Craig Federighi Responds to Google's Subtle 'Luxury Good' Dig About Apple Products and Privacy

[mi7chy]

came here to say this... anyone who makes chips or systems does 4/8-corner testing. maybe the reporter is just a rube and is easily impressed; hard to believe apple would be touting this stuff as somehow unique?

Thanks for emphasizing that it's a common test for virtually all electronics. 4/8-corner testing is to electronics what DMV testing is to drivers so very ordinary and not special to Apple as the article paints. Surprised such misleading info is released by both Apple and The Independent.

 

[I7guy]

I have no idea why someone from Calgary would think their data is stored in China. Why they think it could be is irrelevant. It was a question that you and dominiongamma viewed as a statement. Maybe you both overlooked the question mark. Dominion wanted a source and you were "Really". As I said, the answer to the question is no, the data isn't in China. Without any other data the question stands alone. No matter how many ways you view that question, no context renders it as a claim of data being stored in China.

Sounded to me like a rhetorical question, hence the answer as to being asked why someone from Calgary would think their data is stored in China.
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Thanks for emphasizing that it's an common test for virtually all electronics. 4/8-corner testing is to electronics what DMV testing is to drivers so very ordinary and not special to Apple as the article paints. Surprised such misleading info is released by both Apple and The Independent.

Except we don’t know what Apple really does, only what the reporter reports.

 

[iMEric984]

I have some questions about Apple and encryption that I hope someone can answer.

iMessage conversations are protected by end to end encryption. My understanding is the only people who can see the contents of the discussions are 1) sender and 2) recipient.

I don't know what Google/Android calls their thing---Messages?

If I'm using Google's version of messaging, I can see the contents of the message and the recipient can see the contents of the message. There is no end to end encryption.

In both cases the sender and recipient are the only two parties that can see the content of the message---how does encryption protect iMessage more than Messages? Is it that the government can't somehow intercept the contents of the messages? That Apple can't read the contents of the messages? As a normal, run of the mill consumer, I like the idea of saying my messages with my mother or wife or whomever are "end to end encrypted," but I'm not really sure what that does for me, practically speaking, that Google Messages doesn't.

This is as opposed to "tracking" on the web, which is easy for me to understand and see as it's happening.

FaceTime is also encrypted as well.
Apple can’t even see what you wrote on iMessage and they can’t see what anything was said on FaceTime.

 

[realtuner]

If you read the filing, Apple didn't sell data. Data was being sold by two data brokers and claimed it was from Apple and Pandora. They accuse that it could be because of a bug in an API that Apple refused fix in a timely fashion.

The "bug" was that an App could look at your media library and see what songs you had, and how often you played them (based on the metadata).

There are no APIs in iOS that allow a developer to get your AppleID, name, address, phone number, device ID or anything similar. So it's literally impossible for these "brokers" to have gotten any of that from Apple.

Therefore the claim Apple sold your data is 100% false.

 

[Falhófnir]

'Luxury good' - I mean, if you do even a cursory bit of scratching around, you can find a brand new iPhone 6s for £299, still supported, and enjoying all the privacy features of the Xs Max. Frankly you'll struggle to get an even remotely comparable Android handset for much less. People will focus on the latest iPhones and call them expensive, but you really don't need to be spending big bucks to play in Apple's ecosystem and enjoy their efforts on security and privacy at all. Same goes for macs, if you just want a macOS computer, £799 MacBook Air or Mac Mini for the same price, gives you everything sans the T2 encryption which is probably overkill for most anyway. Apple are really only expensive if you must keep up with their latest and greatest. You absolutely don't need to to benefit from their privacy focus. This is where Apple absolutely excels ahead of the competition.

 

[mariusignorello]

Ok so if it shouldn’t be a luxury good stop selling user data to make up for the cost of your devices. Simple.

I don’t think some of these execs even know how ridiculous their corporatespeak sounds sometimes.

 

[bozzykid]

Apple can’t even see what you wrote on iMessage and they can’t see what anything was said on FaceTime.

Technically they can if you backup iMessage to iCloud. And they provide these messages to law enforcement all the time.

