Except if you live with people that are unvaccinated.
Why do we keep forgetting about those people?
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Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread
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Except if you live with people that are unvaccinated.
Why do we keep forgetting about those people?
Ok, but that has nothing to do with leadership on vaccination. They've been out for 8 mos. At this point the people who wanted it, got it. There's really not much more to be done with regards to vaccination. Some people will never get it.
What like an 8yr old? If you're living with an immunocompromised person my guess is the family members around them are getting vaccinated. With that said, we all know the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of COVID.
Where did I say I was looking for leadership on vaccination? I am looking for leadership. If it includes vaccination, fine. But if people aren't getting vaccinated, then we have to do mitigation.
I'd be happy with just implementing the CDC recommendations.
A child who can't get a vaccination or an adult who can't get one for one reason or another. Yes, family members can get vaccinated but that's no guarantee that the vaccinated won't get a breakthrough case. This is why some parents are freaking out over the upcoming school year.
What's the incidence of hospitalization/death for anyone under 12? Pretty low. In total the number of deaths of anyone under age of 17 is less than 400 since this began. Everyone screams about look at the statistics, look at them. If anyone expects to get down to net zero, think again. We don't accomplish that with anything health related.
For the most vulnerable population, mostly those over 65, the vaccinations have decoupled infection from death. The only figures that matter right now are serious complications/deaths, infection rate really doesn't matter as much at this time. Again, we're at the point now where the vaccine is readily available and free, it's a personal choice. If you're vaccinated then you're protected, the unvaccinated are going to have to fight for the last hospital bed/ventilator. I'm fine with capping the number of COVID beds in a hospital to not take away ICU beds from MVA's, cardiac, etc. If you made that personal choice to not get vaccinated and we're all out of COVID beds/vents, I hope you have a .45acp handy and the strength to pull the trigger because suffocating is a ****** way to go.
An 8yr old testing positive for COVID whose symptoms are that of a cold or sinus infection is meaningless. At best they might get the vaccine approved for kids down to 5. We're not going to be running around with our hair on fire for another 3yrs saying me must protect the 3yr olds from contracting the virus when the chances of them having complications are slim and almost none.
The Lancet study of 75K kids with COVID have zero deaths. But we know that there have been kids that died in the United States of COVID but the US has a much bigger number of kids. But what if it's your kid? What if it's your wife or husband that is being treated for cancer that can't get the vaccine. I do have a friend who nearly died from taking the first dose - fortunately he took it in a hospital. His oncologist told him to wait until he was off chemo.
The problem is that the unvaccinated are propagating Delta putting the unvaccinated population, and they are unvaccinated for whatever reason, perhaps without choice. And so you take mitigations, as the CDC has stated. To protect those that aren't vaccinated. If your child gets COVID, and goes to the hospital, are you going to want to deal with that? Are you going to want to deal with the resulting bills if you don't have gold-plated insurance?
I don't have the hospitalization rate for those under 12. But it's been widely reported that pediatric hospitals are filled up in Florida. And that there are pediatric patients in the ICU. And that people with other health issues can't get services because the hospitals are overflowing with COVID patients.
What do you have against mitigation? You don't like the CDC?
Pfizer, Moderna, JNJ.
Moderna is now a $200 billion company. I don't think that there's been another case of a company going from $0 straight to $6 billion in revenue before and my understanding is that they have a platform where they can churn out vaccines and maybe certain types of drugs. Pfizer hasn't gone up as much as it makes a ton of products with vaccines just a part. JNJ is a lot more diversified and I think that they have some liabilities pending for past products.
Moderna is now a $200 billion company. I don't think that there's been another case of a company going from $0 straight to $6 billion in revenue before and my understanding is that they have a platform where they can churn out vaccines and maybe certain types of drugs. Pfizer hasn't gone up as much as it makes a ton of products with vaccines just a part. JNJ is a lot more diversified and I think that they have some liabilities pending for past products.
