Cashless society-Do you still carry cash ?

[Nhwhazup]

Lol thanks for your advice i will be ok haha. Mmm.. tap and go is very convenient but if its credit card you are just racking up more debts.

I get 2% back on all purchases with my credit card - keep it paid off all the time, so no debt or finance fees. I use it for everything.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Not quite. You can buy a disposable card with a debit card. And while the US now offers chip and pin, too many retailers still allow sliding, as our American cards have both chip and pin function, but also magnetic strip.

You can't swipe a chip card on a magnetic strip reader anyway, by design. It will just beep at you to insert (or now tap) the card. If your bank is following proper fraud prevention features, if you force a fallback on a functioning chip reader, the transaction SHOULD decline.
[doublepost=1555747060][/doublepost]

Around my home area I usually carry some cash with me, not a lot; if I am going out for lunch or dinner with a friend I'll often carry a a bit more so that we can simply put the bill on one check, she can put it on her debit or credit card (or I can put it on mine, whichever works out best for us). I give her the cash for whatever it is I owe for my meal and tip. Just makes things a little simpler. When traveling, I also like to have at least a hundred dollars or so in cash with me for incidentals, just in case...but for the most part I prefer to use a debit or credit card for gas, hotel, most meals, etc. It is easier to keep track of expenses when using cards and getting the statements later.

Apple Pay Cash

 

[Apple fanboy]

Most Americans carry an ID card with them because it is needed to do a lot of things in daily life. Even going into a bar in a busy part of town, you will get your ID's PDF417 barcode scanned/magnetic strip swiped, even if you look more than old enough (The scan reveals whether you have caused trouble in the past or not by checking against a database the local bars use, rather than just an age thing). If/When you're stopped by police, you rather have it, than being called into the station because they think you're lying about who you are. Also when using a credit card, some places ask for ID (they don't when you use Apple/Google Pay or Tap to Pay), remember, as US Credit cards are Chip & Signature, not Chip & PIN.

Some stores like Walmart will scan your ID when you return something without a receipt. This way they can track if you have "done it soo many times" that they will ban you from returning items to the store at all, etc.
[doublepost=1555745321][/doublepost]
Tin Foil Hatters I knew would come out. Its a fiat currency anyway, which means your cash can easily be no good tomorrow if the government felt like it. Whether if its on a card, or on paper money, its a fiat currency, not backed by anything other than the government saying $1 is $1.
[doublepost=1555745670][/doublepost]
You don't need an ID to vote? I don't want this to get political, but that seems like kind of dangerous. Here in Arizona, you scan your ID on a touchscreen before your ballot is even printed. Then when you're done, you insert the ballot into another bin with a touchscreen on it which electronically counts it.

What about going to a bar? Bars here on Mill Ave maintain some sort of database to see if you caused any trouble in the bar in the past/got banned etc. The bouncers would scan your ID's barcode to check your ID against this database. Doesn't matter if you look over the age of 100.

Even when riding a train, caught without your pass? The ID is the only way they are able to mail a ticket to your house/issue you the ticket. Otherwise, you will have to go into the Police station and prove who you are that way, which doesn't sound much fun to me. You CAN get by remembering the ID numbers off of your ID card, which I do. In this case you'd give them the numbers, your name, and birthdate, and they can radio it in and confirm you're actually not fibbing them.

As for getting a phone account, it has something to do with some terrorism law I am sure, but I am sure it REALLY has to do with the fact that they run credit checks etc to make sure you pay your bill on time.

AutoZone swiped my ID when returning some car parts. No swipe? Well then I just don't get to return the item., as returning items to a store is a privilege, not some right. The store uses this to track how many times you are returning something to prevent people from "renting" tools they need, etc. I know Walmart does not allow you to return something without a receipt more than 3 times in a year, and they track this by scanning your ID card.

What I really want is my state to make a digital ID card. That would be nice, and I can ditch the physical card at home, or just leave it in the car.