 

[Crowbot]

Siri is by far the best example of a horrible product that Apple has created. Even the third party integration is awful. If you don't say the exact phrase word for word, the third party app won't recognize it.

So, Siri sucks and reduces the value of their "premium" product."

While some products merit the premium prices, others certainly do not. Before the mac mini was updated, their price point was ridiculous considering the hardware you were getting. 10k gold apple watch? WtF was Tim thinking. Just glad Angela got the hell out, can't wait for Tim to leave next

I'm interested (no /s) in your issue with Siri. Which 3rd party apps? I think it's gotten much better and can even accept spelled words. I think the main issue with Siri's relatively slow development is due to Apple's desire to keep the whole process on the phone (for privacy). Hopefully the neural learning chips they put in will help.

I agree about the Mini.

So Apple sold a $9700 gold case (plus $300 for the watch guts) to some rube. The magic of the marketplace. The gill-nets of commerce.

 

[lost-again]

One day there will be an event that will challenge Apple's (and other technology companies) view on privacy and force them to take a different stance and share more with governments and law enforcement.

Just because that event hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen............................

 

[I7guy]

Technically they can if you backup iMessage to iCloud. And they provide these messages to law enforcement all the time.

Well they provide what data they have available based on the scope of the warrant.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Uh, my iCloud data is stored in China?

Are you a Chinese customer, based in China? If not, no, it is not.

 

[H2SO4]

As a consumer, what I want is for every technology company to respect and value my data and protect it against intrusions or simply not put my data on a public S3 bucket at the very least.

Never going to happen. Don’t forget companies are staffed by humans.
The same humans that when it suits them are incredibly dishonest.
These are the same humans that knowingly receive in error an email with information in it that is privileged but go ahead and read it anyway or even worse share it.
Ones that deliberately decide not to act in the spirit of the law.
The list goes on.
They work at all companies. Including Apple.
If everybody does their own little bit I think that’s the best we can hope for?

 

[gnasher729]

We will see, Apple is being sued for selling users information, that’s not been reported on this site though.

http://9to5mac.com/2019/05/25/apple-itunes-lawsuit/

So much for privacy Apple, sold to the highest bidder it seems... bunch of hypocritical liars.

In the USA, everyone can sue anyone for anything. This lawsuit claims you can purchase lists with very specific information about iTunes customers. It doesn't specify where you would be able to buy such a list. And if it would contain genuine data, or faked data. In my case specifically, Apple knows what has been purchased with my AppleId (that's how I can download content again), but unlike this court case claims, I have never given Apple my age, my gender, my profession, or my annual income. They quote $136 per thousand customers. Give me $136,000 and I will gladly send you a database of one million genuine faked customer addresses according to your criteria.

You see the lawsuit and call Apple a bunch of hypocritical liars. I see this lawsuit and think "what are these guys smoking?" The second most likely explanation is that they are just making it up. The most likely explanation is that some joker offers such customer lists for sale and will send you a database of randomly generated names and addresses if you pay.

 

[TheRealTVGuy]

I just wished my “great product” wasn’t crippled. If I want to buy a Kindle book, that’s my right! And if I want Google maps as my default maps app, that’s my right! Apple’s biggest annoyance is that they want to control what we’re able to purchase and customize on our phones, and that’s not ok. Sure, privacy is amazing and very welcomed. But you can’t just keep calling your devices “great” when you intentionally cripple them.

I agree. If I want a Ford Fiesta engine in my Ferrari, it’s my right!

 

[kryten3000]

Uh, my iCloud data is stored in China?

I believe they use Google and Amazon for data storage in addition to their own servers for storage. While those servers *may* exist in China, it in reality it’s a global enterprise.

 

[Morgenland]

Poor people who love privacy can buy at ebay. Older iPhones are great too and work still excellent.

 

[kryten3000]

This may not be a popular opinion, but I didn’t take these comments as a dig at Apple. It seems to me that it’s more of a blatant admission of Google’s need to play catch-up in the privacy arena.

 

[gnasher729]

I have some questions about Apple and encryption that I hope someone can answer.

iMessage conversations are protected by end to end encryption. My understanding is the only people who can see the contents of the discussions are 1) sender and 2) recipient.

