Butterfly Keyboard is better than new MacBook Pro

[triangletechie]

My 2018 MBP is 10 months old and on my daily use, the keyboard has been flawless. I like typing on it. Is it against forum rules to say that you like typing on the butterfly keyboard?

Also, can some of you who know when butterfly keyboards fail let me know when mine is going to? I'd like to put it on my calendar.

 

[Salavat23]

Just tried the new keyboard on the 16" MBP and hate it. Very mushy. Feels like my cheapo HP crapbook from work.

The butterfly keyboard on my 2016 MBP is much better - clicky and responsive.

Apple has gone back.

 

[Quu]

My 2018 MBP is 10 months old and on my daily use, the keyboard has been flawless. I like typing on it. Is it against forum rules to say that you like typing on the butterfly keyboard?

Also, can some of you who know when butterfly keyboards fail let me know when mine is going to? I'd like to put it on my calendar.

You could use it for years and never have a problem or you could get errors on it within 5 minutes of unwrapping it. That's kinda the issue with those keyboards, they are unreliable. Some people (including tech reviewers) have gone through multiple replacements while others have not had a single problem even with their 2016 models used right upto the present.

Anecdotally my friend who has been using Macs for 15 years and has never ever had a single keyboard issue had to have his keyboard replaced twice on his work laptop (2017 Retina MBP 15"). He works at a desk and the laptop stayed at his very high end tech job.

The design appears to have two issues which can induce failure.

1. High temperatures may induce higher than expected metal fatigue on the switch mechanism allowing depressed keys to stay depressed so they don't bounce back up (causing repeats).

2. Debris get under the key stopping the key from completing its electrical circuit when depressed (keys wont appear on the screen when engaged by the users fingers).

When or if this will happen to you? no one can say. It all depends on your usage and environment. One thing is for sure and Apple clearly agrees due to their several repair programs, these keyboards are not as reliable as the old keyboard.

 

[obargy]

This title...

Butterfly keyboard is a keyboard, the new MacBook Pro is a laptop, so you're saying that a keyboard is better than a laptop?

 

[Glockworkorange]

I have noticed dust on my 2014 from the keys. But the dust comes off with a wipe.

Sorry, I was referring to 2016 to early 2019. The screens get noticeably lined by the keyboard.
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It doesn't matter how many like it and how many hate it. Since the keyboard on a laptop cannot be changed, it should be universally accepted. I am writing this on my 2018 13" MBP and I have no issues with the keyboard (knock on wood). Actually I even like it but this is not the point. The keyboard on a laptop must be 100% reliable and must be not causing people to hate it. In this regard the butterfly keyboard failed.
I will continue using it though and enjoy it for as long as I can. I am sure though that when at some point I get a new laptop that the magic keyboard will also be very good. I am just not as picky with keyboards.

Correct. I don’t think anyone hated the 2015 keyboard. The keyboard cannot be divisive when only one company sells a macOS laptop.

 

[RedTheReader]

It's not mushy. It's precise. And it's superior in every way to the butterflop keycrap. Spend a few days with it, and I think you'll come to appreciate how fast you can be on the new keyboard. Along with the physical layout of the keys, the return of a real ESC key, the repositioning of the Touchbar which now makes much more sense, and the revamped TouchID / power button. All of it works together in a nice package, and this includes the keyboard. These are things you simply will not pick up by "trying out" the new Macbook Pro at Bbuy, especially how the key layout and key presses really are excellent when you're sitting down and typing fast on it.

Precise? Butterfly was sharp and tactile and precise. The desktop Magic Keyboard (2015) is precise too. There's a very noticeable (though inaudible) click when you press a key on that. It's not as pronounced as on Butterfly, but it's there. The 16" Magic Keyboard is supposed to be very similar to the external one, but it simply doesn't have the same tactility or click to it.

To make sure I wasn't imagining something, or perhaps letting my time with many different mechanical keyboards snob up my judgment, I took my father into the store to try out the keyboards the other day. He immediately said he preferred the Butterfly. He said he could really tell when he pressed the keys, which frankly is pretty vague. He also could tell a difference between the external Magic Keyboard (which he uses as his main full-time board) and the 16".

I know I'm biased here, but the fact that a normal guy who's not a tech or keyboard enthusiast preferred the Butterfly makes me feel like I'm not completely insane.

 

[dan9700]

I have the new 16” and I can confirm after a few days I hate this dam keyboard the light bleed from the backlighting on the keys look horrible where as butterfly keys only showed the letters, and I can’t type fast on the new one I keep messing up as keys are taller, the 2019 butterfly was flawless wish they didn’t change it

 

[MacBookGamer]

I have the new 16” and I can confirm after a few days I hate this dam keyboard the light bleed from the backlighting on the keys look horrible where as butterfly keys only showed the letters, and I can’t type fast on the new one I keep messing up as keys are taller, the 2019 butterfly was flawless wish they didn’t change it

My typing speed hasn't changed. In fact, it seems to be higher (83 words per minute) and no typing errors. Glad the butterfly trash is gone. My spacebar would always crap out eventually and get stuck.

