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Class Action lawsuit filed against Apple

I'll be on my 4th iPhone 3G once the Apple Store here actually gets the service phones in stock again.

Hardware-wise the first one had a dead pixel and cracked at the dock connector and the headphone jack.

The replacement for that phone started splitting at the seams next to the Silent/Ring switch, and also cracked at the headphone jack and dock connector.

The replacement for *that* phone (which is the phone I'm currently using until replacements arrive again..) has cracked on the headphone jack and the dock connector, again... and has dust under the glass.

Amongst all of these phones I've had *very* spotty 3G coverage in Bellevue/Seattle/Redmond of all places... and consistently will get 10-12 'calls failed' while having 4-5 bars of 3G service, which is really annoying because if you don't press 'call back' soon enough you have to go through the names all over again to call again.

I only had the 'bubble in glue under glass' issue on my 1st-gen iPhone 8GB (also bought on launch day) and they replaced that without any other mention of anything else.

In Apple's defense though, all of their employee's know me by name now at the store and actually gave me pizza and let me use their employee bathroom when I was there for NINE HOURS on launch day figuring out issues with my account on the phone with AT&T. They accidentally used *my* 3G upgrade on my mom's phone, so me and the Apple manager on duty, walked to the AT&T store in the mall (which of course was sold out of iPhones of their own hah!) and they reset everything and then it all worked. Finally. The people I was on the phone with didn't do anything, it wasn't until I walked up one of them that they fixed it (the manager there as well).

Also my girlfriend has a white iPhone 3G and she just got hers replaced for cracks on the (guess what!) headphone jack and dock connector!

Guess where my friends iPhone 3G has also cracked? Yup. You're right, the headphone jack and the dock connector.

There is something seriously wrong with the plastic backing on these phones, we're all known for babying our electronics, my Core Duo MacBook looked damn near *new* when I mailed it in for repair for a faulty SuperDrive, and a failed repair and the run-around with AppleCare, they mailed me a new C2D Penryn MacBook, which I've had the last 6 months and is working perfectly and still looks like new.

I'm a techie, and I'm that guy that always has things first and takes good care of what he has, cleaning screens/keyboards/cases, and only ever with what is suggested by the company that makes whichever device.

It's really too bad I expect good things from Apple based on how they've taken care of me in the past, but they've set me up for it with all of what they've helped me with on my MacBook and my sister's MBP and my friends MBP and my first iPhone, so well, I expect this to be fixed. They fixed my GF's and other friends White MacBook's stained keyboard's in store and we left with them fully repaired and both of them were happy. And Apple has been more than willing to keep replacing my iPhone until I have iPhone replacement orders as bedding. Too bad they're always out of stock on the 16GB Black service phones because of it's popularity...

2.0.2 unsync'd all of my apps and they wouldn't go back until I deleted them all and re-downloaded them (and this only worked from the computer, if I downloaded them on the phone they would unsync off of the device again) to fix whatever DRM issues 2.0.2 brought with it. And I still get glitchy/dropped/failed calls all the time with 3-5 bars *everywhere* of 3G service. I believe what Apple says that the 3G issue can and will be done with a firmware/software update, but that still means I'll have a cracking/horrible case.

Not to mention the keyboard in SMS and other Apps still lags HORRIBLY and often now when connecting my phone to my car-stereo I get a 'iPod No Songs' error (only since 2.0.2), and I have to restart my phone and wait for it to power back up, start playing a song on it, then connect it to the car, and then wait for it to settle before actually leaving wherever I'm parked because I don't want to fumble my phone while driving..

I'm sure I'll think of something else to add, but I'm amazed this lawsuit doesn't mention the defective software with App syncing issues, horrendously long backups, laggy keyboard, issues with 3rd party accesories, and crashing apps and laggy contacts app.

I really hope that 2.1 fixes at least all of the software issues with the phone, because it definitely feels like Beta right now...
 
Ampidire said:
I'm sure I'll think of something else to add, but I'm amazed this lawsuit doesn't mention the defective software with App syncing issues, horrendously long backups, laggy keyboard, issues with 3rd party accesories, and crashing apps and laggy contacts app.

I really hope that 2.1 fixes at least all of the software issues with the phone, because it definitely feels like Beta right now...
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Unfortunately, the software issues related to Apps and the App store are much more elusive and harder to pin down to Apple, since it involves third parties as well, and the question of whether third-party apps have any contributory fault.

