Craig Federighi Says Touch Bar on New MacBook Pro Has 'So Much Potential' For Developers

[roseform]

uumm..BATTERY LIFE went down by 2 hours? that is crap!

 

[robertosh]

They should have called it the MacBook Profit.

MacBook Profit Plus
[doublepost=1477664337][/doublepost]

I heard it was watchOS.

It's barOS

 

[gopo]

The location is the perfect place. Look at the top row of the keyboard you are typing on.

Those are keys that need to be available, but only occasionally. Keys to control display brightness, sound level, iTunes controls, etc. The top row is the perfect place. Ditto for default touch-bar controls as well as for app-specific feature controls.

When you're busy writing a letter or document with the keyboard, how often do you hit the screen brightness keys? Once every sentence, or paragraph, or page? They're low duty cycle keys.

to help you write a letter and a document, the perfect simple app (no promotion of it!!!) is PopClip....2 clicks away, all eyes on the screen....this is what they should have introduced:

Not a physical touch bar but a system app with all the functions linked with apps that developers wished to implement shortcuts. Exp: Word with it's own floating bar shortcuts etc. The trackpad and the magic mouse capabilities does the the job through their point & click, scroll & zoom, swipe etc. Eyes on the screen, shortens the time and energy spent.

 

[macduke]

There's a lot of space above the Touch Bar, especially on the 15" model. I'd like to see the dock relocated there to increase the screen real estate. Sure, you could hide it until you mouse over (I currently do this), but I kind of like the idea. Maybe the idea didn't work in prototyping.

I feel like eventually the whole keyboard and/or trackpad will be a multitouch display. The way they keep making the keyboard flatter and flatter just feels like that's the natural direction they're heading. It has been long rumored that they're working on some kind of technology that would either be able to create physical ridges or simulated, electric field ridges on a display to create boundaries for individual keys. But I'm just not sure if that's ever going to fly. I don't like typing on my iPad for extended periods of time. Key travel is very important.

I think this is the biggest step yet in the Mac merging with iOS. It has been a very slow process until now, but this is a bit of a jump forward. IDK if they'll ever become fully merged, but I think they will continue to grow to be more similar than they are different.

 

[whiteboytrash]

That alone defeats the purpose and design/UI of the messenger apps on screen. They were trying to emulate the iOS emojis on the touch bar which disturbs me. Completely dumbed down.

The difference: I don't have to take my eyes off the screen to use a mouse. I have to take my eyes off the screen to use the Touch Bar.

Well, you wouldn't be taking your eyes off the screen because you have peripheral vision, eyes can track more than one focus. They are also faster than any DSLR at autofocus! And the brian is better CPU than any intel processor.

 

[hackenbacker]

Ironically, it is developers who possibly use the function keys more than anyone - and getting rid of those keys is pretty much a disaster for them, regardless of what they might be able to create for end users.

The touch bar is vaguely useful for controlling a background app, so that you don't have the controls on the screen - but only really if you have something that needs a slide control.

The MBP doesn't need to be thinner. It doesn't need to be lighter. It doesn't need a touch bar. Making the power button a touch ID, and including most of the ports you need to rarely require a dongle, and extending the battery life is what was needed.

 

[ChrisCW11]

But how often do you use the function key row blindly to begin with, those keys are pretty much useless IMO because you never know what functionality they provide in different applications.

Because you are most likely NOT a professional. The argument being made here is this has so much potential for professionals so when you invest 10+ hours a day coding and building apps or in graphic design, or using an engineering app, or whatever, then yes, your fingers are going to hit the right function key or keyboard shortcut to invoke a feature without needing to look down at the keyboard. In fact I think most professionals will find this feature annoying in the long run because not only do you need to ensure your finger is in the right spot without tactile feedback, but that the display is showing the right content. A function key is immutable, in position and functionality, and muscle memory is a powerful tool for the professional that is using a keyboard all day long.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Ironically, it is developers who possibly use the function keys more than anyone - and getting rid of those keys is pretty much a disaster for them, regardless of what they might be able to create for end users.