Also, we aren't TOO behind, we also have the same fancy government websites in our state, ServiceArizona and MVD Now, which now even allows you to electronically title a car, and sell it, etc.
[doublepost=1555745987][/doublepost]
Look at all the gas pump skimmers in the US and ATM skimmers in the US, they have a camera to steal the PIN number. There has even been a new phenomenon called the chip punch out now, where the ATM is fitted with a device that would also punch out the chip from your card, so they can implant it on another card. Hopefully one isn't too drunk to notice their card is now chip-less when they got it back out of the ATM.

And then there also is card shimming, which of course is happening in my state, go figure. https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-ne...reat-shimmers-are-making-their-way-to-arizona

So the safest way to pay is Apple Pay.



tl;dr In America, most people carry their ID cards & Apple Pay is the best way to pay.

0% chance of fraud when you pay cash. Whilst Apple Pay is safe, it’s not 100% safe.

 

[0388631]

You can't swipe a chip card on a magnetic strip reader anyway, by design. It will just beep at you to insert (or now tap) the card. If your bank is following proper fraud prevention features, if you force a fallback on a functioning chip reader, the transaction SHOULD decline.

Nope. I've done it several times with BoA and Chase cards. It should decline, but it doesn't. Current terminals offer two way solutions. Banks still issue hybrid cards. I'm on the 2nd issuance of those cards, and recently my Wells Fargo card was sent in as a hybrid card. The retailer will ask you to insert the card in to read the chip, if the PoS terminal fails 1-2x depending on the store's policy, they'll have you slide it. I've had it happen at Kroger, Costco, Target, Whole Foods, etc. It'll take another 5 years by my estimate until hybrid cards are dropped for pure EMV.

I'd say out of maybe 800 transactions a year for myself, the EMV won't work correctly about 100-150 times. And these are on brand new terminals. Average fallback use is 2% for all EMV transactions in the US. That's a huge number of failed transactions that require fallback.

 

[smallcoffee]

But if they steal your debit card they would also need to steal your PIN number.
Plus if money is stolen from your account (fraud), at least in my country you are covered for the first £50,000. I don’t usually have that much in my current account!

You don’t use a PIN number for online transactions, for example. But it’s not about being covered as much as recovery time and hassle. Someone might steal $5,000 from your account, how will you pay rent/mortgage while you wait for the bank to investigate?

What if you pay for something and then you’re overcharged or what you bought isn’t that’s you thought it would be and the vendor is a jerk about it? This happened to me recently. How effective is disputing a charge on a debit card when they already have your cash versus a credit card?

This also doesn’t include things like cash back and stuff for no-fee credit cards, automatic extended warranties, etc.

Right now at least I can’t think of a reason to not put all purchases on a credit card.
[doublepost=1555758058][/doublepost]

Nope. I've done it several times with BoA and Chase cards. It should decline, but it doesn't. Current terminals offer two way solutions. Banks still issue hybrid cards. I'm on the 2nd issuance of those cards, and recently my Wells Fargo card was sent in as a hybrid card. The retailer will ask you to insert the card in to read the chip, if the PoS terminal fails 1-2x depending on the store's policy, they'll have you slide it. I've had it happen at Kroger, Costco, Target, Whole Foods, etc. It'll take another 5 years by my estimate until hybrid cards are dropped for pure EMV.

I'd say out of maybe 800 transactions a year for myself, the EMV won't work correctly about 100-150 times. And these are on brand new terminals. Average fallback use is 2% for all EMV transactions in the US. That's a huge number of failed transactions that require fallback.

This is correct. You can swipe the card. Typically though you must try the chip first, as you pointed out here.

Lots of people (Europeans at least) complain about Americans not using chip and pin but I say we should just skip that altogether and go straight for contactless payments. Apple Pay and the like are just great. I think I read recently that cc fraud in the United States is on a downward trend because of the chip and payment methods like Apple Pay. Most of the attacks come from false readers reading the magnetic strip. You can still jack someone’s credit card, though.

