COVID/Coronavirus non-political DISCUSSION thread

[TiggrToo]

No vaccine, no natural stopping point, and antibodies only last a short time. So what do we do?

Stay indoors as much as possible, wear a mask when out, avoid crowds.

Covid-19 thrives on people spreading it. It’s also why it’s mutating.

Limit it’s ability to spread and keep doing it until it’s under control.

Which could be a year - or until we have a viable treatment.

 

[niploteksi]

So if thats true, then you are a Gator. You are also much younger then you like to imply given you were a freshman in college in Fall of 2012.



We have asked that question, SWEDEN lived that answer, don't be like SWEDEN (and now the US) is basically the MANTRA of this disease. The idiot governor of Georgia today is suing the Atlanta Mayor for making people wear masks in her city, despite thats what the CDC and WHO and everyone else thinks they should be doing, but the governor has a BS in Agriculture so sure he knows what he is doing. The Florida governor is almost as stupid, with his current efforts to keep Disney open long enough to start the NBA league in a bubble. They both need to listen to the Mississippi governor, he put the math out there, for the village idiots out there that forget to buy clues.
-Tig

Posts like this one is why this thread belongs in the PRSI.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Posts like this one is why this thread belongs in the PRSI.

That post didn't strike me as overly and intentionally political? It could have mentioned right/left but it didn't - just talked about specific states and their responses to masks. Just my opinion.
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Is this accessible outside the paywall? <REMOVED behind paywall>

 

[TiggrToo]

Is this accessible outside the paywall?

Sorry, but nope. It’s blocked past the first paragraph or so.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Sorry, but nope. It’s blocked past the first paragraph or so.

<sigh> that's angering - stuff like that shouldn't be behind a paywall. Thanks.

 

[TiggrToo]

Posts like this one is why this thread belongs in the PRSI.

The mods feel otherwise and have pretty much stated as much.

If you feel an individual post has broken the rules then report it.

 

[niploteksi]

That post didn't strike me as overly and intentionally political? It could have mentioned right/left but it didn't - just talked about specific states and their responses to masks. Just my opinion.

Does it have to be explicitly left and right to be political? When people take the easy way out and either writes "news stories" or pure propaganda- or misinformation pieces to either sell their media or for some reason further a political agenda I say it's political to use that as an argument.

Let me swing it the other way. Clearly lockdowns and masks are really bad. In Sweden there is an open air experiment with the aim to make everyone sick and achieve herd immunity. Sweden has less than half the excess deaths of the UK and Spain per million population. Sweden has nearly less than half the excess deaths of Italy per million population.

Clearly everyone should do as we do in Sweden and just kiss everyone we meet in the streets.

The only problem is that there is no open air experiment in Sweden and there is no goal of herd immunity.

 

[hvfsl]

No vaccine, no natural stopping point, and antibodies only last a short time. So what do we do?

Stop listening to posts on the internet that are based on rumour and fear. The black death and Spanish flu were much worse than what we have now and humanity survived them. Humanity will survive this. But until we have a workable cure, improving our ability to test for it will massively help (making it easier and cheaper). For example, in the UK there are a few cities where we have started testing everyone weekly.

 

[TiggrToo]

Stop listening to posts on the internet that are based on rumour and fear. The black death and Spanish flu were much worse than what we have now and humanity survived them. Humanity will survive this. But until we have a workable cure, improving our ability to test for it will massively help (making it easier and cheaper). For example, in the UK there are a few cities where we have started testing everyone weekly.

Black death : upwards of 150-200m dead
Spanish Flu: 20-50m dead

You may be fine with being a statistic, most of us would like to have a chance of making it through the other side.
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herd immunity.

Given the mutation rate and apparent short life of Covid-19 antibodies, I'd not put my faith in a concept that requires a **** ton of people to die, first.

 

[throAU]

For those denying this is a problem, it's just the flu, people will start dying from suicide, etc....

Flourish | Data Visualization & Storytelling

Beautiful, easy data visualization and storytelling

app.flourish.studio

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

For those denying this is a problem, it's just the flu, people will start dying from suicide, etc....

Flourish | Data Visualization & Storytelling

Beautiful, easy data visualization and storytelling

app.flourish.studio

A stark reminder just how serious COV-19 is globally right now. Quite how people play it down is beyond me. I think it’s our selfish mindsets coming out. Just because we’ve been unable to go to the pub for a few months and had to occupy ourselves and work from from, suddenly we say did all those that have died and those dying, we want our freedom back. Most of us don’t behave like this but it’s telling for those that do IMO.

 

[throAU]

Black death : upwards of 150-200m dead
Spanish Flu: 20-50m dead

Yeah, the other thing to remember is that we're only what... 7-8 months in with COVID19.