The "what if it was your kid" can be applied to almost anything. Again, we're not going to get down to zero. It's ridiculously low as it is.
I have nothing against the CDC, I'm all for people doing whatever they feel like keeps people safe. There are some serious questions as to whether masks matter with the delta variant which is more contagious. The CDC is going to take the position of "it won't hurt" as opposed to statistic bear out XYZ and that they prevent the transmission. "We're not going to tell you not to". I honestly don't think the CDC would come out and say "**** it, don't bother" even if that were true.
Unfortunately I don't expect to see any research in this area because people see vaccinations as the solution. And that's kind of the position that our state infectious disease is taking. But we have a population that's reluctant.
Masks are just one mitigation. We have social distancing, WFH, SAH, lockdowns (as in Asia, New Zealand and Australia), cleaning everything in site, etc.
I'm in the position of taking care of someone that's not vaccinated so it is a big deal to me. I'm also somewhat compromised from cancer in the recent past so may be more likely to get it than the average senior citizen. I also need surgery which I'm putting off with these higher COVID numbers. So I would really like to see the COVID numbers back to where they were at the lows.
Most people don't care. I understand that. That's what the behavior of people are telling me.
We need a lot more deaths for people to care at all.
I basically agree with your prior posts on this. It is getting very hard to separate facts from emotions, especially when we are talking about protecting kids. Tonight on CNN, Dr Gupta was supporting school masks, and he made the point that COVID has killed 400-500 kids while H1N1 killed only 350 kids and that was considered a younger persons' infection. But, I thought....wait, given the size of the population of people under 18, these numbers are actually very close and we did not mask up schools for H1N1. So, he kind of made a poor argument. He is not a government official, but still this kind of thing does not help with the credibility of experts.
It is very hard to watch media coverage of COVID and get any information that is not hyperbolic or emotionally laden. I keep hearing words like "can get infected" and "may die" or "could possibly infect someone else". But, we already know that in a universe of possibilities "can", "may", and "could" are things with which we have to live. There is just no context when these types of words are used, and so it strikes at the credibility of the experts.
Now, to be clear, I am a big advocate of getting vaccinated and I wore my mask religiously as required by our local health officials. But, this stuff is not being communicated very well by the authorities or the media and they keep losing their audience when they step all over the message.
The best example of this is the CDC and media overreaction to and misinterpretation of the Provincetown outbreak, which has since been pretty much debunked as a useful data point for drawing conclusions about how the virus spreads.
scicheck-posts-misinterpret-cdcs-provincetown-covid-19-outbreak-report
There also seem to be serious questions about using nasal and throat swabs as a way of determining the likelihood of a vaccinated person transmitting the infection.
The point is that this data led the CDC to recommend indoor masking for vaccinated people, which in turn muddled the whole message about vaccine efficacy.
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Best presentation that I've seen on Long COVID. Two takeaways so far (I've watched about 40% of it), it affects younger adults the most, and, Israel is seeing Long COVID in vaccinated adults. Neil Howe is the Managing Director of Demography at Hedgeye.
app.hedgeye.com
Hedgeye Risk Management
The Hedgeye team features some of the world's most regarded research analysts - united around a vision of independent, un-compromised real-time investment research as a service.
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I didn’t watch the video, but it isn’t surprising that vaccinated people can get Long COVID, since we know vaccinated folks can get infected, hospitalized, and die.
This doesn’t mean that the vaccine isn’t highly effective against infection, sever COVID, Long COVID, hospitalizations, and death.
The problem though is you can't really explain it to the masses because we in America are absurdly self-centered and have a large population that thinks science is just an opinion program on MSNBC.
The real reason you want kids to be masked is because of geometric progression. One child who gets infected but shows no symptoms could start a tree of infections affecting hundreds, thousands, even millions of people. That's why you want to stop every single case you can. But people only hear, "the risk to their child is very low", and ultimately think, "I'll be fine, it's not my problem".
