Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread

[iluvmacs99]

Just watched NIH Director Dr. Francis Collins talking about booster shots. He thinks that it's more important to get everyone a first shot. He was asked about Israel and UK and he said that it's puzzling. No discussion at all about the gap issue.

It's important to note that the gap is basically to stretch the efficacy rate in between the first dose and the second dose so that you have a longer immunity towards COVID. You can still do the 3 week gap and then finish it up later with a 3rd booster dose which in essence brings back in line with the UK's longer gap experiment. So the gap itself isn't changing the efficacy rate, but simply rather to extend or stretch it further and make aware that you need a higher efficacy rate to deal with Delta as you wouldn't need to have with the older variants.

The reason the UK and Canada adopted the longer gap in between dosage was due to the shortage of vaccines in the early days of vaccination. Remember the time where there was vaccine hoarding among nations; where we have countries robbing our countries' vaccine allotment? That was why the gap was extended beyond the vaccine maker's recommendation, which was 3 weeks. As it turned out, the longer gap experiment actually worked in favour of combating the Delta variant and so countries like the UK and Canada benefit from this experiment.

The downside of the longer gap, as Canada had already found out, is the wait. And in Canada's case, we start out with the oldest population getting the first dose and leaving the youngest (18-29) getting the 1st dose much later. It was the younger population that complained the most and rightly so that they are being treated as the sacrificial lamb, because they are mostly the frontline workers who work at McD, Burger King etc and get the most front exposure to Delta. So Canada went down to 7 weeks and I was told that the Canadian government had ordered the booster dose for later vaccination.

So what really counts is that 1st jab. Vaccine efficacy is at most effective within the 6 months, so adding a gap of 12 weeks extended that.

 

[poorcody]

I think the CDC point is most valid. That breakthrough infections severe enough to threaten death or long-term health damage (i.e., requiring hospitalization) is practically non-existent in fully vaccinated people.

This is what's important, especially for those who still hold onto conspiracy-based doubts and refuse the vaccine. Important not to miss the forest for the trees.

True, for now... but I think watching the breakout infections increase is important, because if the trend continues, it looks like it is going to lead to increased severe illnesses and hospitalizations. It's the "early warning" so to speak. The situation is in flux and probably will be for a long time.

There is some criticism (e.g. Gottlieb) that the CDC is too focused on looking backwards and not forward, like the UK and Israel do. The data we see today might mean a lot more severe illness in a few weeks.

 

[iluvmacs99]

To think of it simply, a vaccine is like what our Macs get from Apple -- security updates. In order for our Macs to stay current on security, it needs to constantly receive security updates against new threats. A vaccine, to put it simply and I mean simply, acts like a biological version of security updates.

A vaccine does not provide lasting immunity. That's why we have yearly Flu shots. The job that provides our long lasting immunity are the lymphocytes; the memory cells that has the memory of this virus and can act and produce neutralizing antibodies to neutralize the virus. A vaccine only helps point our immune system to produce those neutralizing antibodies and that has a shelf life as Israel had found out to be short if you follow a 3 week gap. The Delta variant is the reason for that. When you no longer have those neutralizing antibodies, then you are NO DIFFERENT than those of the unvaccinated and this seemed to be not in US CDC radar. They are looking backwards which is really odd for a nation who prides itself to be technologically advanced and yet seemed to be a bit behind other countries in COVID response.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I'd assume that Canada and the UK followed a similar procedure in vaccinating their oldest first.

If the time between doses theory is correct, then the US should be seeing similar results to Israel in several months though there will be differences in that they have a higher proportion of their population with antibodies than we do.

I did have a look at a paper yesterday discussing the length of time between doses and it discussed the pros and cons of more time. The first dose does not provide great protection against Delta. The second dose does. If you wait a short time between doses, you get that high effectiveness in a short period of time but get waning protection down the road.

If you wait longer, then you get longer protection but your population is vulnerable in the time between doses and the two weeks to get to full vaccination.

