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dongmin

macrumors 68000
Jan 3, 2002
1,709
5
Beck446 said:
actually, the machines have to come out at some point before the holidays, so stop being so pessimistic people.
Who says they HAVE to come out before the holidays? Steve Jobs? Apple's gone longer between updates so there's no ruling out that Apple will just make due with the lineup they have now.

Moving to C2D right now will net us a .167 ghz increase. Apple may be caculating that the bump is not significant enough. They may be holding out for a more radical revamp. Maybe an early dose of Santa Rosa.
 

longofest

Editor emeritus
Jul 10, 2003
2,921
1,674
Falls Church, VA
Folks, there is a reason why this was posted on page 2. We almost didn't even bother posting it, but being that Engadget was the one saying it, we decided to go ahead and run some sort of story about it.
 

jmelrose

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2004
259
51
Orlando, FL
One, what does this release HAVE to be on a Tuesday?

(Part devil's advocate, part real inquiry...)

Two, anyone heard about the potential for larger hard drives in this next iteration?

and, C: What is "in the pipeline" for mobile CPUs for the next 6 months? I don't follow the Intel codenames, so what features/improvements are being added to the mobile/notebook-line chips in the next few iterations?

THanks!
JMelrose
 

daveL

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2003
2,425
0
Montana
Wednesday

I say tomorrow. They'll tie it into the earnings announcement. They can say everything has been transitioned to C2D.
 

BlueRevolution

macrumors 603
Jul 26, 2004
6,054
2
Montreal, QC
Does Apple have any valid excuse for not having made the upgrade? I think the argument about having to stay up to date while using Intel chips is becoming truer by the minute.

As for MacBooks, no way are they going to release Core 2 Duo MBs while the MBP sits at Core Duo for another month. Come on, the high end model gets the bells and whistles first, it's simple economics.
 

monke

macrumors 65816
May 30, 2005
1,437
3
Kingsly said:
Gee, ya think? :rolleyes:

'Exactly, 14 days left in October, lets say these C2D's are coming out in November.

What? They came out in October, what are you complaining about?'

Even if Engadget is wrong, no one will notice, except for a few.
 

kilometer31

macrumors newbie
Jan 30, 2002
6
0
Curious about max RAM

I don't expect much from this update other than the Merom chip. The real leap will be, as someone noted, with the Santa Rosa chipset from Intel in the Spring.

But I am curious: Will the Core2Duo MacBook Pros be likely to support more than 2 gigs of RAM? I note that Dell's Core2Duo offerings max at 4 gigs.

The dual-core laptops are great now and will only get better. But while 2 gigs is fine for the consumery MacBook, I think it is an unfortunate limitation for the MacBook Pro.
 

thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
9,105
2,943
Pennsylvania
clintob said:
Anyone remember way back when we were still in elementary school? There was always that kid at summer camp whose "cousin once jumped over the flagpole in Super Mario Bros." That's still my favorite.

Brilliant.
I did that once...

Ok, is anyone else getting tired of these rumors? They're almost as bad as the iPhone and Powerbook G5!
 

stefan15

macrumors regular
Oct 2, 2005
199
0
Canada
Macrumors said:
Engadget provides some further confirmation, although from a seemingly unconfirmed source, that Core 2 Duo (Merom) MacBook and MacBook Pros are due in November.

No. Not happening.

Also: to address one of the above questions: Macbook will still only support 2GB ram, since an update to C2D is just the processor not the chipset. You would need a higher-end Intel Chipset to support 2+gb. (ie: the one from MBP or the chipset that's part of the santa rosa package.. etc)
 

ThunderLounge

macrumors 6502
Sep 20, 2006
332
0
Zic said:
According to my source, "Signs point to yes." for a C2D MBP release this month.

"Use of this oracle is strictly forbidden to fans of the New York Yankees."


A programmer with a sense of humor? Say it isn't so! :D
 

dkoralek

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2006
268
0
stefan15 said:
No. Not happening.