But they hang American flags on their front porch so they are the patriots.
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The most common symptom that was reported was upper respiratory congestion (36% of all cases), followed by myalgia (28%) and loss of smell or taste (28%); fever or rigors were reported in 21% (Table S1). On follow-up questioning, 31% of all infected workers reported having residual symptoms 14 days after their diagnosis. At 6 weeks after their diagnosis, 19% reported having “long Covid-19” symptoms, which included a prolonged loss of smell, persistent cough, fatigue, weakness, dyspnea, or myalgia. Nine workers (23%) took a leave of absence from work beyond the 10 days of required quarantine; of these workers, 4 returned to work within 2 weeks. One worker had not yet returned after 6 weeks.
So 19% of breakthroughs which were 2.6% of the study population. So uncommon but still possible.
The presentation related the effects of Long Covid to those reported after SARS 2003 and the Spanish Flu. It also presented a lot of data why you DO NOT WANT long COVID.
So in regards to children, Dr John Campbell's last video made a point of explaining the other 2 proteins that had some significance with kids, but failed to mention their significance.
When you had your exposure to the virus through natural infection and after full recovery, you would have 3 types of antibodies; S type protein, Membrane type protein and the Nucleocapsid protein (N type protein). This N type protein is responsible for neutralizing the replication of the virus.
When you only had the vaccine, you would "ONLY" produce the antibodies to neutralize the S type spike protein. You will not have the antibodies for the membrane type and Nucleocapsid (N) type proteins. That can only be obtained through a natural infection. There was a study of the wild type of the virus through Nature and found that with recovered adults through natural infection, they would have all 3 types of the antibodies. However with younger children, the neutralizing antibody for Nucleocapsid protein is not readily present compared to an adult, which would explain why kids can become potential super spreaders and virus factories.
Masks and social distancing can only help to mitigate and reduce the spread. Delta is 1260x more infectious; which means that one kid infected with the Delta variant can have the ability to spread the virus roughly equivalent to 100 kids if they were all infected with the original Wuhan variant and all in the same room. In Australia, it was observed through a CCTV camera that someone can spread the Delta virus through someone walking alongside a corridor, which is more than 6 feet.
When you had your exposure to the virus through natural infection and after full recovery, you would have 3 types of antibodies; S type protein, Membrane type protein and the Nucleocapsid protein (N type protein). This N type protein is responsible for neutralizing the replication of the virus.
When you only had the vaccine, you would "ONLY" produce the antibodies to neutralize the S type spike protein. You will not have the antibodies for the membrane type and Nucleocapsid (N) type proteins. That can only be obtained through a natural infection. There was a study of the wild type of the virus through Nature and found that with recovered adults through natural infection, they would have all 3 types of the antibodies. However with younger children, the neutralizing antibody for Nucleocapsid protein is not readily present compared to an adult, which would explain why kids can become potential super spreaders and virus factories.
Masks and social distancing can only help to mitigate and reduce the spread. Delta is 1260x more infectious; which means that one kid infected with the Delta variant can have the ability to spread the virus roughly equivalent to 100 kids if they were all infected with the original Wuhan variant and all in the same room. In Australia, it was observed through a CCTV camera that someone can spread the Delta virus through someone walking alongside a corridor, which is more than 6 feet.
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That begs the question: Could the N-type protein be replicated or produced without natural infection? If so, could that be added to a given booster, should boosters become available?
And in addition to that, could the mRNA be tuned to help a person naturally produce that N-type protein?
BL.
(I just want to point out that John Campbell is a not a medical doctor, but actually a nurse. I don't mean to take anything away from what he is sharing, but I find it a bit dubious to dispense COVID information under "Dr John Campbell", when he really has a PhD in "teaching bioscience in national and international nurse education". FYI.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-john-campbell-5256223b/)
NY Times: ‘This Is Really Scary’: Kids Struggle With Long Covid
Will Grogan stared blankly at his ninth-grade biology classwork. It was material he had mastered the day before, but it looked utterly unfamiliar.