It would appear that the ideal case would be to get two doses, spaced 3-4 weeks apart, and then another dose sometime after that.

Yes, all countries I’m aware of that have had widespread vaccinations have prioritized old folks into the first phase of vaccinations, followed by younger but high risk individuals. It only makes sense as they are most at risk. But again, older people have inherently weaker immune systems (a natural consequence of aging), not to mention are more likely to have conditions that weaken their immune system. If you give a vaccine to an old person (or person with weakened immune system), the immune response will not be as significant as a healthy, young person. So they’re less likely to have as many antibodies (and probably less likely to sustain adequate levels). It’s the same reason old people are less likely to have side effects from the vaccine.

I think it’s important that these breakthrough cases be analyzed taking into consideration age and pre-existing risk factors related to immune function. According to the CDC of 6500 breakthrough cases they observed, the median age was 58 and the IQR was 40-74 (median 50% of cases)… meaning 75% of the cases were over 40. Another study I saw say 75% are over 65. Maybe their age and underlying health status are a factor. Or maybe it’s because the majority of people not-vaccinated are young.

63% of the breakthrough cases were in women, interesting since females typically are better at fighting infection. Is that because they’re more likely to vaccinate (~5-10% more women than men, and more prevalent in older adults)? Or could it also be because women live longer and so more older women to infect?

Only 2% of these ~6500 died. The median age of death was 82 (IQR 71-89).

And this may seem silly but who knows if all of these patients were confirmed to have been vaccinated vs. just taking someone’s word for it. Unvaccinated patients coming into the hospital with COVID (or even
have been known to lie about getting the vaccine (or both shots), presumably to try an avoid embarrassment.

It’s also important to keep in mind a lot of these breakthrough statistics use positive results that do not differentiate between the delta variant and the older, less virulent strains. So we have to be careful to make assumptions about the delta variant.

In summary, looking at a lot of these statistics that get churned out lack context to really understand what is happening.

As of a few days ago a study found that 0.8% of breakthrough cases occurred in people who were fully vaccinated since January.

And in those breakthrough cases, the number 10% require hospitalization has been thrown around in the media. From the data I’ve seen, it’s actually more like 6-7%. The other 3-4% are asymptomatic but are hospitalized for another reason but discovered to have COVID while being admitted for some other medical reason.

You also see headlines about how the antibody levels in vaccinated people can decline 50% in a few months. This ignores the fact however that antibodies naturally degrade with time and the immune system does not continuously make high levels of antibodies for a pathogen it’s not actively fighting. We know more antibodies reduces risk of infection, but we don’t really know how much is enough and there are many other variables in play, like the quantity of viral exposure.

I imagine the CDC, pharmaceutical companies, and others are reviewing the utility of the third dose. If the data supports it, it’s likely adults 65+ or immunocompromised individuals received a third dose. I would imagine the rest of the population would wait until a new “booster” is created to cover the delta variant specifically, which will take some time.

This raises the ethical question of do you use vaccine on people who have already been fully vaccinated when much of the elder world population has not been vaccinated at all? Do you devote resources to producing a new vaccine to give to developed nations over underdeveloped? Will giving a 3rd dose in the US (especially when a sizable population is refusing to take the first dose/s as it is) save more people than getting poorer nations immunized?

 

[dannyyankou]

I think this graph comparison really sums things up

 

[bradl]

I think the CDC point is most valid. That breakthrough infections severe enough to threaten death or long-term health damage (i.e., requiring hospitalization) is practically non-existent in fully vaccinated people.

This is what's important, especially for those who still hold onto conspiracy-based doubts and refuse the vaccine. Important not to miss the forest for the trees.

But also what is missing are the people re-infected by COVID despite being vaccinated. A big number being missed are those who get re-infected that do not require hospitalization. That missing number plays a big factor in skewing the numbers in that report.

BL.

 

[yaxomoxay]

But also what is missing are the people re-infected by COVID despite being vaccinated. A big number being missed are those who get re-infected that do not require hospitalization. That missing number plays a big factor in skewing the numbers in that report.