Also: to address one of the above questions: Macbook will still only support 2GB ram, since an update to C2D is just the processor not the chipset. You would need a higher-end Intel Chipset to support 2+gb. (ie: the one from MBP or the chipset that's part of the santa rosa package.. etc)

Not true regarding the RAM. Just have to look at the switch from yonah to merom for the iMac to see what will happen. They will take up to 4 gig like the Dell, but Apple will only sell you 3gig. For Dell you have to read the small print. They'll sell you 4, but you will only get about 3.2 usable because the 64 bit chipset (from the napa platform) uses part of the 4 to allocate to system resources. And it will be a chipset change, just not a dramatic one, from the 32-bit napa chipset to the 64-bit version. This is also not the same as Crestline, the chip set that forms part of Santa Rosa. Could it be that Crestline is nearly ready for primetime? Just because Santa Rosa isn't, doesn't mean that components of it aren't (and I doubt that we'll see Apple adopt all of Santa Rosa, anyway, since they haven't seemed to support any other centrino label.

cheers.
 

nevir

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2006
111
0
baxterbrittle said:
They can't update the consumer model before the PRO model. Expect them very soon with a very good possibility of new casings/features for MBP.

Except they did with the Mac Pro, ya?
 

dkoralek

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2006
268
0
nevir said:
Except they did with the Mac Pro, ya?

They didn't have much of a choice. They would never have replaced the G5 with yonah for a workstation class computer. They were waiting for the core version of Xeon to come out (Woodcrest).

cheers.
 

AppliedVisual

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2006
813
315
SirRichard said:
Perhaps they're just waiting for the new Core2Quads in mid-November to release the brand new MacBook Extreme with "quad core performance" :D

But quad-core mobile CPUs aren't on Intel's road map with the exception of a fuzzy notion sometime in '08.

The next mobile CPU iteration will still be the Merom C2D CPU, but with a faster FSB of 800Mhz vs. the current 667MHz and a few other minor changes/additions. Look for these sometime next spring or early summer.
 

stefan15

macrumors regular
Oct 2, 2005
199
0
Canada
dkoralek said:
Just because Santa Rosa isn't, doesn't mean that components of it aren't (and I doubt that we'll see Apple adopt all of Santa Rosa, anyway, since they haven't seemed to support any other centrino label.
cheers.

Good point!

I meant to say 3gb before as well--I don't think the current chipset can handle more than 3gb of ram without allocation to other resources, regardless of the processor in it or OS being run.. Is that correct?
 

unstatusthequo

macrumors newbie
Aug 31, 2006
23
0
Chicago
There should be an entire FORUM dedicated to this C2D (Merom) MBP...

Possible sub-forums I would suggest might be:

-Rumors from Reputable Sources
-Rumors from Some Sources that Have Gotten Lucky in the Past
-Rumors from Sources that have Always Been Wrong
-Rumors started by Forum Members

Point being, there are now at least 3 separate threads dedicated to the C2D MBP, and the same guessing/discussing/rumor mongering is going on in all three of them.

I would love the announcement to come ASAP. I really would. I'm a switcher and would enjoy the C2D MBP to be my first Mac experience. But, no matter what the source, I seriously doubt every report at this point. The "next Tuesday" thing is funny and all, but the fact is that Apple keeps very tight reigns on information, and at this point, how can any of us honestly believe any source?

So, in the meantime, I guess I'll put all three threads in bookmarks. :p
 

jholzner

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2002
1,385
21
Champaign, IL
clintob said:
Hah! Classic...

There was always that kid at summer camp whose "cousin once jumped over the flagpole in Super Mario Bros." That's still my favorite.

Brilliant.

Ha...that is classic. I used to have friends who had friends who did the same thing! Oh, how I tried to jump over that flag pole. To be honest, this is a more interesting discussion than the constant MBP rumors.
 

AppliedVisual

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2006
813
315
dkoralek said:
Not true regarding the RAM. Just have to look at the switch from yonah to merom for the iMac to see what will happen. They will take up to 4 gig like the Dell, but Apple will only sell you 3gig. For Dell you have to read the small print. They'll sell you 4, but you will only get about 3.2 usable because the 64 bit chipset (from the napa platform) uses part of the 4 to allocate to system resources.

Er... Not quite. Currently, the MBP, MB and even the iMac lines all use variations of the i945 "Napa" chipset, which is 32 bit. In a 32bit memory addressing environment, there is a maximum address range of 4GB. This address range not only has to account for all usable RAM, but also any other memory and devices that access memory within the system. Including the video memory and hardware I/O addresses. The reason why Apple only sells 3GB in the iMac C2D and not 4GB is because if you place a full 4GB in there, you would only be able to actually use about 3.2GB of it. This is the same for any notebook systems from Dell and anyone else or any other Merom C2D based system right now for that matter. The reason Dell and some PC makers sell 4GB in their systems is so that they don't lose any performance by only installing 3GB. The current chipsets support dual-channel memory access, but for this to work, the modules must be matched in size and specs. Apple is only offering a mis-matched 1GB+2GB max config in the iMac C2D. By doing this, they're sacrificing the dual-channel performance advantage (which isn't that great of an advantage), but they're also not selling RAM you can't use. I think I have to agree with Apple and say that it's more fair to the consumer to only offer 3GB than it is to offer 4GB and explain to them that they can only use about 3.2GB of it.

