'Constant Negativity' From Pro Users Led Apple to Develop Modular Mac Pro, Which May Not Ship Until 2019

[sracer]

Companies don't keep a product around because they feel obliged. They do so, because they feel it can make a profit. When that that product no longer generates sufficient revenue, they stop making it. Apple did this with the 17" MBP.

That's not the only reason.

First, corporate contracts. Contracts Apple has to supply particular units to particular companies and contracts Apple has with manufacturers to assemble those units.

Those contracts are generally confidential and can be the "missing puzzle piece" when one wonders why a product that appears to be languishing, still exists.

Second, pricing strategy. Many are familiar with the concept of "loss leader", but the opposite concept also exists... having a higher priced model that causes people to purchase a lower priced model... there are a variety of reasons for wanting to do that.

I suspect that Apple kept the Mac Pro unchanged for so long so that they could move those sales to the Macbook Pro. (Not that the MBP is functionally equivalent to the Mac Pro) Then, once having caused that segment of their customers to "dumb down" their workflows to fit within the capabilities of the MBP, they would discontinue the Mac Pro with little pushback.

They realized by not providing a computer that meets the needs to certain demographics they were leaving money on the table and they'd be better suited to trying to retain those dedicated customers. Whether that happens, is another question but the pow-wow they held was a step in the right direction.

I think that Apple's turnaround in their decision has more to do with the down-product sales. The new MBP is most likely not selling as well as they expected.

 

[keunchilla]

Something I wrote a few months back:

"Apple. **** it. After more than 10 years being a loyal fanboy, after more than 19k of hard earned money spent on your once fantastic products, I am so truly disgusted by your attitude towards professional users that your greedy apple has turned so sour that I am even willing to bite into Windows now. May the shards cut my mouth and intestines, I don't care, anything with a little more 'edge' is more welcome than your one legged horses with that outrageously undeserved "Pro" moniker. Hopefully, you can turn the ship around and come out more humble and mature. Windows did so too."

 

[kazmac]

Interesting after saying how great the sales were for the new MBP last Fall, that Apple will go back to the drawing board for some retina MBPs as well (they want those sales.)

Best Buy has the non TB 13" models on sale almost every week now (and for the local store you have to wait for ship to insofar as the 2015 15" MBP.)

 

[apolloa]

Yeah, because you need more than three years of meetings and analysis to decide whether you need a Mac Pro or not.

So now you have gone to the opposite extreme. Apple will NOT have considered the Mac Pro dead until very very recently as you claim, and they would not have spent all three years debating it's future!

 

[Abazigal]

So now you have gone to the opposite extreme. Apple will NOT have considered the Mac Pro dead until very very recently as you claim, and they would not have spent all three years debating it's future!

My response was meant to be sarcastic, if you had read the reply that I quoted in my earlier answer.

 

[DanBig]

Had some drinks with a friend who works for Apple. He is telling me they are seeing quite a few damaged systems where people have yanked on the UBC-C power cord pulling their system to the floor. Even IFIXIT has quite a few reports of people looking to get their systems repaired due to the lack of MagSafe on the power cord connection.

Apple Corp are you listening??? Put the MagSafe back! Your systems are becoming expensive paperweights!

 

[Count Blah]

As I said who cares about overclocking? It's a waste of time test, no Pro user will overclock a computer if it increases the risk of failure, and especially Macs. So it was a useless test, and it proves absolutely nothing, other then computer hardware progresses.

Again, this isn't INTEL overclocking, you don't have to delid or any such crap. These things are rock solid going from 3000Mhz to 3800Mhz, with < 5 simple selections in the BIOS.

How is a $1500 doubling the performance of $5000 Apple offering useless? It's a great example of how far Apple has gone off the rails, with respects to Pro Pro users, not the latte sipping "Pro" users.
[doublepost=1491742918][/doublepost]

Here's the thing - I can see a fair amount of utility for the touchbar for the mass consumer market, who may not have committed every shortcut to memory like the "pros" have. For instance, tapping a single shortcut to create a new safari tab rather than pressing "cmd + T”. I am no pro and I use the escape key a great deal myself. The touchbar will likely require some time to get used to, but nothing I can't get behind.