BL.

I am fine with contracting COVID, have flu symptoms, and then go back to my life.
I am not fine with being hospitalized. Hence, even if 100% of the population gets COVID - and I think we will - as long as we keep the hospitalizations to a minuscule number, and deaths to 0 or almost 0, we’re good. God bless the vaccine!

 

[A.Goldberg]

The caveat with that is the second sentence in the article: "The federal government only reports data on breakthrough infections that result in hospitalization or death." So in the U.S. data, breakthrough = hospitalizations. Unlike Israel and UK and others, the US stopped tracking non-hospitalization breakthroughs.

Tracking breakthrough cases on a population scale is extremely difficult, especially in a place as big as the US. First of all, at least 30% of such cases are asymptomatic (likely much higher). Secondly, vaccinated people are going to assume they have immunity and their symptoms must be the result of something other than COVID. Third, some vaccinated people experiencing symptoms may consider they have COVID but do not want to get tested for a multitude of reasons. Fourth, with the availability of OTC home antigen tests (that have no way of reporting results), people may not seek confirmation with PCR testing that is statistically reported.

The only way to really do this is routinely test a group of vaccinated people and then see what happens. Not a lot of people want a swab stuck up their nose routinely or deal with the hassle of going to a test site or setting up FedEx pickups from their home (the latter introduces risks of errors). I would expect a high dropout rate in the general public, especially in certain populations. You could reliably get data from cohorts like hospital workers and nursing homes, but those are very specific populations and will lead to biased results.

You may be able to get some quality data on a small scale an extrapolate it, but whether or not it’s relevant to the rest of the country/world is another matter.

Regardless, the US’s quantity of testing had dropped off dramatically. At our peak (Dec 2020) we were doing nearly 2m tests per day (which is absolutely incredible considering a year earlier an infrastructure to handle such volume did not exist). In July we hit a low of 0.4m tests per day (about the maximum we could manage in July 2020). Since this current uptick in cases were seeing more testing. But we really should have a better monitoring system. The UK on the other hand has had pretty consistent testing levels since January.

What most concerns me is that we’re seeing a significant uptick in cases and that the more transmission occurs, the more mutations occur. The more mutations occur, the greater the possibly some new, worse strain will emerge, perhaps more resistant to the vaccine. This can happen whether infected people are vaccinated or not.

The US has long lacked an adequate oversight of new strains through genomic testing, often relying of hospitals to randomly sequence samples. Many hospitals don’t have the equipment, manpower, or incentive to do that though. My hospital sequences tons of cultures, but they also are a major research institution and virtually have endless piles of cash. There are many other top-rated hospitals in the area (Boston) that inevitably do this too. While this is great, most places don’t have 8 level 1 trauma centers within a 10 mile radius and more than several of the world’s leading hospitals. When you go to rural places with community hospitals, the genomic testing to trace mutations is not going to be happening at an adequate level.

 

[pshufd]

I know what the market thinks of boosters.

 

[bradl]

I am fine with contracting COVID, have flu symptoms, and then go back to my life.
I am not fine with being hospitalized. Hence, even if 100% of the population gets COVID - and I think we will - as long as we keep the hospitalizations to a minuscule number, and deaths to 0 or almost 0, we’re good. God bless the vaccine!

I think you're misunderstanding my point.

The point isn't that I'm against the vaccine; I am not, as I finally now have it. The point I'm making is that people have the misplaced perception that they are invincible when it comes to COVID because they have the vaccine. That is not the case, nor should it have ever been the case. Those people with that mindset always reference the flu in thinking that once they have their flu shot, they are invincible against it... until the next strain comes out that infects them, in which they go get the next booster, and then wash/rinse/repeat.

The point here is that the fact that the vaccinated can still be carriers of COVID should not be taken lightly, as they can still go on to infect others or get infected themselves. Provincetown showed that, and the amount of data showing protection against the symptoms or hospitalizations can dispute that.

An even bigger example: Lindsey Graham just tested positive for COVID, and he was vaccinated.

BL.

