Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Actually it will likely be a hindrance as now Apple's legal team is going to need to sign off on any changes/upgrades to protect them from culpability and other issues.

Lawsuits aren't going to affect them any more than they ever have. Which is to say, hardly at all.

Apple's legal team is already responsible for crippling things, what with their insertion of "no navigation" software provisos in the SDK... along with the ridiciulous NDAs so that programmers can't even write books on how to legally program for the iPhone.

Not to mention Apple's visible efforts at locking down the phone, while pretending that it's all "accidental".

As for comparing to other phones and their 3G operations... the difference is, other phones don't have CEOs prancing around on stage making all sorts of performance and price claims... and releasing software clearly ahead of doing much testing.

I'm 55. I've seen many things come and go in the computer industry, and have been involved in many product launches. And lately, Apple is just plain screwing up. They need to slow down and do things right.
 
That being said, the specific issues with the iPhone may not qualify for a class action suit. Perhaps some of our members with law degrees could help. ;)
Oh I dunno, I've seen much weirder lawsuits... like the woman who wanted to sue because the manual for her RV didn't explain that cruise control doesn't function quite like autopilot (she activated cruise control and went in the back of the RV to get some stuff).

The product's name is "iPhone 3G". If it's neither capable of the "phone" part (it drops calls like crazy) nor the "3G" part (slow as molasses, poor signal, dropped calls), and they haven't been able to fix it nearly two months after the launch, then there is a more solid ground for a lawsuit here than there ever was for any of the umpteen lawsuits previously filed against Apple. Heck, the build quality issues alone (housing cracks, backlight leaks, dust under glass, power bricks catching fire etc) are more than plenty to drag the iPhone to court.
 
Class action lawsuits are for companies who knowingly sell defective products and have no plan to fix them or refund people's money.
You can think that, but it's not true at all.

Personally, I don't have any problem with Apple getting sued for this. Is anyone's phone as fast as the commercial? Even over wifi, I can't download a 300kb file as quickly as they do, nor can I do anything else in that ad that fast. It's flat out misleading and the 3g issue is real fact. When a phone can't deliver it's most primary and basic purpose due to defects or tech errors there is a justifiable issue and grounds/standing for a lawsuit.
 
I like it. No more free rides. When you imply a product is all trend setting and the next great thing and the standard to which everyone else will need to adhere, you'd damn well push something out the door that's ready for prime time and the 3G most definately was NOT ready for prime time when it went out the door. It wasn't ready, Apple wasn't ready, AT&T wasn't ready, MobileMe wasn't ready. None of it was. And, by and large, it's STILL not ready. Now what pisses me off are the people who like to split hairs with meaningless garbage like Apple claiming AT&T's network is faulty while AT&T claims there's a problem with the iPhone radio. Guess what, fellas? I don't give a sh*t about you or your lame excuses. I bought an iPhone from AT&T and that means you're in this together. If you don't want to grow up, act like big boys and fix this mess, then I'm all for a class action suit to MAKE them grow up and start meeting some expectations. And if Apple and AT&T wrote a check they can't cash, they should pay. Big. Maybe next time they'll think twice before implying they're god's gift to technology when they're just two more fat, bloated corporations who bow to the shareholder and ignore the customer.
 
Doesn't that idiot know that "It just works" is a marketing slogan and not a statement of fact ? How gullible. :rolleyes:
Tell that to the FTC.
There's this lovely law here in the US called "Truth in advertising".
If you advertise that your product can perform in a certain manner, it has to do it... as advertised. ;)

Will this go class action... dunno. But I'm sure it will get Apple's attention if it gets any serious press coverage.
 
I really think you guys who are all for the lawsuit are missing the boat here. If you buy it, and you dont like it, or it doesnt work to your standards, you can just RETURN it. The issues with false advertising and things of that nature all have to do with companies who WILL not give you back your money. Apple is being VERY generous (and they should) with refunds and exchanges.

The thing is, there is no REAL loss if you purchase this iphone. What can you really sue for? You can sue for the cost of the phone and get your money back, but who needs a lawyer for that. You can TRY to sue for lost calls or lost productivity, but then you are in hairy territory because that is all circumstantial.

Its plain and simple. if the device doesnt work the way you want it to, you are entitled to your money back.
 
