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China Overtakes U.S. to Become Biggest iPhone Market in Q2 2023
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Typing this message via Pixel 3. It can do pretty much everything iPhone 14 can do. Streaming video, playing game, shooting videos, social media, chats etc.
It can be primary phone if you want. Pixel 3 now days can be purchased under 100
Not many know this but China is actually a richer economy than US by PPP. So this took so long only because Huawei was doing so well so far, until now.
It's worth noting/emphasizing that while some independent retailers may have cut iPhone prices in China, Apple kept them the same. For better or worse, Apple itself doesn't tend to adjust retail prices between launches. The 14 Pro launched in China with a pre-VAT starting price of RMB 7,072 and is still the same price today.
Starting prices (excluding purchases taxes) for iPhone 14 Pro at launch last year:
U.S. - $999
China - RMB 7,072 (around $990 USD at the time)
UK - £915 (around $980 USD at the time)
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And then by the next afternoon China would have built another 10 warships while the US will barely be able to put one together in 6 months.
Sorry but even our own Generals are saying we can’t win if we have to fight Russia and China (and there is no scenario where we fight just one of them) largely because of China’s astronomical lead in industry. Current inventory count is irrelevant. Wars don’t start with zero notice, everyone knows it’s coming. That’s why China have been manufacturing more warheads. There’s no scenario where we sneak our military over without them knowing in advance.
The US won WW2 because we had a significant lead in industrial capability vs the Nazis. Hitler had better tanks but we could simply out manufacture and out number his equipment. Stalin defeated Hitler because of manpower (another China leading point vs USA).
Also Europe spent centuries attempting to steal IP and materials from the Silk Road back when Europe was barbaric and China was a beacon of civilization but that didn’t stop Europe from rising in their own right. Nobody cares about IP law. Power comes from material advantage — we currently don’t have any besides media.
Hopefully the interest from China will finally force Apple to innovate the iPhone again as they’ll be competing directly with android devices in that market at least. We might see the benefits of such and maybe it’ll curb this out of control spiral on rising prices too.
This is one of the major reasons I support the rise of Chinese domestic technology companies -- it puts pressure on western tech which has enjoyed dominance for a long time. In the long term this will all benefit the average American, European, African, etc. so I don't know why people freak out about China so much.
The reason is that Chinese companies steal your intellectual property and make the same product that you do at half the price due to the labor cost difference. I mean, I have no problem the rise of Chinese domestic technology companies *if* they play by the rules.
Ask around how many foreign companies need to spend extra effort/money to protect their core technology not being stolen when they use China factory to build their stuff. Just search the news and you will see this is a known issue for every single foreign tech company in China. They openly admit that as well. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ity-than-authentic-luxury-goods-a7083236.html
If they put pressure on western tech by stealing your intellectual property and build the same stuff at half the cost selling to me, no I don't want that pressure.
The issue of IP protection is evolving relatively quickly in China:
Intellectual property in China - Wikipedia
I gather that alot of Americans don't like competition.
Well the US Gov doesn't like it, as it has a history of banning/sanctioning companies from multiple countries if they get too competitive with US companies.
Well the US Gov doesn't like it, as it has a history of banning/sanctioning companies from multiple countries if they get too competitive with US companies.
Americans like competition. The problem is that there not nearly enough competition coming from companies in Australia, Europe, etc. We would love to see viable Apple, Google, etc. alternatives coming from outside the U.S.
In 10 years China is going to have a lot of problems. The unemployment rate is already high for young folks, the population decline plus housing bubble is coming.
They have a lot of problems right now.
My wife was in Singapore for 6 months last year. My daughter was there for a month this year. They said that there are a lot of wealthy refugees from China living there now. I think that they fear confiscation of their wealth or not being allowed to leave the country.
This is the YouTube channel where I keep up with China. Headlines like this have been there for about the past year. He seems like a Permabear but he was bullish and positive on the country in the past. I don't know how he doesn't get censored.
Chinese people have been buying cheap apartments for the last 7 years in Japan. Mostly low-end Tokyo apartments and small homes. Thinking they profit. But it hasn't turned out that way. North Carolina USA triangle area. many Chinese instructor from universities etc. all over NC have been putting their parents in nursing homes for the past 10 years. Now not so much. Middle class and slightly above Chinese people. Mostly they end up losing money and returning to China.