 

[FrankyDM]

I have the new 16” and I can confirm after a few days I hate this dam keyboard the light bleed from the backlighting on the keys look horrible where as butterfly keys only showed the letters, and I can’t type fast on the new one I keep messing up as keys are taller, the 2019 butterfly was flawless wish they didn’t change it

Yes, the butterfly keyboard is flawless. I can confirm. Typingon mmine right now!

 

[MrUNIMOG]

Yes, the butterfly keyboard is flawless. I can confirm. Typingon mmine right now!

There's nothing to suggest the 2019 butterfly keyboard has any tendency to fail.
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Precise? Butterfly was sharp and tactile and precise. The desktop Magic Keyboard (2015) is precise too. There's a very noticeable (though inaudible) click when you press a key on that. It's not as pronounced as on Butterfly, but it's there. The 16" Magic Keyboard is supposed to be very similar to the external one, but it simply doesn't have the same tactility or click to it.

To make sure I wasn't imagining something, or perhaps letting my time with many different mechanical keyboards snob up my judgment, I took my father into the store to try out the keyboards the other day. He immediately said he preferred the Butterfly. He said he could really tell when he pressed the keys, which frankly is pretty vague. He also could tell a difference between the external Magic Keyboard (which he uses as his main full-time board) and the 16".

I know I'm biased here, but the fact that a normal guy who's not a tech or keyboard enthusiast preferred the Butterfly makes me feel like I'm not completely insane.

This pretty much exactly matches my impression of the new Keyboard on the 16" MBP.

 

[pshifrin]

In our company inventory, we have a 44% failure rate with 2015/2016/2017 keyboards and 0% (so far) with 2018 & 2019s. I known because i manage them all and have records in our Jamf account.

I personally use a 2019 15 inch and when docked in the office, a full sized magic keyboard. I like them both!

 

[-narcan-]

It really does feel like this MBP has been designed by the YouTube / Twitter committee. Apple just sort of made all the changes based on what will review well day one.

 

[throAU]

Hasn't there been complaints about the 2016 -> 2019 models having marks on the screen due to the keys? Hopefully, the new keyboard doesn't have this issue

I'll take "keys leaving finger residue on my screen" over "my keyboard broke and apple need two (or more) days to fix it two to three times a year" any day.

My 2011 had the residue "problem". So does my 2015. As do a heap of PC laptops.

It wipes off. Non issue.

 

[Royksöpp]

The Butterfly Keyboard is absolutely terrible. I used two versions, 2018 and 2019. The 2019 version was horrible. It was loud, clacky, and difficult to type on. The 2018 version was still horrible but much more usable, it was softer and quieter. I sold my 2019 and bought the 16 Inch. What a difference! It's amazing to type on! Apple really screwed the pooch with the Butterfly keyboard. All I have to say is Goodbye and Good Riddance! You will not be missed!

 

[RedTheReader]

In our company inventory, we have a 44% failure rate with 2015/2016/2017 keyboards and 0% (so far) with 2018 & 2019s. I known because i manage them all and have records in our Jamf account.

I personally use a 2019 15 inch and when docked in the office, a full sized magic keyboard. I like them both!

This is excellent. I was hoping that some sort of quantitative stats would come out, and though your company is only a tiny sample size of all the TouchBar 15" MacBook Pros out there, it's still a lot better than the individual accounts we've seen so far.

I'm really surprised to see that the failure rate dropped off with 2018 instead of just with the second (attempted) fix in 2019, which is the one I've been hearing is effective. My personal 2018 machine has been fine, despite being open for days at a time and collecting dust on the keyboard while docked (I'm using an external board). No issues yet.

 

[pshufd]

This is excellent. I was hoping that some sort of quantitative stats would come out, and though your company is only a tiny sample size of all the TouchBar 15" MacBook Pros out there, it's still a lot better than the individual accounts we've seen so far.

I'm really surprised to see that the failure rate dropped off with 2018 instead of just with the second (attempted) fix in 2019, which is the one I've been hearing is effective. My personal 2018 machine has been fine, despite being open for days at a time and collecting dust on the keyboard while docked (I'm using an external board). No issues yet.

Our IT guy covers about 2,500 employees with PCs and Macs and Macs have been pretty popular. We have 2015s - 2018s and he told me that he can't recall one keyboard failure on our Macs. He's seen problems with the USB-C ports with charging, some video issues, bulging battery, etc. We have some kind of Enterprise AppleCare arrangement so problems are taken care of or the employee gets a replacement (usually refurb).

 

[MrUNIMOG]

I'm really surprised to see that the failure rate dropped off with 2018 instead of just with the second (attempted) fix in 2019, which is the one I've been hearing is effective.