Also, there is the issue of it not being a completely fundamental core function of the phone (definitely not on the same level as connectivity issues/reception/dropped calls is). I too wish they could address this in the lawsuit, but from a legal standpoint, I could see that being a real doozy to prove, as well as difficult to argue that it is part of the express or implied warranties. On the other hand, the chronic issue of the iphone's case cracking is definitely something that could be included I think.

I share many of the same problems and frustrations as you. Here's to hoping for a solution, whether through software updates (hopefully) or legal pressure for a recall (worst case scenario).
 
thge thing is that there are iphone 3Gs out there that DO work as advertised. And as far as what they show on the net, I can bet that the phone COULD work that fast, but it will never work that fast for everyone, and i think there is even a disclaimer there that speeds may vary.

I mean, i cant sue the frosted flakes company for using fake flakes and fake milk in their cereal ads. Making a statement and showing a picture is just showing what it is capable of, not how it will actually work in everyone's hands.

For all the peopel complaining, there are also people who have phones that work perfectly fine.. so the fact that apple IS making exchanges and are offering money back, and they are offering upgrades and fixes for certain bugs mean that they are working out the situation> There is NO basis for this lawsuit and you will all see that when it actually goes to court
 
Ampidire said:
Amongst all of these phones I've had *very* spotty 3G coverage in Bellevue/Seattle/Redmond of all places... and consistently will get 10-12 'calls failed' while having 4-5 bars of 3G service, which is really annoying because if you don't press 'call back' soon enough you have to go through the names all over again to call again.
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One thing I wanted to point out (not to you specifically) is that a lot of people are quoting "bars of service" as if it's indicative of signal quality. Unfortunately (and I don't think any phones show this well) "bars" as are shown on the phone show only signal strength, not signal quality. You could have 4-5 bars (meaning you can pick up the channel just fine) but be in an area of heavy network traffic, meaning interference and signal noise, meaning you don't get a signal that's worth anything for calling or internet usage. Not saying that some people's phones don't actually have problems, but it's probably more a mix of the two -- Apple's mass production of phones and AT&T's sudden uptick in 3G users (this would also count for other carriers).

Anyway, there are plenty of people out there that have no issues at all (myself included) so it's a shame to see that some are having continual problems. I hope you (Ampidire) eventually get all your problems fixed. It really sucks to keep getting phones with cracking cases. I guess I'm lucky that my launch day 3G hasn't had that issue at all. And the software issues, etc. They do really need to get on the ball more, but I'm not sure this is all really worth a lawsuit -- Apple does appear to be trying, at least.
 
lindsayanng said:
thge thing is that there are iphone 3Gs out there that DO work as advertised. And as far as what they show on the net, I can bet that the phone COULD work that fast, but it will never work that fast for everyone, and i think there is even a disclaimer there that speeds may vary.

I mean, i cant sue the frosted flakes company for using fake flakes and fake milk in their cereal ads. Making a statement and showing a picture is just showing what it is capable of, not how it will actually work in everyone's hands.

For all the peopel complaining, there are also people who have phones that work perfectly fine.. so the fact that apple IS making exchanges and are offering money back, and they are offering upgrades and fixes for certain bugs mean that they are working out the situation> There is NO basis for this lawsuit and you will all see that when it actually goes to court
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Are you a lawyer? Because you are talking like you have legal expertise in this, yet you have no idea what you are talking about.

Just because there are iphone 3G's out there that DO work as advertised doesn't mean there is no basis for a lawsuit. The way class action lawsuits work is not to prove that every single product sold is defective. There are complex formulas and percentages and market studies used. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be. Do you have any idea what the #'s are? I don't. But the point is that there could be a basis for this if enough people are affected. Just because you own a phone that works doesn't mean you're in the majority. The world just might not revolve around you.

And no one is saying that they should be sued over their commercial showing how fast the speed can be. We all know that there are disclaimers saying that individual speeds may vary. No one actually believes it can browse that fast. The speed at which they are browsing and downloading that email attachment is almost quicker than my broadband connection on my iMac.

What they CAN be sued over is that they are delivering a product that is not functioning as one could reasonably expect it to, and that it is affecting enough people (yet to be determined). I don't think most people are complaining that it is not as fast as the commercial, but just want a phone that can make and receive calls without dropping constantly and also not receiving ANY signal when there should be. How is that unreasonable?