Bzzzt....for about the 10000th time, returning the phone and getting the money back is the WRONG ANSWER. I couldn't care less about the money and I'm not returning the phone and I intend to bitch about it's gross shortcomings and bugs until they're properly addressed. If Apple and AT&T are content to drag their feet, I'm all for a class action suit to MAKE them do something about it. You people can whine about it all you want, I couldn't care less. If it were up to you, everyone would be stuck with this buggy piece of junk until it fell apart in their hands. I like the idea of the iPhone a lot. Now Apple is 6 weeks late on delivering the product THEY advertised. Not a single user is to blame for any of this. You want someone to point a finger at and judge? Point it at Apple.
 
The thing is, there is no REAL loss if you purchase this iphone. What can you really sue for? You can sue for the cost of the phone and get your money back, but who needs a lawyer for that. You can TRY to sue for lost calls or lost productivity, but then you are in hairy territory because that is all circumstantial.

What about people who paid an ETF because so they could get an iphone? How are they gonna get back their $175? Or people who left their grandfathered plans for an iphone? How do they get back their discontinued lucrative plans?
 
How do they get back their discontinued lucrative plans?
Whoa! There are phone plans where you MAKE money? ;)

Seriously though, any judge who even considers this case is going to default to letting Apple make amends before he/she starts awarding plaintiffs compensation for ETFs, etc. If Apple came out with an upgraded 3G chip and offered a free swap, their liability would most likely end there.
 
What about people who paid an ETF because so they could get an iphone? How are they gonna get back their $175? Or people who left their grandfathered plans for an iphone? How do they get back their discontinued lucrative plans?

No one MADE them do it. they took a chance in a product, and by doing so, they broke a contract to get that product. Apple didn't ask them or make them break that contract. They didnt say only 100 people are going to get an iphone so you better hurry.. the people who broke their contracts to go to ATT chose to do so and knew abotu the consequences of doing so. No company is required to cover any losses that happened before the customer actually made their purchase.

Maybe i should ask for my gas back from having to drive back and forth to the apple and ATT store too.. They should have had enough in stock in the first day@

also, a class action suit isnt going to MAKE them do anything faster because its a bogus suit. The way to get apple to move their feet faster would be if sales dropped significantly and people started returning.. but the thing is, people WANT to have the iphone, crappy service or not, otherwise they would have returned it. That means even though they have crappy service, and peopel know about it, they are STILL selling phones and people are STILL keeping, which means they are STILL making money. I'm sure they plan to appease the masses by upgrading SOMETHING to make teh network usable for hte iphone, but a lawsuit will not make that happen sooner.
 
People buy the IDEA of the iPhone. They buy the advertising. Then they lay out a ton of money, get home and discover the reality. They don't want another phone, they want what they bought. And there is the lawsuit. Seems perfectly reasonable to me to want what you paid for. This can easily be turned around also. For example, in what possible way would forcing Apple and AT&T to make it work correctly so negatively impact you that you're opposed to it? Are you an Apple stockholder? Do you oppose truth in advertising? Do you really believe Apple and AT&T are all warm and cuddly with the consumer and will totally keep our best interest first and foremost in their minds? Are you a lawyer?
 
No one MADE them do it. they took a chance in a product, and by doing so, they broke a contract to get that product. Apple didn't ask them or make them break that contract. They didnt say only 100 people are going to get an iphone so you better hurry.. the people who broke their contracts to go to ATT chose to do so and knew abotu the consequences of doing so. No company is required to cover any losses that happened before the customer actually made their purchase.

Really? So over one million people knew they would have an incredible amount of dropped calls, slow data speeds on 3G, bad to non-existant hand offs to and from UMTS from GSM, and the other silly issues the phone has?

iphone_lateralnav_promo.jpg


It clearly is a beta device and not ready for general consumer consumption. So far, the 3G is inferior in operatability and reliablilty compared to the original iPhone and other 'smartphones' at that.

I love the fanboys (and fangirls, of course) that make excuses for Apple as if it was their significant other who beats them. They rushed this to market and AT&T didn't have a chance to test it. Accept the fact Apple screwed up and hopefully will own up and fix their customer's (and fan's) issues and learn from their mistakes. They are n00bs to the phone market afterall.
 
Astonishing

It is astonishing to me to see the number of responses in this thread and others essentially blindly defending a corporation for false advertising and lack of disclosure in the face of what is obviously a defect. Or if not defending outright, attacking those paying customers who quite clearly are not receiving the service for which they have paid, significantly I might add.