Especially since the data AppleInsider gathered suggests failure rates of 2017 and 2018 butterfly models are both about the same and close the 2015 and earlier scissor models, significantly lower than for the 2016 ones. While that's still not a representative statistic, it's certainly a significant sample size.

In our company inventory, we have a 44% failure rate with 2015/2016/2017 keyboards and 0% (so far) with 2018 & 2019s.

Also 44 % failure rate seems rather extreme, interestingly also for 2015 keyboards which have the scissor mechanism (except for 12" MB). On the other hand 0 % failures for 2018 models after about a year also indicates a rather small sample size (probably dozens, at most).
So how large is your company's inventory of Mac notebooks?

 

[pshifrin]

Especially since the data AppleInsider gathered suggests failure rates of 2017 and 2018 butterfly models are both about the same and close the 2015 and earlier scissor models, significantly lower than for the 2016 ones. While that's still not a representative statistic, it's certainly a significant sample size.



Also 44 % failure rate seems rather extreme, interestingly also for 2015 keyboards which have the scissor mechanism (except for 12" MB). On the other hand 0 % failures for 2018 models after about a year also indicates a rather small sample size (probably dozens, at most).
So how large is your company's inventory of Mac notebooks?

The sample size is a little less than 20 but that 2015 was in reference to an 1st gen 12” MacBook, not MBP. Heck there’s still a 2009 MBP alive and kicking. So yes, it’s a small sample size but it is what it is. Failure rate = Apple replaced top case.

 

[MrUNIMOG]

The sample size is a little less than 20 but that 2015 was in reference to an 1st gen 12” MacBook, not MBP. Heck there’s still a 2009 MBP alive and kicking. So yes, it’s a small sample size but it is what it is. Failure rate = Apple replaced top case.

Thanks for sharing, anyway!

 

[tjedora]

After some hours with the 16", I must say I still prefer the Butterfly keyboard from my 13" 2016 MBP. Mainly because of the larger keys and the lower travel. I would also describe the new old keyboard as mushy. I really have to make sure I hit the button as I missed some letters while typing this. lol

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

After some hours with the 16", I must say I still prefer the Butterfly keyboard from my 13" 2016 MBP. Mainly because of the larger keys and the lower travel. I would also describe the new old keyboard as mushy. I really have to make sure I hit the button as I missed some letters while typing this. lol

I am with you, BUT... how to you deal with the noice of the 2016 keyboard?
I have been using the 16" for a week and am thinking about returning the 16" and keeping the 2017 15".

 

[RedTheReader]

I am with you, BUT... how to you deal with the noice of the 2016 keyboard?
I have been using the 16" for a week and am thinking about returning the 16" and keeping the 2017 15".

The noise of the 15"? Almost every external desktop keyboard I've used is louder than Butterfly. Either due to a "clack" from the key's travel, or a deliberate "click" built into the switch design. Butterfly is not loud enough to bother me.

 

[tjedora]

I am with you, BUT... how to you deal with the noice of the 2016 keyboard?
I have been using the 16" for a week and am thinking about returning the 16" and keeping the 2017 15".

I never had any issue with the sound of the Butterfly keys. *shrugs*

 

[MrUNIMOG]

I never had any issue with the sound of the Butterfly keys. *shrugs*

Personally I haven't either, but people around me (notably my family) have taken issue with the sound of me typing.
Not that it's particularly loud compared to other keyboards, but the noise has a certain sharpness to it. The 2017 version I've had my 2016 MBP's keyboard replaced with recently has a noticeably different sound, not quieter but less piercing.

 

[macintoshmac]

I like the sound made by my 2011 MBP. I liked the sound of the butterfly keyboard as well. I personally was okay with the typing experience but not the reliability since mine failed in a year and half.

For me, I often find myself thinking fondly of the sound made by Cherry MX Blue switches. That is the sound I love if I want a keyboard to make sounds at all. Any other sound does not impact me positively or negatively.

@dan9700 Butterfly keyboard was a well-intentioned but poorly thought-out/ poorly implemented product. I liked it for its visual crispness over the scissor keyboard of my MBP 2011, but at the end of the day, I am buying a laptop to use it, so I need that keyboard to work reliably. Scissor never stood me up. Butterfly did in just a year and half. Just a year and half.. a $2300 (in my country) notebook's keyboard that often registered double keypresses, failed to register some keypresses for keys residing side by side such as -er- and -re- or -op-, etc. and then had some keys becoming permanently erratic. No, I do not like that keyboard that does not like to be touched.

On the other hand, that old scissor keyboard never broke down on me in 8 years. Now I have 2017 MBA with me, this keyboard feels slightly different from the 2011 MBP keyboard in terms of key travel, and to me this is a happy medium between the old 2011 travel and the 2016 travel. But - this is the keyboard that I know will not fail me.

I hope the 2019 scissor mechanism that's out now can continue and enrich the legacy of the old scissor keyboard.