Also, if you are over the 30-day period, how are you going to get a refund? Many ppl have also gotten turned away from a replacement because Apple employees have said to people that they are aware of the problem and that a replacement won't fix the problem. Ever think of that?

And just because you were so emphatic about this -- if the lawsuit has absolutely no basis, it will not even make it to "court" as you put it. Apple's lawyers would file a motion to dismiss and the judge would grant it well before either side prepares for trial. Get your facts straight first.
 
Have you tried this?

Restore your iphone 3G to the original settings after updating to the newest 2.0.2 software patch. After that, sync it back to how you had it. I did that and I now have full bars.
 
I am not a lawyer, but i run, operate, and partially own a big manufacturing company and deal with corporate lawyers and advertising lawyer/agencies all the time. I understand the market and know what is required when you advertise and what can be embelished upon. ALL advertisements make things seem bigger and better than they are, and teh BIGGEST arguement that i have seen FOR this lawsuit is people saying "well the commercial says twice as fast, half the price, ect"

If the only issue is that the product does not work as expected and does not meet your personal quality standards. then you have every right to return it, get a different phone, and wait until it does meet those standards. You purchased the phone not REALLY knowing what your own individual speeds would be, but the fact is that they CAN be what is advertised, and the phone CAN be everything they say it is. You just have to be in the right place. And there ARE people who feel that the phone does meet their standards and they have no issue with it. That in itself makes it a useless lawsuit. The phone IS capable of it, and if that particular phone is not, apple has been swapping them. If its not the individual phone, then its the network..

To me, the lawsuit just puts another wrench in productivity and shows how sue happy people really are. Its an item that didnt live up to your expectations, i have had that MANY MANY times, have you ever heard of ANY other company getting sued for it?
 
scaredpoet said:
Oooh, a very passionate user with only 3 posts. I smell Plaintiff. :)
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No, this is just what happens when a niche company with a small but blindly loyal user base tries to transform itself into a mass market entity, all the while assuming the same blind loyalty from new customers who care mostly about just getting what they pay for. Apple has an entirely different set of expectations to meet now, and it does not appear to many (including myself) that they are prepared for it. I wish that weren't true, but the facts speak for themselves.

Again, I won't comment on the basis of the lawsuit, I am no expert re: the litigation happy US legal system. I do think it is about time that Apple is held up to the same standards as everyone else though, least of all to the standards they most loudly proclaim for themselves in their often smug product positioning.
 
Unfortunately, understanding the market and advertising does not give you an understanding of whether this lawsuit is "useless". The biggest argument for this lawsuit has NOTHING to do with the commercial. It is that thousands of people worldwide have claimed to have major reception problems (possibly caused by defective hardware) and that it is reasonable to expect when you buy a phone, that it will be able to make/receive calls in areas they claim it will work. Whether the phone CAN perform well is not relevant, it is whether it DOES in real life situations.

And again, the fact that there ARE some ppl who don't have issues does not make the lawsuit useless. It all comes down to #'s, but it sounds like you've already done the research and know the percentages.

I agree this country is overly litigious. Flashback to McDonald's getting sued for making their coffee too hot. Ridiculous stuff. This doesn't mean companies should not be held liable for making defective products that work for only X% of the people. And yes, I have heard of other companies getting sued for not living up to expectations. It's not personal expectations they have to live up to, it is warranties in contract and in law.


lindsayanng said:
I am not a lawyer, but i run, operate, and partially own a big manufacturing company and deal with corporate lawyers and advertising lawyer/agencies all the time. I understand the market and know what is required when you advertise and what can be embelished upon. ALL advertisements make things seem bigger and better than they are, and teh BIGGEST arguement that i have seen FOR this lawsuit is people saying "well the commercial says twice as fast, half the price, ect"

If the only issue is that the product does not work as expected and does not meet your personal quality standards. then you have every right to return it, get a different phone, and wait until it does meet those standards. You purchased the phone not REALLY knowing what your own individual speeds would be, but the fact is that they CAN be what is advertised, and the phone CAN be everything they say it is. You just have to be in the right place. And there ARE people who feel that the phone does meet their standards and they have no issue with it. That in itself makes it a useless lawsuit. The phone IS capable of it, and if that particular phone is not, apple has been swapping them. If its not the individual phone, then its the network..

