Clearing out G5s?

[ImAlwaysRight]

Oh how quickly we forget history...

Ha ha ha, all this blind faith we will see 3GHz announced in a month. No wonder so many are let down when these dates come and reality sets in.

THINK ABOUT IT ... we don't even have 2.2GHz G5, which should have come out at least in January. Here it is end of May, over 9 months since the dual 2.0 G5 has been shipping, and we STILL have dual 2.0GHz as the high end. Yet many of you believe dual 3.0 in a month ... ha! I have some ocean front property in Kansas to sell ya!

My bets would be the best we will see is dual 2.0/2.2/2.4, because history has shown when Apple can't speed bump its machines, they go to duals just to make the consumer feel like they are getting something. Those of you who believe 3.0GHz is for the next round are gonna be mighty disappointed. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw dual 1.8/2.0/2.2 for the next bump. After all, Apple isn't even discounting the dual 1.8, which tells you something. I prefer to look at Apple's history. It really does show how they do business in the present.

 

[whooleytoo]

i can confirm this

my g5 order last year (via adc) was rejected because we have to wait a year and renew... quite a bite in the arse, but makes some sense.

Odd, I availed of the Panther & Select membership special offer,and I have a hardware discount in my assets page which expires this November. Since it expires after one year, I can only assume I don't need to renew to use it (I've certainly read nothing until now about having to renew to get the discount).

 

[AppleJustWorks]

No Dual processor on Middle?

Here's my guess.. I don't think we'll see 3ghz for some time.
2.2 / 2.4 / DP 2.6

That would be a total waste of an update....Actually that would a decrease in the quality of the line!!!

The CURRENT lineup has dual in the middle and high-ends...I would expect the same for the next updated lineup as well as expecting an ALL Dual lineup!

 

[fpnc]

PCI-X is backward compatible with PCI, so your cards should work in the PCI-X Power Macs (i.e. you do NOT need to limit yourself to the 1.6GHz model). However, as someone else mentioned some of the (very) old PCI cards require higher voltage than is supplied by PCI-X. I suspect that most recent PCI cards will work without problems in the Power Mac's PCI-X slots.

...The 1.6 GHz PowerMac G5 appears to be the only new Macintosh that will run standard PCI cards. The 1.8 and 2.0 have PCI-X expansion slots, which are incompatible with any normal PCI cards, and there does not appear to be any PCI-X cards on the market right now.

If Apple cuts the PowerMac G5 1.6 tower, they will be cutting out the use of PCI cards when there are no PCI-X cards yet on the market. So, basically, the 1.6 G5 tower needs to stay, or Apple needs to find a way to use older PCI cards, or they need to come out with some PCI-X ATA and SCSI, controllers.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

Odd, I availed of the Panther & Select membership special offer,and I have a hardware discount in my assets page which expires this November. Since it expires after one year, I can only assume I don't need to renew to use it (I've certainly read nothing until now about having to renew to get the discount).

hmm. that's weird... what was the panther and select offer? i didn't see anything about that

well, take advantage of it! at this point, i've spent/lost the original 500, so now it is either spend another 500 and get the discount, or just write off the original to begin with. hmm


edit: also i'm not saying the 1.6 is worthless in the least. just saying that it doesn't grab *my* attention all that much... because i have a dual 2. if it were the dual 1.8, it might. that's all.

 

[thedogcow]

Cost

(SNIP)
nevertheless, it's GOT to be more than a bump from 2GHz --> 2.2GHz. people would get up & leave WWDC.

This is beyond stupid. WWDC attendees pay a large amount of money ($1300) to attend. They would not leave.

 

[nuckinfutz]

THINK ABOUT IT ... we don't even have 2.2GHz G5, which should have come out at least in January. Here it is end of May, over 9 months since the dual 2.0 G5 has been shipping, and we STILL have dual 2.0GHz as the high end. Yet many of you believe dual 3.0 in a month ... ha! I have some ocean front property in Kansas to sell ya!