 

[pshufd]

I think you're misunderstanding my point.

The point isn't that I'm against the vaccine; I am not, as I finally now have it. The point I'm making is that people have the misplaced perception that they are invincible when it comes to COVID because they have the vaccine. That is not the case, nor should it have ever been the case. Those people with that mindset always reference the flu in thinking that once they have their flu shot, they are invincible against it... until the next strain comes out that infects them, in which they go get the next booster, and then wash/rinse/repeat.

The point here is that the fact that the vaccinated can still be carriers of COVID should not be taken lightly, as they can still go on to infect others or get infected themselves. Provincetown showed that, and the amount of data showing protection against the symptoms or hospitalizations can dispute that.

An even bigger example: Lindsey Graham just tested positive for COVID, and he was vaccinated.

BL.

I'd guess that he got vaccinated pretty early so he may have lost a lot of the efficacy against infection already.

My friend with stage 4 cancer got his first and last dose this week. He reported back that he nearly died from the vaccine. So he's your example of someone who can't take the vaccine. Or shouldn't. He wasn't expecting to be alive this long - I think that the doctors expected him to die several years ago. He found top doctors in Florida and Germany to treat him and they've done a good job keeping him alive.

 

[Richard8655]

But also what is missing are the people re-infected by COVID despite being vaccinated. A big number being missed are those who get re-infected that do not require hospitalization. That missing number plays a big factor in skewing the numbers in that report.

BL.

Maybe true, but for now we all just want to survive this thing if we get infected and not have to be hospitalized. No one, not event the CDC, knows what the future will bring with this virus. Especially now with the Delta variant.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I think you're misunderstanding my point.

The point isn't that I'm against the vaccine; I am not, as I finally now have it. The point I'm making is that people have the misplaced perception that they are invincible when it comes to COVID because they have the vaccine. That is not the case, nor should it have ever been the case. Those people with that mindset always reference the flu in thinking that once they have their flu shot, they are invincible against it... until the next strain comes out that infects them, in which they go get the next booster, and then wash/rinse/repeat.

The point here is that the fact that the vaccinated can still be carriers of COVID should not be taken lightly, as they can still go on to infect others or get infected themselves. Provincetown showed that, and the amount of data showing protection against the symptoms or hospitalizations can dispute that.

An even bigger example: Lindsey Graham just tested positive for COVID, and he was vaccinated.

BL.

I didn't interpret, let alone imply that you are against the vaccine. I simply meant that the focus should be, full scale, on the huge advantages of being vaccinated and not on those cases such as Mr. Graham's because those will scare undecided people away (plus it will be used by no vaxxers as "proof" that it doesn't work etc.). It is quite possible that Mr. Graham is alive and well because he did his part and got the shot.

Your point is right about not being invincible, but right now even if a % of people "misbehaves" this is not as important as putting the focus on the vaccine as THE main solution we have, which is very effective. It is clear that we'll never reach 0 cases, so the next best thing is to make sure that when we get sick the worst that can happen is a bad flu.

 

[A.Goldberg]

The efficacy of the vaccine is predicated on healthy individuals and a healthy fully functioning immune system. So how many healthy ideal individuals can you find in North America that can achieve the same efficacy as those healthy individuals conducted in vaccine trials. That's why the efficacy of the Flu vaccine is roughly 40-60% from the CDC website, so that's a more realistic expectation.

A vaccine does not provide lasting immunity. That's why we have yearly Flu shots.

While it’s true that highly immunocompromised people can theoretically be susceptible to just about anything (and if T-cell counts are sufficiently low such people can die from everyday pathogens healthy people fight off without ever noticing), the natural decline in immune function is not why we get annual flu vaccines or the main reason why the flu vaccine is 40-60% effective.

The reason we get the flu vaccine yearly is because the influenza virus mutates extremely rapidly. In fact, it mutates so quickly that the vaccine is based on what research predicts the virus we be like by the time it spreads around the world again in a year. Because the vaccine is based on the predicted future virus, the predictions can be off. At best you have a flu season like 2010-11 where you have 60% efficacy, but then another season, like 2014-2015, it’s only 20% effective.