“I don’t know what you’re talking about,” he blurted. His teacher and classmates reminded him how adeptly he’d answered questions about the topic during the previous class. “I’ve never seen this before,” he insisted, becoming so distressed that the teacher excused him to visit the school nurse.
The episode, earlier this year, was one of numerous cognitive mix-ups that plagued Will, 15, after he contracted the coronavirus in October, along with issues like fatigue and severe leg pain.
...
Studies estimate long Covid may affect between 10 percent and 30 percent of adults infected with the coronavirus. Estimates from the handful of studies of children so far range widely. At an April congressional hearing, Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health, cited one study suggesting that between 11 percent and 15 percent of infected youths might “end up with this long-term consequence, which can be pretty devastating in terms of things like school performance.”
www.nytimes.com
Some of this familiar from chemo.
Will Grogan stared blankly at his ninth-grade biology classwork. It was material he had mastered the day before, but it looked utterly unfamiliar.
“I don’t know what you’re talking about,” he blurted. His teacher and classmates reminded him how adeptly he’d answered questions about the topic during the previous class. “I’ve never seen this before,” he insisted, becoming so distressed that the teacher excused him to visit the school nurse.
The episode, earlier this year, was one of numerous cognitive mix-ups that plagued Will, 15, after he contracted the coronavirus in October, along with issues like fatigue and severe leg pain.
...
Studies estimate long Covid may affect between 10 percent and 30 percent of adults infected with the coronavirus. Estimates from the handful of studies of children so far range widely. At an April congressional hearing, Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health, cited one study suggesting that between 11 percent and 15 percent of infected youths might “end up with this long-term consequence, which can be pretty devastating in terms of things like school performance.”
‘This Is Really Scary’: Kids Struggle With Long Covid (Published 2021)
Lingering physical, mental and neurological symptoms are affecting children as well as adults, including many who had mild reactions to the initial coronavirus infection.
Some of this familiar from chemo.
I didn't know that. In the context of what he does, I think that adding Professor or Phd woud be more precise.
Our Governor responded to a question on mitigation yesterday. He said that it's up to cities and towns to do mitigation.
He is contemplating a run for Senate and he's very popular for his handling of the pandemic. But it appears that he doesn't want to do anything to rock the boat. He implemented a mask mandate last year and he had armed protestors at his house for a few weeks before they were arrested though some of them still showed up to protest, unarmed, afterwards.
He is contemplating a run for Senate and he's very popular for his handling of the pandemic. But it appears that he doesn't want to do anything to rock the boat. He implemented a mask mandate last year and he had armed protestors at his house for a few weeks before they were arrested though some of them still showed up to protest, unarmed, afterwards.
The Nucleocapsid protein antibodies (N type protein) can only be produced in the presence of the virus' DNA which the vaccine does not have. All the vaccines do (mRNA and Adenovirus) is introduce the harmless S type Spike protein that the virus uses to bind to our ACE2 receptors located in the mucous membrane of our eyes, nose and mouth and elicit an immune response towards the antigen to produce S type antibodies. So the vaccine and the boosters help reduces infection and re-infection through the neutralizing S type antibodies produced after the vaccine is introduced into our system. In fact, this quashes the notion that current vaccines changes our DNA somehow. If it does, then it would also replicate the 2 other proteins that you get from natural infection. Keep in mind that once you are infected after being vaccinated and recovered, you will have all 3 types of the antibodies, with S type protein antibodies at much higher levels than both vaccinated but not yet infected individual and naturally infected individual but without the vaccine.
The level of N type antibodies is interesting, because the Nature research showed that "age" is the determinant factor in the level of N type antibodies in our body and not the severity of the disease. The younger the cohort, the less readily available N type antibodies in the system then the older cohort. Vaccinated people, however, can get all 3 types of the antibodies once fully recovered from a natural infection.
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