Clearing out G5s?

[seraphnyc]

So many doubts

What I do not understand is the passion with which people are stating - 3Ghz G5's are not coming, Steve Jobs has no power over IBM Fabrication problems, blah blah blah.

Does anyone here work for IBM or Apple in such a way that they CAN be as passionate and overflowing with negativity as they are?[Pointing to websites does not consititute insider information, it is public information of which none says "NO 3Ghz G5!"]

I love speculation on things that have yet to come, wondering how cool it will be, how fast it will feel, WHAT INCREDIBLE NEW GAMES IT CAN KICK THE PCs ASS IN, but to speculate on the side of negativity is rather dull. The facts are:

- Steve Jobs and [you wouldn't believe how many people over look this] chairman of IBM stated that they would reach 3Ghz within 1 year of announcing the G5.

-IBM had fabrication and yield problems using the 90nanometer process for the PPC 970fx.

-XServe G5's using the PPC 970fx have been shipping.

Judging from these 3 things speculations are bound to happen, but to read such passionate arguments against the possibility of the G5 reaching 3Ghz almost reads like some Mac users do not want the G5 to reach 3Ghz. I know some qualify it by saying 'I hope it does reach 3Ghz' at the end of the '3Ghz G5 don't exist and won't for some time' rant.

For arguments sake, and the sake of sanity, let's say it is up in the air and we'd just have to wait and see, but it is starting to sound [<---keyword] like these rumor site's forums are being hit by Windows zealots hoping to rain on the G5 parade.

We have some incredible technology [64bit processor with 32bit backwards compatibility, high-end system architectures and a giant in tech manufacturing like IBM] on our side that the potential to kick the crap out of Intels' and AMDs' line up. Why not air on the side of positivity and hope for a) a statement (he did not CLEARLY promise) come to fruition and b) maybe some REALLY BIG surprises in the realm of new Hardware [both consumer and pro-sumer] and some new software to exploit the power of the G5 to it's fullest.

BTW, I am not a pessimist nor an optimist... I make my judgements and base my hopes on reality.

S.

 

[Foocha]

Apple PR strategy & why WWDC is not a "pro" event

As I recall, last year, two weeks after MWSF, Apple released G4 updates. Why didn't Steve Jobs announce them during the keynote? Because the updates were not that hot, so he chose to stick with software announcements instead.

The reason Apple sometimes makes product annoucements during Steve Jobs keynotes is to get maximum press attention - if the product update is likely to get negative press coverage (e.g. Steve Jobs dissappoints WWDC crowds with a minor speed bump that falls short for previous promises), Apple will not announce it at a keynote - they'll quietly release it one Tuesday morning - ideally when there are much bigger stories going on for c|net to cover.

If the next G5 revision is minor, they will announce it when its ready, probably prior to WWDC - no point to wait till WWDC and then disappoint the crowds (and distract press attention from Tiger).

If there's no announcement before WWDC, then I think its reasonable to assume a major update with a significant speed-bump.

Finally, WWDC is not a "pro" event, it's a developer event - developers work on both "pro" and home products, and so an iMac announcement would be just as relevant as a desktop announcement - less likely to hear news about iPod, since there aren't may 3rd party developers for this product line.

 

[AidenShaw]

Because in about 7 days I'll be buying for my business:

One high-end dual 2Ghz G5 with 23" Apple display.

Hmmm, before you spring for that display, try to compare the Apple display side-by-side with the Samsung 24".

• the 243T is slightly larger (1", pitch 0.270mm vs. 0.258mm)
• the 243T is brighter (300 cd/m2 vs. 250 cd/m2)
• the 243T has more contrast (500:1 vs. 350:1)
• the 243T has an adjustable height/tilt stand with portrait/landscape rotation
• the 243T has a narrow bezel
• the 243T has a standard VESA mount for 3rd party stands and arms (e.g. http://www.ergotron.com/3_products/flat_panel/default.asp)
• the 243T is not made of clear plastic

It really is time for Apple to update their LCD displays.... If you look at them side-by-side, there's definitely a difference. (In addition to the fashion problem that brushed aluminum and lucite don't match.)