Powermac G5 2Ghz were the best sellers for a while after the initial announcement. So it's reasonable to say that Apple knows that they have to have a decent chip supply. Now hindsight showing us that the 970 recently had fab problems above 2Ghz it's easy to see why Apple would be forced to delay announcement. This however has no bearing on the 3Ghz because that's a different chip design. The 970 is supposed to top out at 2.5-2.6Ghz. The 3Ghz will most likely be based on POWER5 Lite specs.

My bets would be the best we will see is dual 2.0/2.2/2.4,

You could bet but don't bet too much. You'd lose your shirt.


My guess is that we'll see no less than a top model with 2.6Ghz using the 970FX. Apple may very well announce a Dual 3Ghz 975 based processor. However it could be a 4th Powermac in the line and priced at $3499. Which would be fine for me. Only a Pro needs a Dual 3Ghz it's should be beefy and priced accordingly.

 

[fpnc]

I feel pretty certain that there will NOT be a 3.0GHz Power Mac announced at WWDC. My guess (at best) is a top end of 2.6GHz. Also, no PCI Express for probably another nine months (perhaps in first quarter 2005). I suspect that WWDC will be a simple speed bump on the existing Power Mac motherboard using IBM's 970fx @ 90nm.

You also need to remember that Steve Jobs has already modified his "3GHz in 12 months" statement to "by the end of summer" 2004 (which could mean announcement/intro in late September -- not this June).

My guess is that part of Steve's "surprise" at WWDC will be that the speed-bumped machines will be available immediately and in quantity (after waiting for an entire year this better be the case). Also, I think there is some possibility of a G5-based iMac (which I would rate as a more significant development than just trying to reach 3GHz during the first year).

3 Ghz proccessors are coming. Jobs had plenty of chances, expecially with the IBM yeild problems anouncment to say that they would not be able to meet this goal, but he didnt and WWDC is a few weeks away. There is no way in hell the he would wait untill WWDC to announce that 3GHz isent coming. There would be hell to pay and he knows it. Plus it would not make sense as a buisness move. They need to sell more PM and if they knew they wouldnt be able to reach 3Ghz they would have announced it and those people waiting for 3Ghz to upgrade would have just bought the 2Ghz machines.

Im betting Jobs will wow us with
-3Ghz 975, 980 or whatever you want to call them @ 130nm
-Revamped system bus
-PCI Express with those nice new graphics cards from ATI
-More storage space and dual optical drives

 

[PRØBE]

To "air" is human...

What I do not understand is the passion with which people are stating - 3Ghz G5's are not coming, Steve Jobs has no power over IBM Fabrication problems, blah blah blah.

Does anyone here work for IBM or Apple in such a way that they CAN be as passionate and overflowing with negativity as they are?[Pointing to websites does not consititute insider information, it is public information of which none says "NO 3Ghz G5!"]

I love speculation on things that have yet to come, wondering how cool it will be, how fast it will feel, WHAT INCREDIBLE NEW GAMES IT CAN KICK THE PCs ASS IN, but to speculate on the side of negativity is rather dull. The facts are:

- Steve Jobs and [you wouldn't believe how many people over look this] chairman of IBM stated that they would reach 3Ghz within 1 year of announcing the G5.

-IBM had fabrication and yield problems using the 90nanometer process for the PPC 970fx.

-XServe G5's using the PPC 970fx have been shipping.

Judging from these 3 things speculations are bound to happen, but to read such passionate arguments against the possibility of the G5 reaching 3Ghz almost reads like some Mac users do not want the G5 to reach 3Ghz. I know some qualify it by saying 'I hope it does reach 3Ghz' at the end of the '3Ghz G5 don't exist and won't for some time' rant.

For arguments sake, and the sake of sanity, let's say it is up in the air and we'd just have to wait and see, but it is starting to sound [<---keyword] like these rumor site's forums are being hit by Windows zealots hoping to rain on the G5 parade.