There is a 64bit version of the Napa chipset for workstations, (Napa-64) and it supports up to 16GB RAM. But no mobile version unless Intel/Apple have come up with something special. The next major revision of the mobile chipset (Crestline) will have support for at least 8GB, maybe 16GB. Reports are coming out saying it's ahead of schedule, but still guestimates are indicating that means February. Crestline is the chipset for the Santa Rosa platform.

I'm really hoping for a NAPA64 chipset in the updated MBP. I suppose it's possible as it's been mentioned from time to time in various PC forums and here. But realistically, we won't see more than 3GB usable in the MBP until the Crestline CPU arrives... I suppose it could be real early and show up in the next few weeks, but I seriously doubt it. I'm also starting to wonder if Crestline is early though and Apple is just holding out planning for a MWSF announcment and late January release.... I guess we'll know eventually, eh?
 

dkoralek

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2006
268
0
AppliedVisual said:
Er... Not quite. Currently, the MBP, MB and even the iMac lines all use variations of the i945 "Napa" chipset, which is 32 bit. In a 32bit memory addressing environment, there is a maximum address range of 4GB. This address range not only has to account for all usable RAM, but also any other memory and devices that access memory within the system. Including the video memory and hardware I/O addresses. The reason why Apple only sells 3GB in the iMac C2D and not 4GB is because if you place a full 4GB in there, you would only be able to actually use about 3.2GB of it. This is the same for any notebook systems from Dell and anyone else or any other Merom C2D based system right now for that matter. The reason Dell and some PC makers sell 4GB in their systems is so that they don't lose any performance by only installing 3GB. The current chipsets support dual-channel memory access, but for this to work, the modules must be matched in size and specs. Apple is only offering a mis-matched 1GB+2GB max config in the iMac C2D. By doing this, they're sacrificing the dual-channel performance advantage (which isn't that great of an advantage), but they're also not selling RAM you can't use. I think I have to agree with Apple and say that it's more fair to the consumer to only offer 3GB than it is to offer 4GB and explain to them that they can only use about 3.2GB of it.

There is a 64bit version of the Napa chipset for workstations, (Napa-64) and it supports up to 16GB RAM. But no mobile version unless Intel/Apple have come up with something special. The next major revision of the mobile chipset (Crestline) will have support for at least 8GB, maybe 16GB. Reports are coming out saying it's ahead of schedule, but still guestimates are indicating that means February. Crestline is the chipset for the Santa Rosa platform.

I'm really hoping for a NAPA64 chipset in the updated MBP. I suppose it's possible as it's been mentioned from time to time in various PC forums and here. But realistically, we won't see more than 3GB usable in the MBP until the Crestline CPU arrives... I suppose it could be real early and show up in the next few weeks, but I seriously doubt it. I'm also starting to wonder if Crestline is early though and Apple is just holding out planning for a MWSF announcment and late January release.... I guess we'll know eventually, eh?


I don't believe that is true. Napa is like santa rosa, a centrino platform. Napa64 is as I read it, a 64-bit version of Napa to support Merom. Intel has released a version of the 945 (the chipset in Napa) with intel/64 support. This, I believe is part of what constitutes Napa64. The chipset that helps make up Napa64 is not the workstation 64-bit chipset (like what the MacPro supports). It appears that Apple did not use this chipset in the Merom iMac, but maybe they were waiting for it to be primetime to include in the MBP? It will not support more than 4 gig in RAM. You have to wait for Crestline for that.

cheers.
 

baxterbrittle

macrumors regular
Nov 8, 2005
236
1
I said it earlier and now I have even more reason to think we'll have C2D MBP's within a week, maybe 8 days. I can't really say more but I can tell you I was one of the very few to predict updated shuffles last month and nobody listened, everyone was like; "oh ah there are gonna be new nano's". I predicted new nano's, 5g's and Shuffles.
 
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