I certainly don't consider myself a 'victim' in any sense, even though my 3g service has been as poor as many have reported here and in many other locations. But, anything that forces the offending party (Apple in this case, as I am in Canada and cannot attribute my issues to AT&T) to step up and rapidly address the issue is welcome news to me. And Apple, unfortunately, has a history of being forced into these sorts of things, as I am learning. Regardless of the outcome of this process, I will weigh that consideration very heavily in advance of my next investment in Apple product.
 
It is astonishing to me to see the number of responses in this thread and others essentially blindly defending a corporation for false advertising and lack of disclosure in the face of what is obviously a defect. Or if not defending outright, attacking those paying customers who quite clearly are not receiving the service for which they have paid, significantly I might add.

I certainly don't consider myself a 'victim' in any sense, even though my 3g service has been as poor as many have reported here and in many other locations. But, anything that forces the offending party (Apple in this case, as I am in Canada and cannot attribute my issues to AT&T) to step up and rapidly address the issue is welcome news to me. And Apple, unfortunately, has a history of being forced into these sorts of things, as I am learning. Regardless of the outcome of this process, I will weigh that consideration very heavily in advance of my next investment in Apple product.

So true. Thanks for posting this.
 
i am FAR from a "fan girl" but really, this is ridiculous. You get it home and it doesnt work the way you want and all that you are entitled to is a refund, like with ANY product. It sucks, and i get that.. but the thing is people WANT an iphone and people are STILL buying them even though now they know about it.

If all of you hate the iphone so much and are disappointed in it's worth, then just return it and get yoru money back. Thats fine. i agree, iw ould want to do the same, but i am happy with my 2G iphone. The thing is, people really WANT the iphone, so they WANT to keep it and they expect apple to fix everything, which they SHOULD do, but they dont HAVE to. A lawsuit is NOT going to do anything to get that done quicker. Apple put out a product that DOES make phone calls, DOES go on the internet, and do all the other stuff it was advertised to do. It is up to the consumer to decide if it does it to their liking, and if it doesnt, that is why there is a return policy.

Expecting an ETF refund from a company that didnt tell you to cancel your contract is just ridiculous.
 
Really? So over one million people knew they would have an incredible amount of dropped calls, slow data speeds on 3G, bad to non-existant hand offs to and from UMTS from GSM, and the other silly issues the phone has?

iphone_lateralnav_promo.jpg


It clearly is a beta device and not ready for general consumer consumption. So far, the 3G is inferior in operatability and reliablilty compared to the original iPhone and other 'smartphones' at that.

I love the fanboys (and fangirls, of course) that make excuses for Apple as if it was their significant other who beats them. They rushed this to market and AT&T didn't have a chance to test it. Accept the fact Apple screwed up and hopefully will own up and fix their customer's (and fan's) issues and learn from their mistakes. They are n00bs to the phone market afterall.

The thing is, though, not every iPhone 3G owner is having the same issues. While I'd like better 3G performance, it is indeed twice as fast as the 2G iPhone (for me) and it does everything Apple claimed it would do. Sure, there are some 'features' that bother me a little, but nothing that rises to the level of a legal issue.

I agree with lindsayanng with regard to the most effective course of action. Would Apple fix the problems more quickly based on a lawsuit or on a financial hit due to lost sales/returns? My money is on the latter. There are so many class action suits these days that I don't even pay attention to them any more. In my opinion, they seem to take years, don't really rectify the issue, and make a bunch of lawyers a boatload of money. Rarely have I seen an outcome that is truly meaningful to the members of the class.

On the other hand, if people would just exercise their right to return their defective phones, word would get out that there is a problem (as is happening prior to any lawsuit) and Apple would be forced to acknowledge and, hopefully, fix it. It's not going to take a lawsuit to make Apple throw a bunch of engineers at this problem as it's pretty obvious they are already working hard to stop the bleeding.

All of you claiming false advertising: What claims is Apple making that are universally false?
 
I love the fanboys (and fangirls, of course) that make excuses for Apple as if it was their significant other who beats them.

Yes, let's compare people with an opinion different than yours to wife beaters. The only people who call others fanboys usually have a hidden agenda themselves. :rolleyes:
 
??

Where in the world did you come up with this idea? So many ppl make broad sweeping statements like this with absolutely no knowledge or background. Class action lawsuits are NOT against companies who knowingly sell defective products and have no plan to fix them or refund people's money. There's no intent (scienter for you the legal heads) requirement at all.