The problem then comes when what might be good for millions of more casual macOS users is at odds with the needs of a far smaller (albeit way more vocal) group of "Pro" users. Who then do we listen to? Pro users are notoriously conservative and inflexible when it comes to accepting and adapting to change because they have the most invested in a particular workflow.

Please let this Abazigal come out an play more often.

Begin Rant ...
I totally agree, in that the touchbar is really a consumer item. You're question about who we listen to, have been blatantly obvious at Apple for years now - The iPhone users. That is why the Mac software group has been moved over to iOS, it's why iOS features only get put into MacOS, and not the other way around. It's also why Apple has FINALLY given at least lip service to the utter neglect they have given Apple Pro users.

Apple for far too long, have taken the "let them eat cake" attitude toward all of it's customers, but especially the Pros. ONLY when the flood of folks buying the tons of more versatile 2015 MBPs, did Apple Leadership give two ish's about looking into what Mac users want.

End Rant(in this post at least)...

Apple, thinking they had a choke hold on 100% loyal, 'will always buy the latest of greatest', Mac users, put their sad attempt at a touch interface on the msot expensive "Pro" hard ware they refresh the most. The thinking was, "We will TELL the Mac community what to do, and they will do it. Aaaaaaaand, they will do that software stuff to made it usable, as soon as we up the price of the lower level portables to put in this TOTALLY AWESOME Ivy invention."

The touchbar is a $300 item in an already expensive laptop. It's not making it to Macbook, without some major hit to the consumer. The Macbook is already too expensive for what it is suppose to be - entry level Mac portable. Now they are going to up the price by $200+(assuming costs come down). It was a bad choice, and it have blown up in their face, with the constant negative press, which is obviously coupled with the already abandoned Professional Mac users.

 

[I7guy]

Something I wrote a few months back:

"Apple. **** it. After more than 10 years being a loyal fanboy, after more than 19k of hard earned money spent on your once fantastic products, I am so truly disgusted by your attitude towards professional users that your greedy apple has turned so sour that I am even willing to bite into Windows now. May the shards cut my mouth and intestines, I don't care, anything with a little more 'edge' is more welcome than your one legged horses with that outrageously undeserved "Pro" moniker. Hopefully, you can turn the ship around and come out more humble and mature. Windows did so too."

So you spent $2,000/year on Apple products?

 

[Count Blah]

So you spent $2,000/year on Apple products?

That's about 1 maxed out Mac Pro

 

[discuit]

Two to three years for product-development for something as complex as a Mac Pro is not at all out-of-line.

IT'S A DESKTOP COMPUTER. It's not complex at all, unless you want to box yourself into a tiny trashcan cylinder. I can build a desktop myself using 1-2 days of planning/spec matching and a few hours of assembly. It should take Apple a few months tops to design a good case and secure the supply chain for a standardized internals.

 

[Queen6]

It is courageous to call feedback from users "negativity"

Simply illustrates just how completely out of touch Apple's Exec's are with their core Mac customers

Q-6

 

[groove-agent]

As it sits now, I think I will skip out on another year of a new MacOS computer. Instead I purchased a brand new Dell Laptop. I will wait and see what 2018 brings from Apple. Unless something compelling comes out I suspect that my current 17" 2011 MacBook Pro will be my last. That is amazing for a dedicated Apple Developer from 1986 to be saying. It just tells the sad tale of lack of attention to the professionals that develop for Apple products by Apple.

Same here. I pretty much knew my 2012 antiglare cMBP would be my last laptop, or even Apple computer as Apple was going to 100% glossy screens (I can work 2 hours max on a glossy screen before headaches/ eye fatigue sets in). I do pro audio with large sound libraries and need a lot of disk space which wasn't really possible to match internally with dual drives on my cMBP, or even a single drive for the money. The new 2016 MBP was cool, but impossible to justify for the price given soldered in overpriced SSD and memory, glossy screen, lack of magsafe/SD card/ ports. Plus they took away the iconic illuminated Apple logo from the back of the lid! I could get over a few of these things, but not all - not for the amount of money they wanted. Screw that, it felt like a downgrade from what I had.