 

[Macmaniac]

I don't care anymore what they release, as long as its $100 across the line cheaper and with better graphics cards across the line! Come on Apple I want to buy my Mac gaming machine, update!

 

[seraphnyc]

Finally, WWDC is not a "pro" event, it's a developer event - developers work on both "pro" and home products, and so an iMac announcement would be just as relevant as a desktop announcement - less likely to hear news about iPod, since there aren't may 3rd party developers for this product line.

Well said, the whole "Pro conference only with only Pro hardware" thing was getting to me too much to say anything.

Being a Developer of Multimedia content, DVD Authoring and a Proprietary Programmer[I write sotware for in-house corporate use] I work on everything from Pro Desktops to the eMac. I have been to the WWDC twice and can say... IT IS A DEVELOPER CONFERENCE and developers work on all sorts of Machines i.e. one of the main programmers for porting Knights of the Old Republic is developing and porting the game on an 800mhz G4 that is well below spec for the game; would you currently call this a "Pro" machine. The name 'Developer' [WWDC the 'D' stand for Developer] does not mean Pro hardware.

 

[the future]

Hmmm, before you spring for that display, try to compare the Apple display side-by-side with the Samsung 24".

The Samsung display is not part of the "brilliant savings" promo, though...

 

[TyleRomeo]

If they're only clearing out the 1.6 machines then doesn't
1.8, 2 and 2.2 look more realistic?

i_b_joshua

no

 

[~Shard~]

All signs point to.... G5 PowerBooks!!!

Seriously, I think this is a good indication that updates are coming, but how big of an update will all depend on the timing. If Apple can't pull off 3 GHz PowerMacs as promised, there is no reason to showcase them at WWDC - the crowd won't be very responsive to a 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 GHz product line update, and that's just the way it is. So if Apple is going to release something like this, less than 3 GHz, then there is no need to wait for WWDC for it - they might as well announce them right now. If nothing is announced before WWDC, there might be a chance that the 3 GHz G5s will make an appearance. But, if 2.0/2.2/2.4 (or whatever) are announced at WWDC, I fear that the 3 GHzs are a LONG ways away, because that means Apple essentially considers that speed bump a major event... Plus, only bumping up 200 and 400 MHz in an entire year? Maybe Motorola could get away with that, but not IBM and these G5s - that would be a huge disappointment for many people.

 

[mgargan1]

i work at an apple reseller, and like the original article is talking about, i haven't seen any discount on the g5, and we do have some adc people. Now, as for the stock of G5's it's limited, we just ordered 2 2.0GHz machines, and only two, cause we don't want something else to come out. But it is hard to get them right now.

As for the specs of the new machines, i'm not going to say that we will have 3.0GHz machines, but i do think that we are going to get them... my logic here, (not saying I'm right), is that I think Steve doesn't wanna not put out a 3GHz machine, and that's why we didn't get any update sooner, so that when he does announce a new machine, he can say... "and we're announcing the largest speed update in history!" and so on and so forth... just my opinion, we'll find out in a month now wont we?

 

[Capt. Obvious]

Ok, if I could get a 1.6 G5 for $1299 I would buy one RIGHT NOW. How do I get this hook up?

Seriously.

Buy an ADC Select membership for $500 US.
Seriously.

 

[Wonder Boy]

besides the lack high end g5's being involved, how is this a bad thing? or more importantly, how is this a surprising thing? they had to start clearing inventory eventually...

 

[achbed]

Double-dipping

I also understand that the 1.6 machines are being aggressively cleared out by Apple Direct sales. It seems they're starting to try push the machines out at a price below their current dealer cost - I'm sure the EOL price breaks should be out any day now...