 

[Apple fanboy]

You don’t use a PIN number for online transactions, for example. But it’s not about being covered as much as recovery time and hassle. Someone might steal $5,000 from your account, how will you pay rent/mortgage while you wait for the bank to investigate?

What if you pay for something and then you’re overcharged or what you bought isn’t that’s you thought it would be and the vendor is a jerk about it? This happened to me recently. How effective is disputing a charge on a debit card when they already have your cash versus a credit card?

This also doesn’t include things like cash back and stuff for no-fee credit cards, automatic extended warranties, etc.

Right now at least I can’t think of a reason to not put all purchases on a credit card.
[doublepost=1555758058][/doublepost]

This is correct. You can swipe the card. Typically though you must try the chip first, as you pointed out here.

Lots of people (Europeans at least) complain about Americans not using chip and pin but I say we should just skip that altogether and go straight for contactless payments. Apple Pay and the like are just great. I think I read recently that cc fraud in the United States is on a downward trend because of the chip and payment methods like Apple Pay. Most of the attacks come from false readers reading the magnetic strip. You can still jack someone’s credit card, though.

You have the same online protection with a debit card and in the UK the distance selling act covers you always get your money back.

As for rent/mortgage I finished mine when I was 33 so I’m probably not going to sweat someone clearing my account!
Especially as all my online purchases are done through a separate account, so I’d never lose (even temporarily) more than about £500 which is nothing to me. I don’t do credit. Avoid it at all costs. But that’s probably off topic.
I use cash for my face to face purchases to reduce fraud risks and to give less details about my spending habits to the world.

 

[rbrian]

There's so many ways that could go wrong though. Your phone battery is low, the person who gets your phone doesn't know about that feature, etc.



Did you like it? Early reviews of the park seemed to indicate they hadn't gotten the virtual queues with the wristbands working well. Hopefully that's changed by now.

It was fantastic! The virtual queue system worked brilliantly, although the crappy fastening on the wristband meant I wasn't the only one who had to queue up for a new one. Having the river to swim in while waiting meant I was never bored, and I tried almost everything.

I didn't realise quite how good it was until I went to Universal the next day, and spent about 5 hours queuing. I went on The Hulk twice, and the Harry Potter train once, the rest of the day was queuing.

 

[smallcoffee]

You have the same online protection with a debit card and in the UK the distance selling act covers you always get your money back.

As for rent/mortgage I finished mine when I was 33 so I’m probably not going to sweat someone clearing my account!
Especially as all my online purchases are done through a separate account, so I’d never lose (even temporarily) more than about £500 which is nothing to me. I don’t do credit. Avoid it at all costs. But that’s probably off topic.
I use cash for my face to face purchases to reduce fraud risks and to give less details about my spending habits to the world.

I'm speaking generally, not about you specifically. Most people have rent/mortgage. Even if you do get your money back (and you do in the United States as well) it takes time.

But using a debit card you also lose out on things like cash back, extended warranties, and random things like that, so all else equal it still doesn't make sense to use a debit card for the vast majority of people. Obviously there are situations where you'd want to get cash or maintain your privacy as you alluded to above, but if you're using a debit card to make a purchase you're making a poor decision. I'd go so far as to say it's not even an opinion but a fact.

 

[rbrian]

Most Americans carry an ID card with them because it is needed to do a lot of things in daily life. Even going into a bar in a busy part of town, you will get your ID's PDF417 barcode scanned/magnetic strip swiped, even if you look more than old enough (The scan reveals whether you have caused trouble in the past or not by checking against a database the local bars use, rather than just an age thing). If/When you're stopped by police, you rather have it, than being called into the station because they think you're lying about who you are. Also when using a credit card, some places ask for ID (they don't when you use Apple/Google Pay or Tap to Pay), remember, as US Credit cards are Chip & Signature, not Chip & PIN.