True, but it's changing fast. The decoupling is accelerating. China is now seen as a risky venture for businesses, so businesses are shifting production to other countries. And more and more individuals are looking to buy alternative products to those Made in China.
Basically all large companies are global now, so that doesn’t really make a lot of sense.
Or maybe this is evidence that Apple is already innovating in ways that their customer base finds meaningful. Not everything revolves around folding displays or fake moon camera shots.
Well, not an awful lot has changed between an iPhone 11 to an iPhone 14 and camera tech has only improved because Android manufacturers have been pushing past the 40 megapixel sensors for the past few years which is becoming a standard. Apple are very reactionary of late, even if they often 'do it better' eventually.
Look at the standard iPhone for example, they still only have a dual camera system despite costing close and over £1k depending on storage. How many years can Apple milk that? Competiton has triple and quadruple systems on devices of the same cost and cheaper. Apple only seem to hold back so they can further justify a 'Pro' price point and market a triple system to this effect. Now changing this would be a 'meaningful' update.
I suppose this’ll mean even more profits
Made in China , sold in China
At this rate apple will move their hq there …
Made in China , sold in China
At this rate apple will move their hq there …
Good point. As with most manufacturers, premium features tend to trickle down to more ordinary phones, but Apple does seem to be holding on to the telephoto lens as the differentiating feature between Pro and non Pro. It’s like they don’t have any good ideas for new features to put in the pro phones.
I personally don't see the issue with the standard iPhone model still sporting 2 cameras when, by your admission, Apple also sells pro models that users can buy if it meets their needs. If it helps, you can think of the pro max iPhone as the "true" flagship, while the base iPhone is a cheaper option for users who don't need all the bells and whistles, or perhaps desires something lighter or with longer battery life.
Also, people are just holding on to their phones longer, be it the iPhone or android phone. If you consider the average user using an iPhone for say, 4 years, suddenly, there not really being much difference between the iPhone 11 and 14 isn't that big a deal when majority of iPhone 11 users are not in the market for a new iPhone anyways. They will get a new iPhone when it gets long in the tooth or when the battery starts to die out, and I believe it's an arrangement Apple is fine with. What matters is that people continue using iPhones, because the entire Apple ecosystem is designed to monetise the user base. This is one key benefit that no other android handset OEM gets to enjoy, because they don't own their own ecosystem.
As such, it's no longer meaningful to compare iPhones with android phones. It's the Apple ecosystem vs everything else, and the reason why Apple gets to reap the benefits of having their own ecosystem is because they were the only company willing to invest in building up their own ecosystem in the first place (and credit goes to Tim Cook for doubling down on this).
As I am discussing with you about this, I am more certain than ever that Apple will never release a folding phone. Setting aside the discussion regarding its merits, I feel there simply isn't a market for it. In the US, Apple appears to be purely on a device replacement / upgrading cycle, in that the people buying iPhones do so when it's finally time to upgrade or if they are switching from Samsung. People are not leaving the Apple ecosystem. That much, I can be certain of. Instead, Apple's revenue will increasingly come from services and additional Apple hardware / accessories. That's why in the long run, the vision pro makes more sense than a galaxy fold clone, when you consider a consumer buying the vision pro in addition to the iPhone, rather than as a replacement for it.
Outside of the US, Apple's strength lies in its aspirational brand status and in its ecosystem. Expect more of their growth to come from developing countries where people move up the socioeconomic ladder and as their economy returns to the norm after years of disruptions caused by the pandemic. This will matter more to consumers than all the camera pixels or ram in the world.
Apple is no fool. They know what matters to their user base, and what doesn't.
The fact that companies are more global is a reason I'd want to see competition from outside the U.S. in a similar way I like seeing competition in the auto industry from companies outside the U.S. e.g., Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Jaguar, etc.
A phone and/or especially an operating system made by a company from Australia, Europe, etc. that is offered globally and is competitive with companies like Apple or Google would be very welcome. I'm not talking nearly as many companies as there are in the auto industry but at least a few more. Unfortunately, none have wanted to or been able to make a dent in the current Apple/Google mobile OS duopoly and as far as phone devices go, HMD Global/Nokia is the only European company that has any kind of meaningful market share but it's at the low end.