I build a hackintosh instead, and found myself using Windows 10 more and more (boots in 3 seconds!) but I miss the centralization of my mobile laptop so now I'm looking at the new Dell XPS 15s which look gorgeous with the small bevels and GTX10xx 4GB VRAM graphic chips (guess what Apple, gaming is pretty mainstream nowadays). If I ditch Apple it would open up more options for less money. My iPhone gets slower and slower with each update and I've never been happy with the look of my bulky square Apple watch which looks like an 80s Casio calculator watch.

If only Microsoft would reopen and perfect their ecosystem with the Microsoft Phone and band, I might go the Microsoft Surface route. One device for all your computing needs is awesome and super easy to manage!

... or maybe Apple needs to take their cash reserve, build a time machine, and bring back Steve Jobs who was the heart and soul of this company.

 

[skellener]

'Constant Negativity' From Pro Users Led Apple to Develop Modular Mac Pro, Which May Not Ship Until 2019​

For Pete's sake Apple....DON'T OVER THINK IT!!! It's a box. Make it very, very fast. Sell it.​

​

 

[Abazigal]

IT'S A DESKTOP COMPUTER. It's not complex at all, unless you want to box yourself into a tiny trashcan cylinder. I can build a desktop myself using 1-2 days of planning/spec matching and a few hours of assembly. It should take Apple a few months tops to design a good case and secure the supply chain for a standardized internals.

That's assuming Apple will simply recycle the cheese grater Mac form factor instead of trying to reimagine its design as they are wont to do.

 

[jlaylor]

Great they are listening!

But am I the only one who finds it hard to believe that a company that big, with that much money and all their resources is going to take that long?

I'm not expecting anything next month, but end of year or early 2017 would be acceptable.

But late 2018 or even after that....seems silly.

Then again, these are rumours so who knows right

Apple has often lost their way, but comes back spectacularly. I saw from the beginning that many users were snapping up 2010 mac pros when the 2013 came out because of the lack of modularity and expansion. Apple does respond to users, but veeeerrrrryyyyy slllloooowwwwlllly. I think what remains of steve jobs legacy is the mantra to "Get it right", which leads to them not always being first, but often the best. By the way, I have a 2013 and a 2008, both in daily use. The 2013 is a powerhouse, and the 2008 takes care of legacy needs. I'm looking forwards to being able to finally play with VR on a real mac pro, even if it takes a while.

 

[PaulRustad007]

Two years to re-imagine the G5 tower design? Really?

 

[bobdobalina]

2019? Are they developing a space telescope?

 

[Tony.Skid]

Building iPhones.

Seriously, I think the iPhone has been such a success that TC and crew pulled staff off their computer projects and let them languish. Instead of hiring more staff to cover both areas, TC, as a logistics/efficiency-minded CEO, saw this move as more cost effective. What he and other staff didn't get was that they've neglected the hard core, dedicated, Apple computer fan base, the ones who kept the company alive in the 90's before SJ returned.

It's funny, because as a car guy, I see many parallels between Apple and BMW. The parallel I see is that BMW has, like Apple, gotten sidetracked from their historical strength and lost their way a bit. In Apple's case, they got distracted by the iPhone and have focused the majority of their resources on it. For BMW, they've gone niche-chasing and crossover happy to the neglect of their sport sedans (it's gotten bad enough that their cars have been consistently losing comparisons in the car mags, which is a no-no for BMW). My point: never leave your roots. You can branch out into other pursuits, but never leave the product or service that established your success to begin with.

I agree with you at 100%... on Apple and BMW....

 

[apolloa]

Again, this isn't INTEL overclocking, you don't have to delid or any such crap. These things are rock solid going from 3000Mhz to 3800Mhz, with < 5 simple selections in the BIOS.

How is a $1500 doubling the performance of $5000 Apple offering useless? It's a great example of how far Apple has gone off the rails, with respects to Pro Pro users, not the latte sipping "Pro" users.
[doublepost=1491742918][/doublepost]Please let this Abazigal come out an play more often.

Begin Rant ...
I totally agree, in that the touchbar is really a consumer item. You're question about who we listen to, have been blatantly obvious at Apple for years now - The iPhone users. That is why the Mac software group has been moved over to iOS, it's why iOS features only get put into MacOS, and not the other way around. It's also why Apple has FINALLY given at least lip service to the utter neglect they have given Apple Pro users.