Some stores like Walmart will scan your ID when you return something without a receipt. This way they can track if you have "done it soo many times" that they will ban you from returning items to the store at all, etc.
[doublepost=1555745321][/doublepost]
Tin Foil Hatters I knew would come out. Its a fiat currency anyway, which means your cash can easily be no good tomorrow if the government felt like it. Whether if its on a card, or on paper money, its a fiat currency, not backed by anything other than the government saying $1 is $1.
[doublepost=1555745670][/doublepost]
You don't need an ID to vote? I don't want this to get political, but that seems like kind of dangerous. Here in Arizona, you scan your ID on a touchscreen before your ballot is even printed. Then when you're done, you insert the ballot into another bin with a touchscreen on it which electronically counts it.

What about going to a bar? Bars here on Mill Ave maintain some sort of database to see if you caused any trouble in the bar in the past/got banned etc. The bouncers would scan your ID's barcode to check your ID against this database. Doesn't matter if you look over the age of 100.

Even when riding a train, caught without your pass? The ID is the only way they are able to mail a ticket to your house/issue you the ticket. Otherwise, you will have to go into the Police station and prove who you are that way, which doesn't sound much fun to me. You CAN get by remembering the ID numbers off of your ID card, which I do. In this case you'd give them the numbers, your name, and birthdate, and they can radio it in and confirm you're actually not fibbing them.

As for getting a phone account, it has something to do with some terrorism law I am sure, but I am sure it REALLY has to do with the fact that they run credit checks etc to make sure you pay your bill on time.

AutoZone swiped my ID when returning some car parts. No swipe? Well then I just don't get to return the item., as returning items to a store is a privilege, not some right. The store uses this to track how many times you are returning something to prevent people from "renting" tools they need, etc. I know Walmart does not allow you to return something without a receipt more than 3 times in a year, and they track this by scanning your ID card.

What I really want is my state to make a digital ID card. That would be nice, and I can ditch the physical card at home, or just leave it in the car.

Also, we aren't TOO behind, we also have the same fancy government websites in our state, ServiceArizona and MVD Now, which now even allows you to electronically title a car, and sell it, etc.
[doublepost=1555745987][/doublepost]
Look at all the gas pump skimmers in the US and ATM skimmers in the US, they have a camera to steal the PIN number. There has even been a new phenomenon called the chip punch out now, where the ATM is fitted with a device that would also punch out the chip from your card, so they can implant it on another card. Hopefully one isn't too drunk to notice their card is now chip-less when they got it back out of the ATM.

And then there also is card shimming, which of course is happening in my state, go figure. https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-ne...reat-shimmers-are-making-their-way-to-arizona

So the safest way to pay is Apple Pay.



tl;dr In America, most people carry their ID cards & Apple Pay is the best way to pay.

Wow, your IDs get used a lot! The first time I got IDd in a bar, was when I was 19 - I'd been drinking in bars for two years at that point, so I was surprised. The legal drinking age is 18 over here. There's no real method of identifying trouble makers, except police photos that are shared with local establishments. Trouble is rare, even football hooliganism is largely under control now.

We get ballot cards mailed to our house, which we hand in at the voting place, and they use a pen to cross your name off the list, before going into the booth to tick boxes. It seems quite primitive, and I don't think it has changed for decades, maybe longer. Until Brexit, I thought it worked well enough, but then you have your own problems, so perhaps the voting system is beside the point.

To return things to shops, all we need is the receipt, not ID. You do need proof of address when buying a TV, so they can check you have a TV licence (this funds the BBC).

 

[Nhwhazup]

I'm speaking generally, not about you specifically. Most people have rent/mortgage. Even if you do get your money back (and you do in the United States as well) it takes time.

But using a debit card you also lose out on things like cash back, extended warranties, and random things like that, so all else equal it still doesn't make sense to use a debit card for the vast majority of people. Obviously there are situations where you'd want to get cash or maintain your privacy as you alluded to above, but if you're using a debit card to make a purchase you're making a poor decision. I'd go so far as to say it's not even an opinion but a fact.

I’d much rather use a credit card than a debit card. I’ve seen too many people get their debit cards compromised and accounts wiped. Of course they get their money back but it did take a few days. That can be an issue for those that do live paycheck to paycheck and have direct deposit. With a credit card, they also take care of it but it’s really at no impact to the holder - the disputed charges are sitting with them not you.

