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Are the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines live attenuated viral vaccines? Do they prevent transmission?
No, they are mRNA vaccines is a lipid shell. (Coronaviruses are also lipid shells with mRNA.) They mimic live-attenuated vaccines in that the mRNA binds to ribosomes in cells where the spike protein is then made. The spike serves as an antigen for cytotoxic T cells (that then learn to kill SARS2-infected cells), helper T cells ("generals" of the immune response) and B cells (which make antibodies). But unlike live-attenuated viruses, mRNA vaccines cannot replicate.

They prevent transmission in most people, just like all vaccines. And they are certainly better than the "traditional" COVID vaccines that are available (Sinopharm BIBP, CoronaVac, Covaxin), all of which are BPL-inactivated SARS-CoV-2 grown in Vero cells and emulsified in aluminum hydroxide adjuvant. All three of the are pretty much worthless because the fail to induce cytotoxic T cells and high affinity neutralizing antibodies.

The mRNA vaccines are also better than ANY coronavirus vaccine that has been developed for humans. It's not even close. The adenovirus-based vaccines (J&J/Jansen, AstraZeneca) are a distant second. The problem with coronaviruses is that they are notoriously difficult to make durable immune responses to, including after natural infection. This is why people become susceptible again after one or three years from a previous infection. Only HIV vaccines have been more challenging. But the mRNA vaccines are the most successful, so far.

mRNA vaccines are going to revolutionize vaccinology. There will be many more in the future and some of the "traditional" vaccines will be replaced by them.
 
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In the UK (it might be different in the US) for boosters as opposed to a third dose, my understanding is that the Moderna is given at half a dose and Pfizer at a full dose. It's why there's a difference in classification between boosters and third primaries, as Moderna at half a dose doesn't class as a third primary if you're immunosuppressed.
It appears to be the same in the US:

This one seems to consolidate all the primary and booster dosing info, and is linked to from the above two. It's also quite a bit longer than those. The primary dosing info is just before where this link lands, so a little scrolling will show it.

As with everything related to COVID, always check dates to make sure the info is still relevant.

Found using search terms: cdc covid booster dosage
 
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In the UK (it might be different in the US) for boosters as opposed to a third dose, my understanding is that the Moderna is given at half a dose and Pfizer at a full dose. It's why there's a difference in classification between boosters and third primaries, as Moderna at half a dose doesn't class as a third primary if you're immunosuppressed.
Also Moderna is given cos better than the others knocking us up to high 90s% protection over Astra booster, at least as was explained to me this afternoon getting mine. My first two were Astra.

it was all very explained as if I was worried Or going to refuse, at least it felt like it. My sleeve was up ready with an X painted on for the needle But the nurse was very clear and helpful.
 
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Bloomberg (paywall) has an interview with Richard Hatchett, who worked to develop a pandemic plan for George W. Bush, on the advent of omicron, vaccine strategy and what’s still ahead. Hatchett is now based in London, and runs the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, headquartered in Oslo, which, among other things, helped to fund early production of the new mRNA vaccines.


Found some of his comments interesting, extracted below. Highlights mine.

ML: So rich countries don't have a supply problem, they have a demand problem, and lower-middle-income and lower-income countries have a supply problem.

RH: We have had a supply problem, but that has shifted very recently. Lower-middle-income countries were behind the upper-middle-income countries but had greater access to vaccines than low-income countries. The low-income countries were the ones who really fell off the cliff. In the last few months, the number of doses becoming available through Covax has increased. In November, we delivered close to 200 million doses. The first week of December, we delivered 11 million doses in a day. That’s how much supply picked up. ...

ML: So we create these vaccines, we administer them unevenly across the global population, and it creates pressures on the virus to change in certain ways. If we were to set out to create conditions in which the virus was most likely to learn how to evade a vaccine before we're all vaccinated, how different would it be from what we've done?

RH: It would look pretty much like what we've done. ...

ML: If I make you God at the beginning of this pandemic, how do you distribute the vaccine to minimize the likelihood that some mutation doesn't end-run the vaccine?

RH: Theoretically, the best answer is to prevent the pandemic altogether. Once you're in a pandemic, the deck is stacked against you. The next answer is you want vaccine manufacturing everywhere, and you want to reduce that period of scarcity to the shortest possible period, and you vaccinate the world in two months, not in two years. But even before that, if I'm really God, what I want to do is this: New scary virus pops up and it's picked up by surveillance and it's sequenced and the world goes, “Oh, my God, we’ve got a scary virus,” and we clamp down in the area where the virus has emerged with non-pharmaceutical interventions to reduce transmission and spread while we rapidly develop a vaccine.

ML: And everybody knows it's only going to be 100 days, so they live with it for 100 days to avoid a pandemic.