The touch bar is vaguely useful for controlling a background app, so that you don't have the controls on the screen - but only really if you have something that needs a slide control.

The MBP doesn't need to be thinner. It doesn't need to be lighter. It doesn't need a touch bar. Making the power button a touch ID, and including most of the ports you need to rarely require a dongle, and extending the battery life is what was needed.

Ironically, it is developers who possibly use the function keys more than anyone - and getting rid of those keys is pretty much a disaster for them, regardless of what they might be able to create for end users.

The touch bar is vaguely useful for controlling a background app, so that you don't have the controls on the screen - but only really if you have something that needs a slide control.

The MBP doesn't need to be thinner. It doesn't need to be lighter. It doesn't need a touch bar. Making the power button a touch ID, and including most of the ports you need to rarely require a dongle, and extending the battery life is what was needed.

For the last time, press FN!

 

[Ramius]

I find it quite amusing that you think a touch screen Mac is only an industrial design problem to solve. macOS was not built for touch. Redesigning it from the ground up to support touch (or merging it with iOS) comes from software engineering, not industrial design.



Wow are people that clueless on how engineering and supply chain works?

I am sure you are easily amused by people.

The Mac OS can easily be converted into allowing more touch control. Some of the UI already looks like a touch meny. Such as the decade old Dock. It would make perfect sense to actually touch these.

And dont forget the feature I think nobody uses, but has been there for a long time: Widgets. When you load this system, its like a predecessor to IOS. And also see this in reverse. The iMovie application for iOS is identical to the one on Mac OS.

Simply because regardsless of what platform we´re talking about, Apples design philiosphy is the same. Graphic intensive user interfaces that relies on a logic where the user can understand what he´s looking at, because it draws paralells to real life. Such as all the sliders, big icons, and not to mention their previously extreme use of skeumorphism. That absolutely remains in MacOS today. But at a much lighter scale.

In Apples official answer, the only reason for not doing it is this:

We did spend a great deal of time looking at this a number of years ago and came to the conclusion that to make the best personal computer, you can't try to turn MacOS into an iPhone," Schiller says. "Conversely, you can't turn iOS into a Mac.... So each one is best at what they're meant to be -- and we take what makes sense to add from each, but without fundamentally changing them so they're compromised."
​

According to Phil Schiller. But I suspect the truth is a more profitable explenation. They have two different high selling products. And the only reason for not merging them together is because that would diminish sales of these two. Take notice of how people such as Jony Ive, don´t really provide a good explenation of why they are keeping them separate.

He actually says he´s been tempted to do it in this article: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/27/apples-phil-schiller-on-macbook-pro-price/ And Tim Cook himself has said "why would you even buy a computer today". So When they give you these ******** explenations, its all a cover up for the purpose of maximizing profits on their legacy products, before they die out. Something that will surely happen when the markets enforces it.

 

[BootsWalking]

He is the most charismatic and engaging presenter they have. It's almost bizarre they don't use him more often to unveil other products, but with Apple and their new direction (these Macbook Pros), it is completely understandable they are aloof to anything that makes sense business wise moving forward. They are riding on the fumes of Job's vision, it will dissipate soon.

I have to think it's because he's so good he makes the rest of them look bad by comparison. There's no reason Tim or Phil should be doing any portion of these presentations (outside of an introduction) other than ego.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I am sure you are easily amused by people.

The Mac OS can easily be converted into allowing more touch control. Some of the UI already looks like a touch meny. Such as the decade old Dock. It would make perfect sense to actually touch these.

And dont forget the feature I think nobody uses, but has been there for a long time: Widgets. When you load this system, its like a predecessor to IOS. And also see this in reverse. The iMovie application for iOS is identical to the one on Mac OS.