We have some incredible technology [64bit processor with 32bit backwards compatibility, high-end system architectures and a giant in tech manufacturing like IBM] on our side that the potential to kick the crap out of Intels' and AMDs' line up. Why not air on the side of positivity and hope for a) a statement (he did not CLEARLY promise) come to fruition and b) maybe some REALLY BIG surprises in the realm of new Hardware [both consumer and pro-sumer] and some new software to exploit the power of the G5 to it's fullest.

BTW, I am not a pessimist nor an optimist... I make my judgements and base my hopes on reality.




Lol, I must be tired, but that really made me laugh. I'd love to see a hall of fame or "best of" list of all the funny mistakes people make in their posts. It would provide a little light entertainment and help release some pre-update angst.

 

[anastasis]

The thing that still upsets me is that Apple is not more flexible with their processors when it comes to purchasing.... I would love to have a Single 2 ghz G5 and I am sure that people would be happy with a dual 1.6 as well. It just does not seem like it would be that hard to have the option to go single or dual on every speed bump.

 

[mattmack]

Well I would have been very surprised if there hadn't have been any G5 updates planned for WDC...

Does Jobs usually keynote the WWDC? It just seems unusual that he would do so without a major announcement.

 

[dizastor]

It would really seem that the huge lag between updates (12 whole months) would indicate that Apple must have some amazing innovations up their sleeve and I really hope that Steve-o announces 3ghz or better at WWDC but having spent three years religiously checking Macrumors.com daily I know that even the most logical of speculation usually leads to dissapointment.

Here's hoping the cycle of high expectations and disappointing unveilings ends this year. If they hit 3ghz or better at WWDC then I would have confidence enough to venture a guess at G5 PBs announced at MWSF shipping in March. Although for portable use I think the current PB lineup kicks ass compared to the competition.

So cross your fingers, maybe they have some really cool shwag to unveil that we don't even know about yet.

 

[El Duderino]

ADC discount

i dont mean to change the subject but if someone could quickly let me know how much a 15" PB SD costs at the ADC discount it would be a great help, apple wont let me into the ADC purchase site to see how much they cost, thanx, and sorry for the highjack

P.S. if your getting the student membership ($99) your able to use the discount immediatly, it just takes up to a month for verification, which in turn might work out for the better considering an update or price-drop may occur.

 

[nuckinfutz]

I feel pretty certain that there will NOT be a 3.0GHz Power Mac announced at WWDC. My guess (at best) is a top end of 2.6GHz. Also, no PCI Express for probably another nine months (perhaps in first quarter 2005). I suspect that WWDC will be a simple speed bump on the existing Power Mac motherboard using IBM's 970fx @ 90nm.

That's pretty conservative. 9 Months though is far too long for PCIe. There's all kind of movement on PICe. SiS is ready to ship PCIe enabled chipsets. Dell is ordering PCIe cards (check xbitlabs.com and anandtech.com respectively). To think Apple is 9 months behind is a little pessimistic but who knows??

The iMac is definitely going to have a G5. If it was a G4 they would have refreshed it along with the eMac. Obviously it's a new design.

I think it's altogether possible for Apple to go ahead and pre-announce the 3Ghz model with the stipulation that it's shipping in Sept. Again I believe it's going to be $3499 so those who find this too righ for their blood will accept the more immediate Dual 2.6Ghz.

 

[SeaFox]

What's more interesting to consider is the amenities the next systems will have. A number of people have pointed out the Express graphics cards are a possibility. ATI will announce their new chips June 3rd and Dell just place a large order for some Express cards to include in their systems. I'd think that Apple would be out in front on new technology like this.