RH: Yeah. Live with a severe clampdown in the first areas of transmission and then saturate those areas with vaccine as soon as you've got vaccines and prevent a potential pandemic from becoming a true pandemic. That’s the answer. …

It’s pretty hard — if you've got a scarce supply of vaccines — not to protect the person who's at risk of dying. You’re trapped, as long as things are driven by scarcity. The long-term solution is to create the conditions that let you eliminate scarcity as quickly as possible. Fortunately, with Covid, the period of scarcity of vaccine has basically come to the end. The supply of vaccine has ceased to be the rate limiter.

ML: So we no longer have a supply problem?
RH: Let me put it this way. The rate-limiting factor of getting people vaccinated is the ability of countries to receive and distribute and dispense the vaccine rather than the supply. ...

This is definitely not a once-in-a-century problem. Covid-19 is the seventh global infectious-disease crisis of the 21st century: SARS, avian influenza, swine flu, MERS, Ebola and Zika preceded it. It looks like roughly every three years you're going to have a global infectious-disease crisis, and that tempo is probably increasing. Creating dedicated biodefense organizations might have sounded crazy 30 years ago. It's not crazy now. …

RH: I think it's much more likely that Covid is going to be like flu and we're going to have annual Covid seasons. Periodically we're going to have mutations emerge and these may give rise to new Covid pandemics. …

If you could create something that was stable, highly transmissible, not lethal that essentially displaced the current strain of Covid, that might be the most efficient way to create immunity.

RH: That's essentially what happened with the 2009 pandemic flu virus. It was a super-mild flu virus. It had a higher reproductive number than the other flu viruses that it displaced and had a comparatively minimal impact. It knocked the other, more severe flu viruses out of play for a couple of seasons. But I'm not aware of us ever adopting that strategy deliberately.
 
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Well polio required 4 shots. Tetanus requires a booster every 10 years. Yearly flu shots are recommended. I imagine it'll get to the point where you get a booster every year instead of every 6 months.

Yeah I've actually never had a flu shot and I think it was said its only for the young and the elderly, a not required to enter a building or go to work.

And Polio actually got rid of the disease correct?

I've had 2 pfizer shots
 
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How many boosters are people willing to get before they start thinking "enough"?
I’m honestly getting close to that point. I can’t keep missing work because of these shots. My reactions to my first two doses and my booster took every last bit of PTO I had…and I accumulated a **** ton last year. It’s all gone now. I can’t do this multiple times a year. Losing all of my time for that reason has me beyond PO’d. I have a family and now I can’t take time off to spend extra with them.

If it’s deemed necessary to get a 4th…I’ll consider it, but I want to see solid data on benefits first, because each one…I’ve reacted to significantly worse compared to the one before it. After that, I’m not doing anything more than one a year. Multiples in a single year is unacceptable as far as I’m concerned. Working healthcare…I was all for it. I’m getting close to my breaking point. And I honestly believe that for each additional one…the amount of people willing to get in line is going to decrease. To hear talk of a potential 4th before people are even getting a 3rd…my confidence in this vaccine is taking a bit of a downhill turn
 
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And Polio actually got rid of the disease correct?[/U]
I assume you mean "polio vaccines", as "polio" refers to the disease itself.

Here's info from the CDC:

Found by searching with keywords: how many cases of polio in the US
 
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First the bad news: Today, my daughter tested positive for COVID. She is a graduate student in Public Health at a major University..... fully vaccinated.....tested weekly. She was scheduled for her booster this week, but will need to wait until she tests negative. My daughter is sure she got the virus by attending a xmas party with other graduate students from the same program. All students are vaccinated. All students are tested weekly. Most had been boosted. Nevertheless, 17 of 24 individuals at the party have now tested positive, and the remainder have yet to get their results.

Now the good news: All have had mild cold like symptoms. Some coughing, congestion and sore throat. My daughter had a temperature for one day, but that has passed and she now has cold like symptoms. It seems to be headed in the right direction. In general, these grad students are young, fit, health conscious and vaccinated....so, definitely not a high risk population.

One more point: Dr Fauci has stated on TV that he plans to get together with friends and family during the holidays, so I don't blame these young people for celebrating with colleagues that they know are fully vaccinated and tested. That said; the irony of a group of Public Health grad students becoming a COVID cluster is not lost on me.
 
I'm getting more optimistic by the day that Omicron will end the pandemic. Mutating into a deadlier variant is the wild card of course, but viruses tend to mutate into less severe ones from what I understand.
 
Yeah I've actually never had a flu shot and I think it was said its only for the young and the elderly, a not required to enter a building or go to work.

And Polio actually got rid of the disease correct?

I've had 2 pfizer shots

Just an FYI, the Flu vaccine is a requirement for health care workers. We have to get the shot every year. There are exemptions for medical/religious reasons, but then you have to wear a mask in all areas where patients have access (halls, cafeteria, patient rooms,...).