Another problem that doesn’t help is that only about 40% of US adults and 60% of US children get the flu vaccine. A higher vaccination rate would likely increase the vaccine efficacy

The flu vaccine does have a rather uniquely limited lifespan- about 6 months of protection but provides maximum protection for 3 months. But the flu season is about 6-7 months but only peaks for a few months.

Other vaccines however last much longer. Tetanus shots last about 11 years, thus given every 10. Measles and Mumps vaccines last a lifetime (studies suggest it takes 200 years to lose immunity). The only reason 2 doses are given because 5-10% of children don’t develop immunity the first time. Smallpox immunity also lasts a lifetime.

One theory is that for some reason, the more repetitive structures occur in the shape of the virus the stronger the body’s immune response will be. Another theory is that we have better immunity with some vaccines because we come into contact with those viruses more often. Like we routinely come into contact with chickenpox thus maintaining our immunity which is usually lifelong (and actually the virus usually stays dormant in your body forever after recovery from the initial infection. shingles is the reactivation same varicella virus in adulthood). On the other hand, we rarely come into contact with tetanus and have shortened immunity.

I’m not sure either of these theories quite explain why some vaccines last longer than others. I can think of some exceptions that negate both. Smallpox has been effectively eradicated in the US for 70 years and globally for 40. Humans are the only known reservoir. Cases still pop up here and there, many viruses can survive a long time outside of hosts, but everyone in the US born after ~1971 has not been vaccinated. So where is all this environmental smallpox and why aren’t we getting infected when many of us don’t have immunity?

 

[bradl]

I'd guess that he got vaccinated pretty early so he may have lost a lot of the efficacy against infection already.

I'd be more interested to see if anyone he has been around also contracts it, especially if it were from a place where they were together.

My friend with stage 4 cancer got his first and last dose this week. He reported back that he nearly died from the vaccine. So he's your example of someone who can't take the vaccine. Or shouldn't. He wasn't expecting to be alive this long - I think that the doctors expected him to die several years ago. He found top doctors in Florida and Germany to treat him and they've done a good job keeping him alive.

I agree. He would be the example of someone who may not, especially given those risks. I'm glad he was able get it, and happier that he's living to tell about it.

BL.

 

[pshufd]

I'd be more interested to see if anyone he has been around also contracts it, especially if it were from a place where they were together.

I agree. He would be the example of someone who may not, especially given those risks. I'm glad he was able get it, and happier that he's living to tell about it.

BL.

Manchin's boat. Both of them are needed to vote for the infrastructure bill later this week.

He was in Washington this morning wearing a mask. I assume that he's in quarantine now.

My friend is a Twitter personality so a lot of people know about his experience now. He got the vaccine last Wednesday or Thursday but he was debating whether or not to tell everyone. I thought about asking over the weekend because I didn't see him discuss it.

 

[44267547]

Masking mandate was finally approved today for our area, it’s effective starting this Wednesday, regardless if you’re vaccinated or not.

I can tell you that board meeting was very heated (Primarily because it’s mandated until November 18th, which is rather lengthy) , and even though there’s opposing views that are both reasonable from both sides of the spectrum why masking is/isn’t necessary, this is the right measure needed, given people just don’t want to contribute to protecting their communities. Our rural counties have a vaccination completion rate of less than 29%, compared to a 70% completion rate for urban locale.

85% of our caseload is now been confirmed of the Delta variant, with a small percentage being the Alpha.

 

[bradl]

Masking mandate was finally approved today for our area, it’s affective starting this Wednesday, regardless if you’re vaccinated or not.

I can tell you that board meeting was very heated (Primarily because it’s mandated until November 18th, which is rather lengthy) , and even though there’s opposing views that are both reasonable from both sides of the spectrum why masking is/isn’t necessary, this is the right measure needed, given people just don’t want to contribute to protecting their communities. Our rural counties have a vaccination completion rate of less than 29%, compared to a 70% completion rate for urban locale.