Those of you who keep asking "why doesnt she just avail herself of the 30-day return policy" are completely missing the point of the class action lawsuit here, as well as forgetting that this doesn't solve the entirely plausible possibility that she could be beyond her 30 day return period. Or that she could even just have started experiencing these problems after the 2.0.1 release, which has happened to some people. Either way, her individual situation is not that important, as she is representing (or trying to represent) a class of consumers here.

The point is, she is suing for breach of an implied warranty. This is a breach of contract case. No intent for breach is required. If no express warranties/promises are made in the advertising or product packaging, then implied warranties are applied by operation of law. This means that you can sue even if they did not expressly promise that it will work. It is assumed when you buy a phone that it will reasonably function as a phone does. Normally, all that is required is that a Plaintiff did not receive the quality of the product that is to be reasonably expected, and that she suffered damages (monetary or the equivalent) as a result of the breach. Either the product was not of the same quality as those generally acceptable in the trade, was not fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used, was not adequately labeled/packaged, or did not measure up to the promises or facts stated.

This is similar to the Netflix class-action lawsuit in which it was found that they breached their advertisement claims that constantly asserted that in 2 days (I think) you would receive a new movie. You can ask why don't the subscribers just cancel the service, but again, that misses the point. As a class-action plaintiff you are representing an entire class of people who have not received the same quality of a product or service that was either promised or is to be reasonably expected.

One caveat is the requirement that Apple has been given reasonable notice and a reasonable time to remedy the defect. This is all up for interpretation, but I'd say 2 months is not unreasonable and people have certainly suffered the equivalent of monetary damages here (think lost minutes, lost data use -- all convertible to monetary value). I don't believe this lawsuit is THAT unreasonable, given the widespread nature, and that some people can't even make or receive calls more than half the time. If this was an issue contained to AT&T, Apple would certainly have a defense that they are not the ones at fault here, but this seems to be a worldwide issue affecting many, and could very well be a hardware defect.



Class action lawsuits are for companies who knowingly sell defective products and have no plan to fix them or refund people's money.

If you take your phone to AT&T or Apple, they will mostly likely replace it, or refund your money. So, where's the wrongdoing here?
 
There's no way this will have legs, because Apple hasn't really had a reasonable amount of time yet to fix the problem. And I'm pretty sure they'll eventually get it fixed, it's in their own best interest to do so.

Except for the fact that Apple's own advertising depicts the 3G iPhone functioning unrealistically fast. At a minimum, Apple is on shaky ground in regards to their advertising for the 3G iPhone.

I realize everyone wants to advertise their products in the best possible light, but does anyone's 3G iPhone function as quickly as the iPhone in Apple's 3G iPhone advertisement?

iPhone Advertising vs. Reality
 
No one MADE them do it. they took a chance in a product, and by doing so, they broke a contract to get that product. Apple didn't ask them or make them break that contract. They didnt say only 100 people are going to get an iphone so you better hurry.. the people who broke their contracts to go to ATT chose to do so and knew abotu the consequences of doing so. No company is required to cover any losses that happened before the customer actually made their purchase.

Right, they expected a functional iphone, which they didn't get. There wouldn't be a problem if iphone worked as advertised.

Maybe i should ask for my gas back from having to drive back and forth to the apple and ATT store too.. They should have had enough in stock in the first day@

Apple never said that there would be enough supply to fulfill demand. Apple and ATT say this though: "it just works." "iphone 3G. Twice as fast. Half the price." "more bars, more places."

also, a class action suit isnt going to MAKE them do anything faster because its a bogus suit. The way to get apple to move their feet faster would be if sales dropped significantly and people started returning.. but the thing is, people WANT to have the iphone, crappy service or not, otherwise they would have returned it.

Are you so sure about that? The threat of a class action lawsuit is what forced MS to extend the warranty to 3 years for its defective xbox 360 console.
 
It is Apple's own marketing that's made people feel the way they feel. After all, with phrases constantly being spewed by the "genius'" such as 'it just works,' what else are people suppose to expect? It's apple that's made themselves look like they'll deliver a revolutionary and perfect phone so it's their job to uphold it. I do think that the lawsuit is frivolous but if it hurts apple a bit and makes them unleash a better product before filling the airwaves with BS I'm all for it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.