And the outbreak is accelerating, in various places that failed to contain it. USA included.


Victoria here in Australia too. We almost eliminated it there, and it turned around REAL fast due to complacency.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

This is also 2020 where we have the best medical care, research and treatment we’ve ever had. It’s very different to 1346 or 1918 which many people don’t seem to factor in when comparing COV-19 to previous pandemics or plagues.

 

[niploteksi]

Given the mutation rate and apparent short life of Covid-19 antibodies, I'd not put my faith in a concept that requires a **** ton of people to die, first.

There we go again. No one is actually putting their faith in the concept of herd immunity to stop the spread, but I'd suggest you read up on the mutations and immunity before you go shout that out as truths.

The pandemic virus is slowly mutating. But is it getting more dangerous?

Determining whether genetic changes have increased transmission of COVID-19 is surprisingly hard

www.sciencemag.org

Factsheet for health professionals on COVID-19

Factsheet on the COVID-19 pathogen, surveillance, clinical features, epidemiology, transmission, case management, and public health control measures.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

A stark reminder just how serious COV-19 is globally right now. Quite how people play it down is beyond me. I think it’s our selfish mindsets coming out. Just because we’ve been unable to go to the pub for a few months and had to occupy ourselves and work from from, suddenly we say did all those that have died and those dying, we want our freedom back. Most of us don’t behave like this but it’s telling for those that do IMO.

I'm sure that some people are helped by media making up a narrative that most people who wants to can turn against a reasonable response to the virus.

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale (Published 2020)

Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

Anyone can go onto the internet and find numbers that makes the article look like a political piece. So anyone can then claim that a lockdown or wearing a mask is nonsense. Since "conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment" actually worked better than countries with lockdowns and obligatory facemarks. Which of course is just nonsense since that "unorthodox experiment" never happened.

Understanding excess mortality: comparing COVID-19’s impact in the UK to other European countries

As countries emerge from the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, meaningful comparisons have become possible. We compare excess deaths in the UK with other European countries to understand more about their different experiences.

www.health.org.uk

Sweden is also used as an example of what happens when you don't wear face masks and that wearing a face mask is what brought the infections down. Guess what... anyone can find out that it wasn't face masks that made the difference in the nordic countries. So there we go giving ammunition for the anti face mask crowd.

I'm just a simple science teacher and not a virologist or epidemiologist and in February people called me a fear mongerer for telling people not to go to the Alps on skiing vacations if they could help it, and that if this virus actually turned into a pandemic hundreds of thousands could die and the health care systems could crash. It seemed quite clear that people in general had a poor grasp about what exponential growth actually means.

I think a lot of people aren't following guidelines because they either aren't aware of what they are doing or they simply don't understand their part in the chain of infections.

I make no claims to be an expert at this and I see far too many people falling into the Dunning Kruger trap to be comfortable about making accurate statements about this situation. I have seen enough nonsense or biased articles using silly examples to understand why a lot of people don't trust what they read or are being told. There seems no end to the misinformation being spread by media all around the world.

That's why I think this issue belongs in the PRSI.

 

[TiggrToo]

There we go again. No one is actually putting their faith in the concept of herd immunity to stop the spread, but I'd suggest you read up on the mutations and immunity before you go shout that out as truths.

The pandemic virus is slowly mutating. But is it getting more dangerous?

Determining whether genetic changes have increased transmission of COVID-19 is surprisingly hard

www.sciencemag.org

Factsheet for health professionals on COVID-19

Factsheet on the COVID-19 pathogen, surveillance, clinical features, epidemiology, transmission, case management, and public health control measures.

www.ecdc.europa.eu

I'm sure that some people are helped by media making up a narrative that most people who wants to can turn against a reasonable response to the virus.

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale (Published 2020)

Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

Anyone can go onto the internet and find numbers that makes the article look like a political piece. So anyone can then claim that a lockdown or wearing a mask is nonsense. Since "conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment" actually worked better than countries with lockdowns and obligatory facemarks. Which of course is just nonsense since that "unorthodox experiment" never happened.

Understanding excess mortality: comparing COVID-19’s impact in the UK to other European countries

As countries emerge from the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, meaningful comparisons have become possible. We compare excess deaths in the UK with other European countries to understand more about their different experiences.

www.health.org.uk

Sweden is also used as an example of what happens when you don't wear face masks and that wearing a face mask is what brought the infections down. Guess what... anyone can find out that it wasn't face masks that made the difference in the nordic countries. So there we go giving ammunition for the anti face mask crowd.