Simply because regardsless of what platform we´re talking about, Apples design philiosphy is the same. Graphic intensive user interfaces that relies on a logic where the user can understand what he´s looking at, because it draws paralells to real life. Such as all the sliders, big icons, and not to mention their previously extreme use of skeumorphism. That absolutely remains in MacOS today. But at a much lighter scale.

In Apples official answer, the only reason for not doing it is this:

We did spend a great deal of time looking at this a number of years ago and came to the conclusion that to make the best personal computer, you can't try to turn MacOS into an iPhone," Schiller says. "Conversely, you can't turn iOS into a Mac.... So each one is best at what they're meant to be -- and we take what makes sense to add from each, but without fundamentally changing them so they're compromised."
​

According to Phil Schiller. But I suspect the truth is a more profitable explenation. They have two different high selling products. And the only reason for not merging them together is because that would diminish sales of these two. Take notice of how people such as Jony Ive, don´t really provide a good explenation of why they are keeping them separate.

He actually says he´s been tempted to do it in this article: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/27/apples-phil-schiller-on-macbook-pro-price/ And Tim Cook himself has said "why would you even buy a computer today". So When they give you these ******** explenations, its all a cover up for the purpose of maximizing profits on their legacy products, before they die out. Something that will surely happen when the markets enforces it.

Yet they merged the iPod and phone, to discontinue the iPod?

 

[gugy]

Apple executives are living in a bubble. They are riding the coattails of Steve success and have their pockets filled with insane amounts of cash. Their judgment is off big time. Steve is no longer here to smack them on the head and bring them back to earth.
It's scary. Tim while good at his job doesn't have the vision to inovate. That's not his fault but it seems nobody in this company can think out of the box.
What Apple is doing to the Mac line up its criminal. Disregard for desktop and displays and crippling the MacBook line with insane amount of dongles and weak specs adding to the insult price hikes just tells how out of touch the Apple boys club is with reality and what professionals need.
Another issue is widespread their focus on too many things. Music, watch and car comes to mind. Focus on what you do best and stop trying to reach too many things.

 

[Val-kyrie]

They did not ever really say this. Steve Jobs said, to be precise, when they introduced the "Back to the Mac" concept (bringing some of the iOS experience to the Mac):

"We've done tons of user testing on this, and it turns out it doesn't work. Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical.

It gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible.

Touch surfaces want to be horizontal, hence pads."​

As a matter of fact, the Touch Bar fits precisely into this concept. I am not saying that I personally see its usefulness or that I don't even have any concerns, but one really cannot say that it is something that goes against Apple's previous philosophy.

The problem with the Touch Bar is that you are shifting your eyes from the screen to the bar. On a tablet, the screen and the items you are touching are located in the same plane, so your eyes do not have to shift.

yeahh, i hate the ports. I have an iphone, but i would not be able to connect it to the new mac directly. This is just dumb. Also, the next iPhone would have a lighting to usbC cable.

Best way to use this new mac is with a docking machine. and this is what we get in 2016, pretty disappointed.

If Apple is so big on connecting TB 3 to peripherals, why did they not introduce an eGPU / docking solution? This would have given professionals a lot more options.

For the last time, press FN!

For the last time, it does not provide tactile feedback!

 

[imageWIS]

Wonder if it's too little too late.
I haven't seen this much negative feedback on a Mac portable since the original MacBook Air.

The original MBA didn't have this much negative feedback...! Thanks Apple for charging $500 more for a tiny LED strip, BS specs, and no MagSafe. I'll keep my MBPr from 2013 until you come to your senses, or sadly move onto another OS (PC laptop machine with Windows 10 or Linux perhaps) .

 

[definitive]

Ah yes, the potential... Too bad Apple locks their more sought-after technology into their ecosystem, and doesn't let most of the developers who don't peddle their apps through the AppStore take advantage of it.

 

[talkybear]

For the last time, press FN!

Can you blind press ESC or F1??? That's essential for LOTS of tasks where I can easily close tabs or run tasks without looking at the keyboard.