We're at that point as well, but I believe it is county wide here in Sacramento. If it goes statewide, that might signal the end of Gavin Newsom.

85% of our caseload is now been confirmed of the Delta variant, with a small percentage being the Alpha.

What will be interesting to see is how the Lambda variant comes into play along with Alpha and Delta.

BL.

 

[iluvmacs99]

I’m not sure either of these theories quite explain why some vaccines last longer than others. I can think of some exceptions that negate both. Smallpox has been effectively eradicated in the US for 70 years and globally for 40. Humans are the only known reservoir. Cases still pop up here and there, many viruses can survive a long time outside of hosts, but everyone in the US born after ~1971 has not been vaccinated. So where is all this environmental smallpox and why aren’t we getting infected when many of us don’t have immunity?

It's not the vaccine that's doing the job for maintaining lasting immunity; it's our immunity system namely the lympthocytes or our immunological memory cells; the memory cells that stores known past infections that allow our immune system to recognize and thus neutralize the same virus if we are ever re-infected again.

A vaccine is like a security update for our immune system. It teaches our immune system how to respond to the new unknown virus which is not in our memory cells, then creates a response in terms of neutralizing antibodies and also makes an imprint of that infection into the memory cells. So after a full recovery later, and when the immune system is exposed to the same virus again, though it's not unknown anymore can immediately mount an effective defense against it because it has the memory imprint in the memory cells.

Now this sounds perfect on paper and that's what the US CDC is going with; meaning that fully vaccinated individuals should on paper be impervious to another re-infection because then the individual would have the necessary imprint of the virus and thus no longer need to rely on the vaccine to re-teach it again.

But nothing works perfect on paper, because somehow for many people, they lost the immunity to the same virus as fast as they gained their immunity through vaccines to combat that virus. There are some individuals, like myself, who don't need the vaccine to teach the immune system and can mount an effective non-precise defense against COVID and survived to tell about it and yet why other people can't do this? Why some people can do this with a new virus like COVID and survive and yet why some people need to continually need vaccine to re-teach the immune system to provide antibodies against that infection?

The science is still ongoing.

What I realized from my own observation from my own experiences with diseases; though it is NOT scientific in nature and I told my researchers about this is that, every time I can mount an effective defense against a grave illness is when it was always me making a big change in my life and is that desire to change my life to something new I think helps me overcome many major illnesses and I have this Kelvar immunity. For example roughly more than a decade ago, I was working in corporate and I knew I want to try my hands in nursing, but I was afraid to do so. The stigma that came along with a man working in nursing. A corporate life was nice; lots of women and money and then that got me sick. It was during my sickness that I looked at my life and then I said, I will make the new change. And when that happens, something else happens and that is, I got better and faster from my grave illness. It was my willingness to change, to let go of the past and embrace something new that I noticed helped me recover and maintain my immunity to any diseases. And I observed this also with COVID when I decided to let go of my past toxic friends who are anti-vax and anti-mask behind, leave my work in computers behind and decided to try something new in the hospitality industry and that's when, when I made that change in my mind that I recovered completely from COVID and also making a new choice to take the vaccine which I refused and stressed about in 2020. And I noticed that in many people who had LONG Covid and the theme was the same; those that recovered were willing to make new changes in their lives and start a new beginning. Those who always hang on to the past and keep defending the past usually succumb to many illnesses. And when I was in nursing taking care of the sick, this WAS the MAIN THEME. The sick were all trying to hold on to some of their toxic past and their unwillingness to change, to let go and to try something new.

Again, this is my observation, but I know that if I make a big change in my life towards something new, I'm always in better shape health wise.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Masking mandate was finally approved today for our area, it’s effective starting this Wednesday, regardless if you’re vaccinated or not.

I can tell you that board meeting was very heated (Primarily because it’s mandated until November 18th, which is rather lengthy) , and even though there’s opposing views that are both reasonable from both sides of the spectrum why masking is/isn’t necessary, this is the right measure needed, given people just don’t want to contribute to protecting their communities. Our rural counties have a vaccination completion rate of less than 29%, compared to a 70% completion rate for urban locale.