 

[segundo]

this info is confirmed in France by macbidouille.com/hardmac.com
it is here:
http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2004-05-27#2186
and this is not a rumor, this simply a fact...

now this corraltes quite well with the rumor from croquer.free.fr regarding the future PMG5 Trinity to be announced at the WWDC...

It doesn't correlate with the 975 rumors whatsoever. It does correlate with the assumption/rumors of updated G5 systems at WWDC but that is all. Nothing about low stock should lead anyone to assume we will see 975's.

 

[Sebas00]

I think we will see these:
2.2/2.4/2.6ghz dual
Intel's PCI express

 

[johnnyjibbs]

I think we will get a major bump to G5s because we've effectively missed a revision. That's why Apple site recently had all those press quotes about the G5 being really good - to cover up the fact that it was overdue for a revision.

They'll be updated majorly at WWDC to be sure. And Apple will garner press attention for having the world's fastest personal computers again. Could be 3GHz, otherwise, I'd expect 2.6-2.8GHz at least.

Secondly, this WWDC will be a good one because, in addition to major new G5s and Tiger preview, we will also see G5 iMacs - probably at 1.6 and 1.8 or even 2.0 GHz as previously stated. It's obvious the iMacs will go G5 because they have missed the recent revision and currently sit very out-of-date and overpriced in Apple's lineup. If they weren't getting ready to unleash G5 iMacs, we would have seen a 1.5GHz 17/20" iMac by now and a 1.25/1.33 GHz 15" model (or maybe even can the 15"er). There's no other reason to explain why the iMacs have not been updated yet.

 

[sinisterdesign]

im running a 1.6 right now and its a great machine.. Best Mac I have ever used.! stop trashing it..

there with you. it's not the speediest boat in the lake, but my company just upgraded me to this 1.6 from a 400MHz G4 so it feels like "Earth Simulator" by comparison.

thank god, too. i was about to pitch that Sawtooth out the window. it was a great machine when i got one just like it when i worked at Apple like 5 years ago...

off topic, but now that i have one here beside me, the 'cheese grater' case has really grown on me. so sleek, so tactile.

 

[fpnc]

As for the ADC discounts on the 1.6GHz G5s:

Buy an ADC Select membership for $500 US.
Seriously.

That's incorrect. When you purchase your initial ADC Select membership you don't earn any hardware discounts. For Select memberships you only get the discounts after you renew your membership for a second year. Thus, the total outlay for Select members is at least $1000 (i.e. two years at $500 each). To get the discount in the first year you need to be a premier member at a cost of $3500 (for membership).

This fact is pretty much hidden in the small print of the ADC Select membership. The headlines state that Select members are eligible for hardware discounts, it's only after you dig fairly deeply into the details that you find that Select members only get the discounts after they renew for a second year.

UPDATE, okay forget what I said here. The offer for the 1.6GHz Power Macs appears to be a special deal. You apparently don't need any ADC hardware discount assets to qualify for this offer.

 

[itsa]

If they're only clearing out the 1.6 machines then doesn't
1.8, 2 and 2.2 look more realistic?

i_b_joshua

It would be more realistic....but I hope you are wrong!
I was wishing the 2gigers would be the low end after the next update.
At this point I'm thinking we will be lucky to see much of a bump at all.

Why is Apple (the makers of the leading OS) sooooo far behind in prossing speeds?

 

[jelloshotsrule]

As for the ADC discounts on the 1.6GHz G5s:



That's incorrect. When you purchase your initial ADC Select membership you don't earn any hardware discounts. For Select memberships you only get the discounts after you renew your membership for a second year. Thus, the total outlay for Select members is at least $1000 (i.e. two years at $500 each). To get the discount in the first year you need to be a premier member at a cost of $3500 (for membership).

This fact is pretty much hidden in the small print of the ADC Select membership. The headlines state that Select members are eligible for hardware discounts, it's only after you dig fairly deeply into the details that you find that Select members only get the discounts after they renew for a second year.

i can confirm this

my g5 order last year (via adc) was rejected because we have to wait a year and renew... quite a bite in the arse, but makes some sense.