 

[dogslobber]

He is the most charismatic and engaging presenter they have. It's almost bizarre they don't use him more often to unveil other products, but with Apple and their new direction (these Macbook Pros), it is completely understandable they are aloof to anything that makes sense business wise moving forward. They are riding on the fumes of Job's vision, it will dissipate soon.

I'd say Craig is the third best presenter Apple have behind that Apple Watch chap and Eddy Cue.

 

[imageWIS]

Replacing the headphone jack on the Mac with a lightning port would have made no sense. Unless they we're going to start making high quality lightning headphones/microphones and allowing 3rd parties to use lightning ports on their device. Apple didn't take the headphone jack to push lightning the did it to push wireless. Right now wireless isn't to the point where you could use it for "pro" work so taking it out with all the space they have in a MacBook would be foolish and unjustifiable.

BUT it made sense on the iPhone 7?!? Your logic is oh, so, flawed.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Can you blind press ESC or F1??? That's essential for LOTS of tasks where I can easily close tabs or run tasks without looking at the keyboard.

Sure, can you slide speed a final cut video with regular keyboard whilst using the trackpad at the same time? No. that's what you get, try not to lose sleep on this one.

 

[Jsameds]

The Touch Bar is a dumb move. How am I going to charge and listen to music at the same time?

 

[elkhound]

Touch screens on laptops just don't work. No hinge is stable enough to make using it an enjoyable experience, and you end up with a display covered in fingerprints. No one I know who owns a laptop with a touchscreen uses it (this is excluding convertible form factors and tablets that detach from the keyboard, eg. Surface Book).

The Touch Bar is actually situated on a stable platform (the laptop itself), and allows for firm presses, especially those requiring high precision.

I absolutely agree that the Touch Bar has "so much potential" for developers. That's not a guarantee that the Touch Bar is a must-have feature right now, or even in the near future. But like any piece of hardware today, it will require killer apps to make it great.

....


I have a 13” HP Spectre and I use the touch screen all the time. The hinges are strong, and there are many times when a touch screen is easier to use than any other option. When reading a long news article, for example, I put my hands on each side of the screen and scroll with my thumbs. It’s really nice, especially when I want to skim. Then I alternate thumbs and I can move though a long web page very quickly. Once you’ve had a touch screen on a laptop, there’s no going back, and that Microsoft Surface Studio they just demoed knocked Apple over like 4000-year-old Sequoia.

 

[talkybear]

Sure, can you slide speed a final cut video with regular keyboard whilst using the trackpad at the same time? No. that's what you get, try not to lose sleep on this one.

I am sure WAY MORE people use function keys than use final cut speed slide...

 

[Impatientmac]

BUT it made sense on the iPhone 7?!? Your logic is oh, so, flawed.

I actually don't think it was a good decision to remove the headphone jack, but some arguments could be made that it helped waterproof and save space for the new home button. It's more excusable on a phone. My point was putting a lightning port would just make a not so great/questionable decision worse not better. It's easier to find acceptable replacements for headphones on a phone vs a laptop when the applications/uses are more varied.

 

[iEMH]

Fujitsu doesn't even use Fingerprint anymore. They now have PalmVein ID which scans your plan veins in a fraction of a second which is way more secure than fingerprint and cannot be faked easily.

They still use the fingerprint reader in some business laptops.
PalmSecure is starting to gain market, but at a cost.

 

[2013.1]

Anybody knows whether the headphone jack on the 13 and 15 new MBPs is still also an optical audio line out (like on previous models), or is it just a simple headphone jack ? I use my MBP a lot closed, hooked up to a desktop display and to my audio video amp via optical audio out, and would be quite pissed to go back to analog hook up to the amp, which created plenty of scratching and strange things ...

I don't see why it wouldn't be.

Because in the tech specs from September it stated:

• 3.5 mm headphone jack
  • Support for Apple iPhone headset with
    remote and microphone
  • Support for audio line out (digital/analog)

Now it says:

• 3.5 mm headphone jack

https://web.archive.org/web/20160916222747/https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/

http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/