To me, the lawsuit just puts another wrench in productivity and shows how sue happy people really are. Its an item that didnt live up to your expectations, i have had that MANY MANY times, have you ever heard of ANY other company getting sued for it?
Click to expand...
 
xoph3 said:
No, this is just what happens when a niche company with a small but blindly loyal user base tries to transform itself into a mass market entity...

...the standards they most loudly proclaim for themselves in their often smug product positioning.
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You're actually Steve Ballmer, aren't you?
 
I bet the lawers over at apple have a running office pool on how many days til someone files a class action suit after a product launches.
 
it does give me a good understand of what would be a lawsuit that can hold no water and one that can. When we go in to do out marketing and such, we have to make sure that whatever we say or claim will not come back and bite us. We make sump pumps that can pump up to 3800 gallons per hour. We advertise it as a 3800GPH pump with a charger back up system and a bunch of other goodies. That doesnt mean that when your basment floods, your pump is going to put out 3800gph. So even though we advertise it, it is based on the way the product is situated, the updates it has been given, the quality of the water it is pumping.. very simliar to the cell phone. It depends on where you are standing, the last updates and software you might have added, ect.. Just because it is advertised as that does not mean it HAS to perform that way.

When you advertise something, it has to be true. The thing is, it ONLY has to be true in whatever situation you put it in. So the disclaimer that speeds may vary covers them for eveything . If its not about the advertising of its speed, then what it is about?

The phone does eventaully conntect to the net, i can make calls, and do anything else it is supposed to, just not at the speeds and reliabilty that you want
 
Trajectory said:
You're actually Steve Ballmer, aren't you?
Click to expand...

Wrong again. Wrong place for a productive, or at least mature discussion of this issue perhaps as well, and I consider myself slapped on the wrist. Now back to your regular gated community broadcast....
 
lindsayanng said:
If its not about the advertising of its speed, then what it is about?

The phone does eventaully conntect to the net, i can make calls, and do anything else it is supposed to, just not at the speeds and reliabilty that you want
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you don't get it do you? a lot of ppl can't make or receive calls, with such a large % of dropped calls as to make the core function of the phone completely unreliable. what does that have to do with the commercial? isn't that just a general expectation when you buy a phone it will at least be able to do that?

i get it. you can make calls. you don't have those problems. can you really not fathom that others (and maybe many others) were not so lucky.
 
but it CAN make and it CAN receive calls, just not in the particular area that you are standing in. I know of a TON of people who have razr phones on ATT who get an insane amount of dropped calls and it has nothign to do with the phone. its the network. Or in this case, its a combination of the phone and the network most likely.. Either way, it is capable of making calls.
 
maybe this will make you see the REAL issues in a different light

The dropped calls and 3G issues are effecting 2%-3% of all iphone customers. The usually number of people who experience dropped calls on ATT's service is 1% of people. Now that 1% is actually only people who complained. There are probably a LOT more peopel complaining about their iphone than about their free phone, so even that number is skewed a tad.. either way you look at it, the issues with the iphone is not nearly as signficant as you think

Reference link
 
Not to add fuel to the fire, but I've experienced 2 dropped calls the last week. My iphone was very hot when my calls were dropped. I've never had a dropped call before.
 
lindsayanng said:
but it CAN make and it CAN receive calls, just not in the particular area that you are standing in. I know of a TON of people who have razr phones on ATT who get an insane amount of dropped calls and it has nothign to do with the phone. its the network. Or in this case, its a combination of the phone and the network most likely.. Either way, it is capable of making calls.
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Um, I live in Manhattan. I'm pretty sure we're covered. And people worldwide are experiencing these issues, it's not just AT&T. You clearly have not done your research on this.

You don't seem to realize that many ppl have phones that CANT make and receive calls reliably, even in areas where they definitely should have coverage.

I've learned my lesson here also, definitely not the place to discuss these kinds of things.
 
BlackMax said:
Except for the fact that Apple's own advertising depicts the 3G iPhone functioning unrealistically fast. At a minimum, Apple is on shaky ground in regards to their advertising for the 3G iPhone.

I realize everyone wants to advertise their products in the best possible light, but does anyone's 3G iPhone function as quickly as the iPhone in Apple's 3G iPhone advertisement?

iPhone Advertising vs. Reality
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exactly, and there's no disclaimer or any commentary that it's not actual speed. in fact the whole ad does nothing but brag about how fast it is, and then they deliver phones that clearly do not work as fast as they do in the commercials.
 
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