Apple for far too long, have taken the "let them eat cake" attitude toward all of it's customers, but especially the Pros. ONLY when the flood of folks buying the tons of more versatile 2015 MBPs, did Apple Leadership give two ish's about looking into what Mac users want.

End Rant(in this post at least)...

Apple, thinking they had a choke hold on 100% loyal, 'will always buy the latest of greatest', Mac users, put their sad attempt at a touch interface on the msot expensive "Pro" hard ware they refresh the most. The thinking was, "We will TELL the Mac community what to do, and they will do it. Aaaaaaaand, they will do that software stuff to made it usable, as soon as we up the price of the lower level portables to put in this TOTALLY AWESOME Ivy invention."

The touchbar is a $300 item in an already expensive laptop. It's not making it to Macbook, without some major hit to the consumer. The Macbook is already too expensive for what it is suppose to be - entry level Mac portable. Now they are going to up the price by $200+(assuming costs come down). It was a bad choice, and it have blown up in their face, with the constant negative press, which is obviously coupled with the already abandoned Professional Mac users.

I said it was a useless test, NOT that overclocking is useless! And it's a pointless test as anyone with a Mac Pro who relies on it to keep a roof over their heads and food in their families mouths is NOT going to overclock their Mac Pro.
If computer tech 4 years newer, utterly unsurprisingly, beats computer tech 4 years older, then what exactly is the point in overclocking said computer and run tests with 'pro' applications?

 

[Queen6]

Two years to re-imagine the G5 tower design? Really?

My concerns are that Apple will release a "modular" Mac Pro, however it will heavily locked down with proprietary tech, hence the yet again the elongated wait. I am sorry I just don't see Apple offering an open and flexible Mac Pro, Apple has become far too "penny pinching" under Tim Cook.

If Apple had any sense and less greed they would release a far more open Mac Pro, enjoy the benefits of positive customer & tech press response and importantly the fall through of the "Halo" effect, as it's not like the average consumer is going looking at such expensive hardware.

If you want an open and flexible system Windows or Hacintosh seems to be the only path, as I seriously doubt Apple has the vision to realise such a product, no doubt the power cable will be additional cost If I was in the market for a new Mac Pro, I would pickup the "Cheese Grater" case, have it modified to allow installation of the latest hardware, duel Boot OS X & W10, being confident of it being far faster than what Apple is capable of producing.

Q-6

 

[Greymacuser]

Ladies and Gentlemen, There is no pipeline. Tim has been saying the same thing for the last 4 years. The last 2 years, he said Apple has some "exciting" things planned but nothing really occurred. The only thing "new" was the Apple Watch. Wow, the computer updates were minimal as well as the iPhones. Tim also ended the life of the iPod by saying the parts were not available. Quite frankly, Tim is causing the Mac demise. He only cares about the iPad, iPhone and Apple Watch... the iOS devices. He is very dangerous to the Mac and Apple should just quit making Macs and sell the Mac operating system for everyone to use. Most Mac users love the OS and would just buy a PC and install the macOS. Tim will have his wish... the death of the Mac.

Well said.

 

[gyang333]

2019. Christ.

This essentially proves Ive and Co. haven't even been designing successors to the Mac Pro in the background, over the past four years.

Of course not. He's been busy with Product Red and collabs with Marc Newson.

 

[George Dawes]

What happened to all the great engineering talent at Apple ?

Where did they go ??

 

[Count Blah]

I said it was a useless test, NOT that overclocking is useless! And it's a pointless test as anyone with a Mac Pro who relies on it to keep a roof over their heads and food in their families mouths is NOT going to overclock their Mac Pro.
If computer tech 4 years newer, utterly unsurprisingly, beats computer tech 4 years older, then what exactly is the point in overclocking said computer and run tests with 'pro' applications?

AGAIN, the point is HOW far Apple has fallen.

For anyone needing Pro tools to keep a roof over their heads, I sure as hell hope they have taken a hard look at how Apple has abandoned them, and have switched already.

Besides, who mentioned anything about overclocking their Mac?!?!

 

[definitive]

Guess for now people and businesses should stick to paying full price for Apple's 2013 Mac Pro models...