This has been the requirement for as long as I have been in health care (20 years).

We have annual stickers that or Infection Control/Employee Health dept place on our ID's.
 
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How many boosters are people willing to get before they start thinking "enough"?
I'm willing to get as many as the CDC / FDA recommends. I suspect that the vaccines will evolve. This is still new! As the medical community learns more, the vaccines should become more sophisticated, and possibly can be reduced to one shot a year, as some have suggested. Maybe future COVID-19 vaccines will be more easily tolerated as well. Who knows?

Of course, I'm retired, and needing time off from work is not an issue. But, if I was still working, I'd try to schedule a shot for after work on a Friday. Since you can get the vaccine at a pharmacy, this should be possible for many people. However, if everyone did that (except for retirees) then it might be difficult to get an appointment that's so convenient. Heck, if convenient, some could get a shot during their Friday lunch break since the aftereffects don't usually kick in for most people for several hours.
 
Just an FYI, the Flu vaccine is a requirement for health care workers. We have to get the shot every year. There are exemptions for medical/religious reasons, but then you have to wear a mask in all areas where patients have access (halls, cafeteria, patient rooms,...).

This has been the requirement for as long as I have been in health care (20 years).

We have annual stickers that or Infection Control/Employee Health dept place on our ID's.
Healthcare, yes this is true. It's always been a requirement for me as well. But it was also never a fireable offense to not get it...and it STILL isn't. Everywhere else...no. Never needed it to get into a public place. And while of course the flu isn't as deadly as COVID...it causes MAJOR disruptions every single year, costs economies a TON of money in productivity losses, and causes a lot of deaths that could be easily solved and prevented by requiring it everywhere ?‍♂️ That is if we actually care as much about public health as we claim to right now. Think about it. Before COVID came around, people didn't think twice about going to work sick. People didn't think about who they could potentially kill by spreading an illness. Masks? A consideration that was practically NOT on the table in most of the world.

Now, onto the topic of Omicron...I have heard shockingly little about it lately. My state's first case was a week or two ago. Haven't heard anything about that case or any new ones since then. I had a feeling when that first case was announced we'd hear about a TON more. Not seeming to be the case so far. We beefed things up at work in anticipation of it (especially because it was local) and *knocks on wood* we've been good so far.
 
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Interesting study out of Hong Kong: Omicron replicates 70x faster than Delta in the bronchus, but 10x less efficiently in the lungs. This may explain the possibility of it being less severe:

20211215-ENG-bar-chart.ashx

Study: https://www.med.hku.hk/en/news/pres...utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=press_release
 
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Healthcare, yes this is true. It's always been a requirement for me as well. But it was also never a fireable offense to not get it...and it STILL isn't. Everywhere else...no. Never needed it to get into a public place. And while of course the flu isn't as deadly as COVID...it causes MAJOR disruptions every single year, costs economies a TON of money in productivity losses, and causes a lot of deaths that could be easily solved and prevented by requiring it everywhere ?‍♂️ That is if we actually care as much about public health as we claim to right now. Think about it. Before COVID came around, people didn't think twice about going to work sick. People didn't think about who they could potentially kill by spreading an illness. Masks? A consideration that was practically NOT on the table in most of the world.

It was and still is a fireable offense in Health care. If you do not have an approved exemption, you would be fired. If you had an exemption, you had to wear a mask, which if you didn't was once again was a fireable offense.

Before COVID, we did have strict don't come to work sick policy. Managers would send staff to Employee Health, and in order to return to work, they needed sign off from EH.

In health care at least.
 
Just an FYI, the Flu vaccine is a requirement for health care workers. We have to get the shot every year. There are exemptions for medical/religious reasons, but then you have to wear a mask in all areas where patients have access (halls, cafeteria, patient rooms,...).

This has been the requirement for as long as I have been in health care (20 years).

We have annual stickers that or Infection Control/Employee Health dept place on our ID's.

Correct, but it isn't necessary to go shopping, to go spend the holidays with your family, or go to a concert... or go to... insert indoor or outdoor activity here.

Also, flu shots are not required for most school or most jobs for that matter.

But yup, even the admin staff at most hospitals and medical facilities are required to show proof of flu shot.
 
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It was and still is a fireable offense in Health care. If you do not have an approved exemption, you would be fired. If you had an exemption, you had to wear a mask, which if you didn't was once again was a fireable offense.

Before COVID, we did have strict don't come to work sick policy. Managers would send staff to Employee Health, and in order to return to work, they needed sign off from EH.

In health care at least.
Ok, then my facility must be an exception to that…because not having a flu shot has never been a fireable offense here.
 
I was only responding to a blanket statement stating that the flu has never been a requirement to work or enter a building. That is incorrect. It has been in health care (maybe not in ever state).
 
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