I'm just a simple science teacher and not a virologist or epidemiologist and in February people called me a fear mongerer for telling people not to go to the Alps on skiing vacations if they could help it, and that if this virus actually turned into a pandemic hundreds of thousands could die and the health care systems could crash. It seemed quite clear that people in general had a poor grasp about what exponential growth actually means.

I think a lot of people aren't following guidelines because they either aren't aware of what they are doing or they simply don't understand their part in the chain of infections.

I make no claims to be an expert at this and I see far too many people falling into the Dunning Kruger trap to be comfortable about making accurate statements about this situation. I have seen enough nonsense or biased articles using silly examples to understand why a lot of people don't trust what they read or are being told. There seems no end to the misinformation being spread by media all around the world.

That's why I think this issue belongs in the PRSI.

It's really really horribly simple: given that we know about 5% of what we need to know about this, but what we do know is that can be horribly infectious, it makes sense to batten down the hatches until we know significantly more.

What we do know is:

1) Zero social distancing, no masks = Sweden
2) Social distancing = Lower infection rates
3) Opening up the country again = increased infection rates
4) Herd immunity doesn't work (again, see Sweden)

Businesses can recover. New business will start up. Sure people will be out of work etc. But that's no different to a bad recession/depression.

You can't recover a life.

 

[niploteksi]

It's really really horribly simple: given that we know about 5% of what we need to know about this, but what we do know is that can be horribly infectious, it makes sense to batten down the hatches until we know significantly more.

What we do know is:

1) Zero social distancing, no masks = Sweden
2) Social distancing = Lower infection rates
3) Opening up the country again = increased infection rates
4) Herd immunity doesn't work (again, see Sweden)

Businesses can recover. New business will start up. Sure people will be out of work etc. But that's no different to a bad recession/depression.

You can't recover a life.

There you go with your made up stories again.

1 and 2 are just lies you either promote or have been fed.

 

[TiggrToo]

There you go with your made up stories again.

1 and 2 are just lies you either promote or have been fed.

No. Facts. You wishing to call them lies notwithstanding, they're still facts.

Sweden's Covid Experiment is Now a Certified Failure

Open Air Failure Sweden captured international attention for its decision to buck the trend on mandated shut-ins. The results are now in as Sweden Has Become

www.thestreet.com

That's 1) proven. If you wish to dispute it fur then under the rules of MR I shall require citations.

Protests probably didn't cause Hamilton County's recent coronavirus surge

Early findings by Cincinnati and Hamilton County health departments point the finger at bars, restaurants and parties, not protests and marches.

www.cincinnati.com

And there's 2). I live in Hamilton County. I've watched the numbers go down...then climb high. The climb lagged the reopening by just a week or so.

Again, any dispute of these now is required to be met with citations.

 

[niploteksi]

Below is the number of covid patients in ICU

COVID-19: The Swedish strategy - The Public Health Agency of Sweden

In the film below Johan Carlson, Director General of the Public Health Agency of Sweden, talks about how Sweden has adapted society and implemented social distancing to minimise the spread of the new coronavirus. The film is introduced by Lena Hallengren, Minister for Health and Social Affairs.

www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se

Below is the excess deaths compared with some other countries that enforced "lockdowns".

 

[TiggrToo]

Below is the number of covid patients in ICUView attachment 936140

COVID-19: The Swedish strategy - The Public Health Agency of Sweden

In the film below Johan Carlson, Director General of the Public Health Agency of Sweden, talks about how Sweden has adapted society and implemented social distancing to minimise the spread of the new coronavirus. The film is introduced by Lena Hallengren, Minister for Health and Social Affairs.

www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se

Below is the excess deaths compared with some other countries that enforced "lockdowns".

View attachment 936142

One self promoting video by the architect of Sweden's failure and two graphs with no sources do not a citation make.
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Below is the number of covid patients in ICUView attachment 936140

COVID-19: The Swedish strategy - The Public Health Agency of Sweden

In the film below Johan Carlson, Director General of the Public Health Agency of Sweden, talks about how Sweden has adapted society and implemented social distancing to minimise the spread of the new coronavirus. The film is introduced by Lena Hallengren, Minister for Health and Social Affairs.

www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se

Below is the excess deaths compared with some other countries that enforced "lockdowns".

View attachment 936142

In late May, Sweden's overall COVID-19 rate was estimated at 39.57 deaths per 100,000 residents; at the same time, the U.S. mortality rate was estimated at 30.02 deaths per 100,000 residents, according to NPR. Norway and Finland, both bordering Sweden, instituted stricter lockdown measures than their neighboring country, and at the time, each had fewer than six COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 residents.


The research group Ourworldindata.org now estimates that Sweden has the eighth highest number of coronavirus-related deaths per capita, Reuters reported.