 

[Lee_Bo]

I'm using this:

iPhone 7 Plus Wallet Case, iPhone 8 Plus Wallet Case, LAMEEKU Protective iPhone 8 Plus Card Holder Case with Credit Card Slot, Leather Cover for Apple iPhone 7 Plus/ 8 Plus 5.5" Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZVE6Y5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_pxXUCbR55HWD3

But still use  Pay where it's accepted. I haven't carried cash in years.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm speaking generally, not about you specifically. Most people have rent/mortgage. Even if you do get your money back (and you do in the United States as well) it takes time.

But using a debit card you also lose out on things like cash back, extended warranties, and random things like that, so all else equal it still doesn't make sense to use a debit card for the vast majority of people. Obviously there are situations where you'd want to get cash or maintain your privacy as you alluded to above, but if you're using a debit card to make a purchase you're making a poor decision. I'd go so far as to say it's not even an opinion but a fact.

I've managed to get this far in life without a credit card, so I think I'll make it the remaining way!

More people get into credit card debt when they suddenly have a circumstance change and they can't pay back. I've always been the other way. Save the money for what you want and buy it. But as I said above this is really a different topic.

 

[Gregg2]

But using a debit card you also lose out on things like cash back, extended warranties, and random things like that, so all else equal it still doesn't make sense to use a debit card for the vast majority of people. Obviously there are situations where you'd want to get cash or maintain your privacy as you alluded to above, but if you're using a debit card to make a purchase you're making a poor decision. I'd go so far as to say it's not even an opinion but a fact.

The store where we buy our food offers three methods of payment: cash, check or debit card. Credit cards are not accepted either in the store or at their gas pumps. We used to shop elsewhere, and could use a credit card. The selection at this store is better, and the prices are lower. It's a trade off. Used to buy our gas there, but another place opened up across the street which usually has a lower price (99% of the time, it seems) and allows credit cards. So even if the price is the same (rare) I go the newer place so I can get the cash back bonus.

 

[Nhwhazup]

Especially with big ticket items, I always ask if they give a cash discount. If they don’t I’ll use my credit card and get the 2% cash back. I know that 2% is not much but when you literally get 2% back on everything you purchase, it adds up. I usually let my cash back sit until the end of the year and use it for some Christmas shopping.

 

[smallcoffee]

I've managed to get this far in life without a credit card, so I think I'll make it the remaining way!

More people get into credit card debt when they suddenly have a circumstance change and they can't pay back. I've always been the other way. Save the money for what you want and buy it. But as I said above this is really a different topic.

Yea you probably will, you’re just also making a poor decision if you buy things with a debit card (as is anybody else who does).

 

[Nhwhazup]

I've managed to get this far in life without a credit card, so I think I'll make it the remaining way!

More people get into credit card debt when they suddenly have a circumstance change and they can't pay back. I've always been the other way. Save the money for what you want and buy it. But as I said above this is really a different topic.

I know many people get into debt with their credit cards and the cards make it easy to spend money that they don’t have. However, if you are disciplined with your budget and don’t spend beyond your means, it just makes so much more sense to use a credit card rather than a debit card.

In addition to the cash back and additional benefits with credit cards, it’s just easy to have everything in one place.

 

[smallcoffee]

Especially with big ticket items, I always ask if they give a cash discount. If they don’t I’ll use my credit card and get the 2% cash back. I know that 2% is not much but when you literally get 2% back on everything you purchase, it adds up. I usually let my cash back sit until the end of the year and use it for some Christmas shopping.

Exactly. I do the same. Not to mention if you get into the churning/points game as I have, you can make multiples of that. Even a free card (if you’re in the U.S.) like the Chase Freedom card gets you 5% cash back on purchases wherever the rotating category happens to be. It’s 5% off your purchase and you don’t pay for the card. You’d be making a poor financial decision to not do it.