These aren't the people that Singapore is looking for.
Disillusioned at home, super-rich Chinese set their sights on Singapore
Singapore has long been a haven for ultra-rich foreigners. But it has seen a fresh influx of wealth since 2021 after it became one of the first Asian cities to significantly ease pandemic restrictions.
He's hoping that studying at a university in the Asian financial hub will lead to permanent residency and while the 26-year-old hits the books, his wife is out looking for a S$5-7 million ($4-5 million) penthouse.
"Singapore is great. It is stable and offers a lot of investment opportunities," Zhang told Reuters at a business and philanthropy forum here late last year. His family might establish a Singapore family office to manage its wealth in the future, he added.
Why China’s mega-rich are moving to Singapore’s safe haven
Beijing’s crackdowns on tech billionaires and tax-shy celebrities, plus three years of zero-Covid, have led many affluent Chinese to relocate to the city state, where some are shelling out US$800,000 for a bottle of whisky and US$670,000 a year for a club membership.
www.scmp.com
- Beijing’s crackdowns on tech billionaires and tax-shy celebrities, plus three years of zero-Covid, have led many affluent Chinese to relocate to the city state
- Some are shelling out US$800,000 for a bottle of whisky, US$61,000 for cigars and US$670,000 a year for membership to the exclusive Sentosa Golf Club
China’s rich flee crackdowns for ‘Asia’s Switzerland’ Singapore
Chinese wealth is rushing into the Southeast Asian city-state, prompting unease among some locals.
Bao, who has joined a long list of influential businessmen to suddenly disappear in China, is just one of a growing number of wealthy Chinese businesspeople who have looked to Singapore — dubbed the “Switzerland of Asia” — to escape Beijing’s crackdowns on private industry and corruption.
“Wealth has flooded into Singapore from China and Hong Kong in recent years,” a wealth manager at a Singaporean bank with a large number of Chinese clientele, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Al Jazeera.
“In confidential conversations, many of them have named the disappearances of Chinese business people along with uncertain economic times as primary reasons for moving money out of China,” the wealth manager said.
So if somebody wants a triple camera system device that is at least standard across the industry, they can either buy a £700 Android device or a £1100 iPhone? My point was Apple have set their own standard because they are the only manufacturer offering iOS, therefore have the power to artificially withhold these sorts of features and charge a significant premium, 'for those who need all the bells and whistles, or if it meets their needs'. You don't sound like you're talking from a consumer point of view with that opinion to be fair, you sound like you're justifying it because it is financially beneficial to you and your shares.
I am sure Apple is fine with a certain amount of people keeping their phones for 4 years, but they certainly wouldn't be making the money they are if a few hundred million people suddenly decided to adopt this strategy. Are the sorts of people who only change their iPhones once the battery is degraded or after the device has slowed down, the sorts of people that then suddenly drop £1200-£1759 on an iPhone though?
How does your explanation/defence of Apple's monetary strategy relate to you or I though? We all know they are a business and only interested in making immense amounts of money but why can't we complain that we feel short changed by incremental innovations and rising retails costs? I don't know of any other brand on earth where a company can offer small updates, but survive on their brand strength and have so many people celebrate them because they are making so much money. It seems alien to me, and I like to make sure I am getting the most for my money as a consumer.
I wouldn't buy a folding phone even if they did make one and think that is more driven by the Asian markets. Too much to break and no essential need here for a phone that unfolds into an iPad. I can't comment about the US market too much, but know the iPhone is the major player there whereas in Europe we have a wider choice with Android with iPhone only occupying 26% marketshare. The iPhone doesn't have a aspirational brand status in Western Europe because it is still a widely used brand despite being used by less users. The wealth scale is higher here than developing countries.
You say people don't care about the camera so much, but that is exactly the unique selling points in all our ads here for both iPhone and Android. My 13 Pro Max is essentially the same phone as the iPhone 12 I had before it, albeit it has a better camera. The speed of the device is identical, the interface is exactly the same and its a lot heavier. I think the camera is the only real stand out feature that is driving the market right now and Apple keeping a dual camera system for its standard models is way behind the times in 2023.