Based on what? Apple's never been out in front on graphics card technology. That's one reason why it's never been a big draw to hardcore gamers. Mac's long came with built-in video systems (for no-driver problem systems, and for proprietary connector strategies). Upgrading was only available via PCI video cards, which weren't nearly as many of as AGP card. Apple went to actual graphics cards then, but they were always a step or two back from the current bus standard. When Apple started shipping G4's with 4x AGP, the PC world was already using 8x.

I see no new graphics bus. But I do see the return of two optical drives, maybe not more internal drives, though. I'm still waiting for Apple to realize if they are going to make your keyboard and mouse USB-only they need to put in more USB ports than the competion. My Dell has six ports and the keyboard and mouse are serial so they don't use any of them.

 

[windowsblowsass]

Blind faith! Sheesh. He can't ship anything if IBM can't make 3GHz capable processors. I can see Jobs preannouncing a 3GHz for Christmas if IBM don't fix their process within the next month or two!

I'm hedging my bets on 2.1GHz, 2.4GHz and 2.7GHz systems myself (3x multiplier, 700, 800 and 900MHz busses respectively). If Apple do get >1GHz busses working then maybe we'll see 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.6 (pick any 3) systems.

you do ralize that he dual2 has 1ghz fsb bus right. therefor by your 3x multipler we would see 3ghz

 

[mattmack]

Why is Apple (the makers of the leading OS) sooooo far behind in prossing speeds?

I am having some trouble following this problem. Wasn't apple producing a 450 MHz machine when the pIII 900 was in a majority of computers (100%) faster (I know just in numerical values) and they were stuck there for a long time as pIV's sky rocketed. Apple is now at 2GHz while the most common pIV out there is a 2.6GHz. That sure is a hell of a lot closer that they have been in a long time and even with low end rumors it puts us equivalent in just numbers with the intel world not even considering 64 bit vs 32 bit processing and Dual processor awareness as well as pipeline length and all that. All in all I feel that Apple is a lot better off now than they have been since the days of 66MHz machines when Apple ruled the compter landscape.

I am sorry if this is off topic, but I feel that even if we don't see 3 GHz if you choose to use Apple you are getting a far better computer. And having a 450 that really wasn't that far behind a PIII 900 I have been happy for almost five years. Hopefully I will get a low end rev B G5 when they come out

 

[wdlove]

It is very interesting to read all the predictions. I'm just happy that I only have 30 days to hear the Stevenote.

 

[fpnc]

As for the ADC Select Hardware discounts, this is what Apple says about that:

"ADC Hardware Purchase Program *
Significant discount on Macintosh systems for development and testing. Premier members may purchase up to ten discounted systems per year. Select membership includes one discount per renewal year."

Note the key phrase for Select members -- "per renewal year" -- not per year as for the Premier members. The chart of benefits also shows a half-full bullet under the Select hardware discounts (meaning, I suspect, that not all Select members receive hardware discounts).

Here is the link: http://developer.apple.com/membership/index.html

So, as I previously said, the initial Select membership does NOT include a hardware discount. If you got one or think you got one then that was either a special, one-time deal or it's just a mistake (which may be caught if you actually try to order a system). I purchased my ADC Select membership last October and I did not receive a hardware discount asset.

I've also heard that the ADC Student memberships are eligible for immediate hardware discounts. But I don't know the details on that program (other than that it's really inexpensive) or what exactly they qualify for in hardware purchases.

hmm. that's weird... what was the panther and select offer? i didn't see anything about that

well, take advantage of it! at this point, i've spent/lost the original 500, so now it is either spend another 500 and get the discount, or just write off the original to begin with. hmm


edit: also i'm not saying the 1.6 is worthless in the least. just saying that it doesn't grab *my* attention all that much... because i have a dual 2. if it were the dual 1.8, it might. that's all.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Based on what? Apple's never been out in front on graphics card technology.

No remember Apple was shipping the Rage 128 before it was available on the PC. They do have the ability to hit markets first.

