyboards.

 

[RedTheReader]

I tried out the 16" Magic Keyboard at a Best Buy last week. I dislike it. It's mushy, and with such little travel, that makes for an unpleasant overall key feel. The 2012-2015 models and especially the old unibody MacBook keyboards were also mushy, but they had enough resistance and travel to feel nice.

I did really love Butterfly though. Its travel was even shorter, but the sharp, highly pronounced tactical bump made them nice regardless. I'd have loved for Apple to make a taller Butterfly, with more travel AND a sharp bump. It probably would have truly solved the durability issues too.

Personally, I'm looking at getting a used Vega 20 8-core MacBook Pro from earlier this year now.

 

[Velin]

I tried out the 16" Magic Keyboard at a Best Buy last week. I dislike it. It's mushy, and with such little travel, that makes for an unpleasant overall key feel. The 2012-2015 models and especially the old unibody MacBook keyboards were also mushy, but they had enough resistance and travel to feel nice.

It's not mushy. It's precise. And it's superior in every way to the butterflop keycrap. Spend a few days with it, and I think you'll come to appreciate how fast you can be on the new keyboard. Along with the physical layout of the keys, the return of a real ESC key, the repositioning of the Touchbar which now makes much more sense, and the revamped TouchID / power button. All of it works together in a nice package, and this includes the keyboard. These are things you simply will not pick up by "trying out" the new Macbook Pro at Bbuy, especially how the key layout and key presses really are excellent when you're sitting down and typing fast on it.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Hasn't there been complaints about the 2016 -> 2019 models having marks on the screen due to the keys? Hopefully, the new keyboard doesn't have this issue

That's a real thing with the older ones, for sure.

Haven't yet seen that on the 16 inch.

Will post if I notice it.

 

[pshufd]

That's a real thing with the older ones, for sure.

Haven't yet seen that on the 16 inch.

Will post if I notice it.

I have noticed dust on my 2014 from the keys. But the dust comes off with a wipe.

 

[yukari]

I tried the new keyboard on 16" MBP and I have 2018 15" MBP with butterfly keyboard.

TBH, at first I did not like the butterfly keyboard, but after having gotten use to it, I do prefer it over the new 16" MBP keyboard. I can type much faster on the butterfly keyboard.