I don't know what Google/Android calls their thing---Messages?

If I'm using Google's version of messaging, I can see the contents of the message and the recipient can see the contents of the message. There is no end to end encryption.

In both cases the sender and recipient are the only two parties that can see the content of the message---how does encryption protect iMessage more than Messages? Is it that the government can't somehow intercept the contents of the messages? That Apple can't read the contents of the messages? As a normal, run of the mill consumer, I like the idea of saying my messages with my mother or wife or whomever are "end to end encrypted," but I'm not really sure what that does for me, practically speaking, that Google Messages doesn't.

I don't know if Google Messages are end to end encrypted or not - if someone knows, please tell us.

iMessages is end-to-end encrypted. That means Apple never has the keys to decrypt a message that you send. Apple couldn't decrypt your message if they wanted. If the government ordered Apple to decrypt a message then Apple wouldn't be able to.

When you set up iMessages, your phone creates an encryption key and a decryption key. The decryption key absolutely stays on your phone and nobody ever sees it. The encryption key is sent to Apple. If I want to to send you an iMessage, my phone asks Apple for your encryption key and encrypts the data. Because only your phone has the decryption key, only your phone can decrypt the message.

 

[outskirtsofinfinity]

You're from Calgary and your icloud data is stored in China? Really?

I know, right!? Scary.

EDIT: I just noticed they changed the wording of the article to add "for Chinese accounts".

 

[mi7chy]

I believe they use Google and Amazon for data storage in addition to their own servers for storage. While those servers *may* exist in China, it in reality it’s a global enterprise.

Apple handed over user data to China state controlled servers which Google has refused to do.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/28/technology/apple-icloud-data-china/index.html

 

[JetTester]

These are difficult issues to deal with as technology advances at such a rapid pace. I applaud Apple for their efforts so far. There is plenty more to be done, and I hope they will step up their privacy & security game going forward. They are definitely miles ahead of Google and Facebook.

 

[1146331]

And that’s why I switched from Google services and Android to Apple.

Honestly, Google’s every fiber is evil IMO. They monetize on gutting their customers’ personal data, not giving a crap what that ends up doing to the individuals. And what’s especially low: they deliberately prey on those who can’t afford anything else.

What google does is, in my opinion, against basic human decency. But if you look at the constant flow of scandals about discrimination and sexual abuse within the company itself, it’s not really surprising.

Meanwhile Foxconn employees have to have anti-suicide nets outside of the windows at their factories.

Because you know, Apple is just so much more moral. Never mind the crappy way Apple treats its customers by denying blatant and well known manufacturing defects, requiring the customer to pay out of pocket for such repairs until they are sued and brought into the national light.

 

[gnasher729]

The "bug" was that an App could look at your media library and see what songs you had, and how often you played them (based on the metadata).

There are no APIs in iOS that allow a developer to get your AppleID, name, address, phone number, device ID or anything similar. So it's literally impossible for these "brokers" to have gotten any of that from Apple.

Therefore the claim Apple sold your data is 100% false.

The lawyers also claim that you can buy data filtered by criteria like age, income, gender and others. Which Apple wouldn't even _have_ to sell.

 

[kryten3000]

Technically they can if you backup iMessage to iCloud. And they provide these messages to law enforcement all the time.

Law enforcement would need a warrant duly authorized by a judge. The judge is going to weigh the value to justice against the weight of the constitution. The data is not Willy-nilly given away just because some rogue cop gives his say-so.

 

[kryten3000]

Apple handed over user data to China state controlled servers.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/28/technology/apple-icloud-data-china/index.html

The data is that stored in China of Chinese consumers. If they wish to do business in a country they, for better or worse, must comply with the laws of the jurisdiction.

 

[gnasher729]

Meanwhile Foxconn employees have to have anti-suicide nets outside of the windows at their factories.

San Francisco has always refused to put up anti-suicide nets on the sides of the Golden Gate bridge. Death toll so far over 2,000. The suicide rate among Foxconn employees is much less than the suicide rate among US citizens, and much less than the rate at which US retail employees are murdered. And not a tenth of the victims of the Golden Gate bridge. Yet, Foxconn took action to reduce the numbers further.