When Apple started shipping G4's with 4x AGP, the PC world was already using 8x

Yeah and moving to 8x really gave a HUGE speed increase right? NOT

I'd give Apple probably a 60% chance of going PCI express. I don't see why someone of you are so pessimistic. The typical Taiwanese Mobo still doesn't have PCI-X so Apple is ahead on this one. Looks like there will be PCIe products in the channel for late 2004 early 2005. Apple is aware of this.

 

[Windowlicker]

Hmmm, before you spring for that display, try to compare the Apple display side-by-side with the Samsung 24".

• the 243T is slightly larger (1", pitch 0.270mm vs. 0.258mm)
• the 243T is brighter (300 cd/m2 vs. 250 cd/m2)
• the 243T has more contrast (500:1 vs. 350:1)
• the 243T has an adjustable height/tilt stand with portrait/landscape rotation
• the 243T has a narrow bezel
• the 243T has a standard VESA mount for 3rd party stands and arms (e.g. http://www.ergotron.com/3_products/flat_panel/default.asp)
• the 243T is not made of clear plastic

It really is time for Apple to update their LCD displays.... If you look at them side-by-side, there's definitely a difference. (In addition to the fashion problem that brushed aluminum and lucite don't match.)

just one question: does the samsung come with ADC? I'm not buying a DVI display as long as I can choose from ADC.. less desktop clutter because the display doesn't need its own power cord. though i agree with you that sometimes (very seldom) the clear plastic (which i have on my 17"er) is a bit annoying.

 

[denm316]

hopefull the rev b's wont have all the fan problems, you know where the power mac gets ready to take-off

 

[pdxdeano]

20th Year make over?

Perhaps there are even grander things in the works for WWDC. Earlier this year Steve said that this would be an "exciting" year for the Mac. Maybe we'll see a complete bottom to top revamping of the Mac. Maybe the iMac will replace the eMac. An entierly new system will replace the iMac at the mid-level point and 3GHz G5's will come out on top.

 

[denm316]

Does Jobs usually keynote the WWDC? It just seems unusual that he would do so without a major announcement.

Jobs did the Keynote last year and announced the Rev A G5's

 

[Windowlicker]

I think we will get a major bump to G5s because we've effectively missed a revision. That's why Apple site recently had all those press quotes about the G5 being really good - to cover up the fact that it was overdue for a revision.

They'll be updated majorly at WWDC to be sure. And Apple will garner press attention for having the world's fastest personal computers again. Could be 3GHz, otherwise, I'd expect 2.6-2.8GHz at least.

Secondly, this WWDC will be a good one because, in addition to major new G5s and Tiger preview, we will also see G5 iMacs - probably at 1.6 and 1.8 or even 2.0 GHz as previously stated. It's obvious the iMacs will go G5 because they have missed the recent revision and currently sit very out-of-date and overpriced in Apple's lineup. If they weren't getting ready to unleash G5 iMacs, we would have seen a 1.5GHz 17/20" iMac by now and a 1.25/1.33 GHz 15" model (or maybe even can the 15"er). There's no other reason to explain why the iMacs have not been updated yet.

you might very well be right, johnny boy! i haven't really tought very much about iMacs.. somehow they're not very close to my heart. my next computer is gonna be a laptop or a g5, that's for sure. and I think I rather want a pm g5 with a big display, but then again, it's loads of $$ (or actually €€). blah blah blah. (heh just woke up and realized i've been sleeping a couple of hours when i should've been studying.. feeling quite sleepy)

anyway this will be a bit off topic, but has anyone thought that when we get these updated G5's, what will they look like? if we get a 3ghz g5, i don't think it's gonna look the same as rev A... just look at the PM G4s or the colour changes on the g3 imacs.

my guess is they'll add another optical drive (especially if they don't hit 3ghz) and do some other stuff that i can't imagine. the g4 rev's have always looked different.. don't think they want a 3ghz g5 be an exception by looking the same as a 2ghz model.