85% of our caseload is now been confirmed of the Delta variant, with a small percentage being the Alpha.

I bet that now your area will see a drop in vaccinations. Let me know if I am right or not (if not, next protein shake is on me!)

 

[pshufd]

It's not the vaccine that's doing the job for maintaining lasting immunity; it's our immunity system namely the lympthocytes or our immunological memory cells; the memory cells that stores known past infections that allow our immune system to recognize and thus neutralize the same virus if we are ever re-infected again.

A vaccine is like a security update for our immune system. It teaches our immune system how to respond to the new unknown virus which is not in our memory cells, then creates a response in terms of neutralizing antibodies and also makes an imprint of that infection into the memory cells. So after a full recovery later, and when the immune system is exposed to the same virus again, though it's not unknown anymore can immediately mount an effective defense against it because it has the memory imprint in the memory cells.

Now this sounds perfect on paper and that's what the US CDC is going with; meaning that fully vaccinated individuals should on paper be impervious to another re-infection because then the individual would have the necessary imprint of the virus and thus no longer need to rely on the vaccine to re-teach it again.

But nothing works perfect on paper, because somehow for many people, they lost the immunity to the same virus as fast as they gained their immunity through vaccines to combat that virus. There are some individuals, like myself, who don't need the vaccine to teach the immune system and can mount an effective non-precise defense against COVID and survived to tell about it and yet why other people can't do this? Why some people can do this with a new virus like COVID and survive and yet why some people need to continually need vaccine to re-teach the immune system to provide antibodies against that infection?

The science is still ongoing.

What I realized from my own observation from my own experiences with diseases; though it is NOT scientific in nature and I told my researchers about this is that, every time I can mount an effective defense against a grave illness is when it was always me making a big change in my life and is that desire to change my life to something new I think helps me overcome many major illnesses and I have this Kelvar immunity. For example roughly more than a decade ago, I was working in corporate and I knew I want to try my hands in nursing, but I was afraid to do so. The stigma that came along with a man working in nursing. A corporate life was nice; lots of women and money and then that got me sick. It was during my sickness that I looked at my life and then I said, I will make the new change. And when that happens, something else happens and that is, I got better and faster from my grave illness. It was my willingness to change, to let go of the past and embrace something new that I noticed helped me recover and maintain my immunity to any diseases. And I observed this also with COVID when I decided to let go of my past toxic friends who are anti-vax and anti-mask behind, leave my work in computers behind and decided to try something new in the hospitality industry and that's when, when I made that change in my mind that I recovered completely from COVID and also making a new choice to take the vaccine which I refused and stressed about in 2020. And I noticed that in many people who had LONG Covid and the theme was the same; those that recovered were willing to make new changes in their lives and start a new beginning. Those who always hang on to the past and keep defending the past usually succumb to many illnesses. And when I was in nursing taking care of the sick, this WAS the MAIN THEME. The sick were all trying to hold on to some of their toxic past and their unwillingness to change, to let go and to try something new.

Again, this is my observation, but I know that if I make a big change in my life towards something new, I'm always in better shape health wise.

You may have the right combination of protective alleles.

 

[44267547]

We're at that point as well, but I believe it is county wide here in Sacramento. If it goes statewide, that might signal the end of Gavin Newsom.



What will be interesting to see is how the Lambda variant comes into play along with Alpha and Delta.

BL.

Lambda has been around for while now, I haven’t heard of any widespread reports of that variant in the US yet. Also, I don’t know if it’s as dangerous as the Delta or not, or in the sense of how quickly it can spread.

The Delta variant requires additional testing to show its separation that it’s not the Alpha, and I don’t think I’ve heard of a single case of lambda yet in my state. The last thing we need, is another variant.

 

[44267547]

I bet that now your area will see a drop in vaccinations. Let me know if I am right or not (if not, next protein shake is on me!)