 

[Nhwhazup]

Exactly. I do the same. Not to mention if you get into the churning/points game as I have, you can make multiples of that. Even a free card (if you’re in the U.S.) like the Chase Freedom card gets you 5% cash back on purchases wherever the rotating category happens to be. It’s 5% off your purchase and you don’t pay for the card. You’d be making a poor financial decision to not do it.

LOL that’s great. I wish I could have my city take a credit card for my property taxes. They do but charge a 3% surcharge - so no go. My husband bought a 5k plow for his truck last year and was taking the money from savings, I was all over it - let me pay for that!

 

[smallcoffee]

LOL that’s great. I wish I could have my city take a credit card for my property taxes. They do but charge a 3% surcharge - so no go. My husband bought a 5k plow for his truck last year and was taking the money from savings, I was all over it - let me pay for that!

Yea, we plan purchases strategically to maximize such things, but it's certainly more work than just "buy with cash". But I'm booking trips with points - 30k points vs $1600 each way kind of thing soooooo YMMV

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yea you probably will, you’re just also making a poor decision if you buy things with a debit card (as is anybody else who does).

In your opinion.
[doublepost=1555776195][/doublepost]

I know many people get into debt with their credit cards and the cards make it easy to spend money that they don’t have. However, if you are disciplined with your budget and don’t spend beyond your means, it just makes so much more sense to use a credit card rather than a debit card.

In addition to the cash back and additional benefits with credit cards, it’s just easy to have everything in one place.

Again I’ll agree to disagree.

 

[Gutwrench]

I’m confused with references to Apple Pay. Isn’t Apple Pay merely an interface to your credit and debit card, or to Apple Cash?

 

[Akrapovic]

Yea you probably will, you’re just also making a poor decision if you buy things with a debit card (as is anybody else who does).

Why is paying with a debit card a poor decision?

 

[smallcoffee]

In your opinion.
[doublepost=1555776195][/doublepost]
Again I’ll agree to disagree.

I don't think it's a matter of opinion, financially speaking. All else equal, a credit card could give you even a 1% cash back benefit and that's far superior to 0% from a debit card.
[doublepost=1555776684][/doublepost]

Why is paying with a debit card a poor decision?

I'm not very familiar with international options for credit cards, but I've covered a bit about why it is a poor decision (if you could pay with a credit card instead) above. It boils down to security, warranties, and discounts. There are certainly edge cases, but speaking generally it's definitely better and I don't think you can really make a case otherwise.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I don't think it's a matter of opinion, financially speaking. All else equal, a credit card could give you even a 1% cash back benefit and that's far superior to 0% from a debit card.

I think I can get buy without it thanks. Money isn’t my god. I’ve got enough to get by. I don’t chase every % I can.

 

[smallcoffee]

I think I can get buy without it thanks. Money isn’t my god. I’ve got enough to get by. I don’t chase every % I can.

This isn't about you and you keep trying to make it about you. I don't care about what you can get buy with because it's not relevant to the discussion. Even if you had a trillion dollars and you paid for something with a debit card when you could have used a credit card it's still a poor financial decision. You don't even have to "chase" anything, the credit cards give automatic cash back. You just get it and you keep doing whatever you normally do. It's the same amount of work as using a debit card, except you get a discount on whatever you're buying.

There are certainly non-financial arguments you could make for not using one, such as credit cards in some sense being a regressive tax on the poor, or using cash because you value your privacy (debit card transactions are still commoditized and sold - no different than a cc), or w/e. But it's hard (probably impossible) to make a financial argument for using the debit card over a credit card.

Even if you didn't get cash back, it's better for security and random extended warranties and w/e.
[doublepost=1555777036][/doublepost]

I’m confused with references to Apple Pay. Isn’t Apple Pay merely an interface to your credit and debit card, or to Apple Cash?

I mentioned it (not sure if you meant me in this case) because of the interface - extra security and it's better than carrying a bunch of credit cards around. Apple is going to release a credit card soon too, at least in the U.S. .