 

[~Shard~]

It would be more realistic....but I hope you are wrong!
I was wishing the 2gigers would be the low end after the next update.
At this point I'm thinking we will be lucky to see much of a bump at all.

Why is Apple (the makers of the leading OS) sooooo far behind in prossing speeds?

Nah, if they're clearing out the 1.6 G5s it's because when Apple announces the new speed bumps up to 3 GHz @ WWDC, the 1.6 G5s will seem completely useless and slow!

 

[snooziums]

Keep the 1.6 G5s!

I am looking for a new computer to replace my aging Power Computing Macintosh clone. Yes, this machine has been through several upgrades, however, I can only upgrade it so far. It is currently running Mac OS 10.1.

I need to be able to use my SCSI and standard ATA drives, which use PCI cards to access them. Having standard PCI cards is very important, as I have yet to see any PCI-X cards on the market. In addition to having PCI cards for standard ATA and SCSI (both internal and for external drives), I also have a PCI card that allows for five USB ports including one internal port (inside of the computer), as well as both firewire 400 and 800.

Since the new PowerMacs do not seem to have any internal drive bays, the Zip, Jaz, PCMCIA card readers, and Tape drives mush be placed externally, however that requires having an external SCSI port, which no new Macintosh comes with, thus I have to keep the SCSI PCI card.

The 1.6 GHz PowerMac G5 appears to be the only new Macintosh that will run standard PCI cards. The 1.8 and 2.0 have PCI-X expansion slots, which are incompatible with any normal PCI cards, and there does not appear to be any PCI-X cards on the market right now.

If Apple cuts the PowerMac G5 1.6 tower, they will be cutting out the use of PCI cards when there are no PCI-X cards yet on the market. So, basically, the 1.6 G5 tower needs to stay, or Apple needs to find a way to use older PCI cards, or they need to come out with some PCI-X ATA and SCSI, controllers.

 

[gorkonapple]

is the imac (ie, a consumer machine) really going to be discussed at this show for professionals?

i don't think it's really been done before


i believe that the 1.6 with the adc discount is 1299 bucks. which is great. but, it's still not really "worth" just buying because of the price... i mean, the machine ain't all that great.

One of my pastors at church works as a graphic artist and his whole office uses G4 iMacs so it's not far fetched. iMac's fit in where you don't want/need the flexibility or power of a PowerMac.

 

[jsnuff1]

3 Ghz proccessors are coming. Jobs had plenty of chances, expecially with the IBM yeild problems anouncment to say that they would not be able to meet this goal, but he didnt and WWDC is a few weeks away. There is no way in hell the he would wait untill WWDC to announce that 3GHz isent coming. There would be hell to pay and he knows it. Plus it would not make sense as a buisness move. They need to sell more PM and if they knew they wouldnt be able to reach 3Ghz they would have announced it and those people waiting for 3Ghz to upgrade would have just bought the 2Ghz machines.

Im betting Jobs will wow us with
-3Ghz 975, 980 or whatever you want to call them @ 130nm
-Revamped system bus
-PCI Express with those nice new graphics cards from ATI
-More storage space and dual optical drives

 

[AidenShaw]

Having standard PCI cards is very important, as I have yet to see any PCI-X cards on the market.

You can plug PCI cards into PCI-X slots (unless you have the old 5v PCI cards, and you can't even plug those into most new PCI slots). Doesn't the Mac support this? (the Apple store says that the FC card for a G5 is PCI)

Even the new PCI-X 2 (up to 533 MHz) is backwards compatible:

http://www.pcisig.com/specifications/pcix_20/

 

[hervon]

OEM Radeon 9800 is out of stock

Hi all,

I just noticed that any BTO G5s with an OEM Radeon 9800 has a delivery time of 4 - 6 weeks meaning they are OUT of Stock of OEM Radeon 9800. We can speculate that they are waiting for the arrival of new material.

Some earlier rumors speculated that Apple waited for ATI to deliver a new card... ;-)