I don’t know that we’re going to see a drop in vaccinations. And I say that for two reasons, #1.) If Pfizer and Moderna come forward with the FDA approval, that will be more encouraging, which was rumored to be announced this week possibly. So for those who are using the leverage of ‘I don’t want the vaccination, because it’s not FDA approved’, will clear their doubt once we have that approval.

And #2.) When the Alpha variant first started, the question arose, can employers require an employee vaccinated under their employment policy/procedures? And the answer is yes. However, many employers weren’t really do anything with that in terms of enforcing it or encouraging employees to be vaccinated, (Probably because employers want to avoid confrontation or any type of lawsuits.) So, you a core group of people who just have been meandering around, skipping the vaccination. But now that the situation has quickly escalated and employers know that the vaccination has been available for nine months, now they’re laying the ground rules of either ‘Get vaccinated or find new employment’.

I have spoken direct to two males from two different types of industries (A foundry foreman and a transportation specialist) who said they were forced to either get the vaccination or be served with a severance package to move on, in which case, they obviously chose the vaccination.

So now adding a masking mandate, plus employers are closely watching the situation of the Delta variant, and once one employer starts requiring the vaccination, others will follow, because nobody wants to be made example of ‘You didn’t do anything about it.’

I don’t suspect our vaccinations will drop, actually the opposite for reasons mentioned above, with the exception for those who live in the rural counties, which I already mentioned before, that believe that they don’t need the vaccination, because ‘it’s not really a problem in their county’.

[I’ll still take the shake either way…😁]

 

[bradl]

Lambda has been around for while now, I haven’t heard of any widespread reports of that variant in the US yet. Also, I don’t know if it’s as dangerous as the Delta or not, or in the sense of how quickly it can spread.

The Delta variant requires additional testing to show its separation that it’s not the Alpha, and I don’t think I’ve heard of a single case of lambda yet in my state. The last thing we need, is another variant.

Exactly. Lambda has been more prevalent in South America, but seeing that it hasn't made its way up here yet we don't have much to worry about. What I was getting at was being the eager beaver - forewarning about how bad bad can get, especially if another variant is found running around outside of just the Alpha, Beta and Delta variants that we already know.

BL.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I don’t know that we’re going to see a drop in vaccinations. And I say that for two reasons, #1.) If Pfizer and Moderna come forward with the FDA approval, that will be more encouraging, which was rumored to be announced this week possibly. So for those who are using the leverage of ‘I don’t want the vaccination, because it’s not FDA approved’, will clear their doubt once we have that approval.

And #2.) When the Alpha variant first started, the question arose, can employers require an employee vaccinated under their employment policy/procedures? And the answer is yes. However, many employers weren’t really do anything with that in terms of enforcing it or encouraging employees to be vaccinated, (Probably because employers want to avoid confrontation or any type of lawsuits.) So, you a core group of people who just have been meandering around, skipping the vaccination. But now that the situation has quickly escalated and employers know that the vaccination has been available for nine months, now they’re laying the ground rules of either ‘Get vaccinated or find new employment’.

I have spoken direct to two males from two different types of industries (A foundry foreman and a transportation specialist) who said they were forced to either get the vaccination or be served with a severance package to move on, in which case, they obviously chose the vaccination.

So now adding a masking mandate, plus employers are closely watching the situation of the Delta variant, and once one employer starts requiring the vaccination, others will follow, because nobody wants to be made example of ‘You didn’t do anything about it.’

I don’t suspect our vaccinations will drop, actually the opposite for reasons mentioned above, with the exception for those who live in the rural counties, which I already mentioned before, that believe that they don’t need the vaccination, because ‘it’s not really a problem in their county’.

[I’ll still take the shake either way…😁]

Yes, companies forcing individuals to get the shot might be the only way (not sure it’s completely legal, we shall see!), but I am not so sure that the repercussions of such a move will not be bad in the long term, especially if COVID reveal itself something that changes each season as it appears to be.

I think that the messaging has been completely botched.
Time will tell!