Sweden's lax COVID-19 response caused too many deaths, country's top epidemiologist says

The country should have done more, he says.

www.livescience.com

 

[niploteksi]

One self promoting video by the architect of Sweden's failure and two graphs with no sources do not a citation make.

If you had read the above you would know that the second one was in the post from:

Understanding excess mortality: comparing COVID-19’s impact in the UK to other European countries

As countries emerge from the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, meaningful comparisons have become possible. We compare excess deaths in the UK with other European countries to understand more about their different experiences.

www.health.org.uk

The ICU are official numbers from FHM:

Experience

experience.arcgis.com

You may think you are doing people a service, but in reality you are just giving the anti-vaxers more fuel for their fire.

Edit: Removed some unnecessary political words. Btw I'm Swedish and actually living here.

 

[benthewraith]

Next, don’t kid yourself that some sort of herd mentality is going to save you: it’s looking now that antibodies last only a few months at best - and this thing is mutating meaning that it may well be possible to get it twice in quick succession.

The AstraZeneca/Oxford study is promising that we will have a vaccine by September, and they're now on stage three trials. Also, loss of antibodies in plasma doesn't necessarily mean loss of immunity, it depends on whether the T-cells can produce enough antibodies in quick succession. Viruses mutate all the time and every virus does this, but most mutations are deleterious for the virus rather than beneficial. This virus did mutate and the spike protein became more stable, but we have no idea right now whether that impacted mortality rates at all. Stories of reinfection are very rare, and in many cases are due to PCR testing picking up artifacts rather than true reinfection. And even less information to show that symptoms would be worse or equivalent. More so, studies conflict on this, but the drop in antibodies is common with both MERS and SARS-CoV 1, and seems to decline and plateau after a period of time.

Neutralizing and binding antibody kinetics of COVID-19 patients during hospital and convalescent phases

Knowledge of the host immune response after natural SARS-CoV-2 infection is essential for informing directions of vaccination and epidemiological control strategies against COVID-19. In this study, thirty-four COVID-19 patients were enrolled with 244 serial blood specimens (38.1% after hospital...

www.medrxiv.org

From the study above:

After peaking, IgM levels declined with an estimated average half-life of 10.36 days, which was more rapid than those of IgA (51.25 days) and IgG (177.39 days). Based on these half-life data, we estimate that the median times for IgM, IgA and IgG to become seronegative are 4.59 (IQR 4.12-5.03), 7.78 (IQR 6.71-9.16) and 42.72 (IQR 33.75-47.96) months post disease onset. The relative contribution of IgM to NAb was higher than that of IgG (standardized β regression coefficient: 0.53 vs 0.48), so the rapid decline in NAb may be attributed to the rapid decay of IgM in acute phase. However, the relative contribution of IgG to NAb increased and that of IgM further decreased after 6 weeks postonset. It's assumed that the decline rate of NAb might slow down to the same level as that of IgG over time. This study suggests that SARS-CoV-2 infection induces robust neutralizing and binding antibody responses in patients and that humoral immunity against SARS-CoV-2 acquired by infection may persist for a relatively long time.

 

[TiggrToo]

The AstraZeneca/Oxford study is promising that we will have a vaccine by September,

September? Publicly available? I highly doubt it.

This is the US GAO guesstimate.

 

[benthewraith]

September? Publicly available? I highly doubt it.

View attachment 936172

This is the US GAO guesstimate.

I said they'd have it, publicly available in the U.S. immediately? I doubt it. But AstraZeneca is already mass producing the vaccine.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I remember reading last week about the trials getting results in. They're already producing it? Cool. I really hope they do get it out soon. Our economy needs it.

 

[JagdTiger]

How about instead your source is biased against facts and vaccinations.

I remember the sources you used to quote in PRSI - some of the most conspiracy laden wackadoodle websites on the planet.

What channel were you watching to get this “information “?

Unlike the mainstream press wackadoodlle conspiracies?
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First of all as has been proven on this site and dozens of other sites, the number of people with virus is an undercount, much like the number of deaths is an undercount, I realize we only have a few more days till our favorite Covid-19 troll (actually technically I believe he is a generic Macrumors troll) gets this thread closed, but understand the number of people with the disease and the number of people who have died from the disease are an undercount. I am guessing you have a cell phone, that provides so much more information to the world, then ANYTHING you could put in a vaccine, that your entire premise is ludicrous. Instead believe that there are 1000s of secret cameras in your house, THAT I PUT THERE, to record everything you do, so I can steal all your money, because that is 100% easier to do, 100% more profitable, and much more likely then this stupid vaccine with a tracking device idea.
-Tig

The numbers have.been fixed and or fudged especially in Florida.