Craig Federighi Talks Bringing iOS Apps to macOS, Reiterates No Plans for Touchscreen Macs

[Greymacuser]

And Apple fails to get it once again. You used to innovate. Now you stagnate. I think Craig 'The Failure' Federighi is about as forward thinking as a parody of Ford.
You can have any type of computer you like, as long as it sucks.

 

[0388631]

Oh good. With the soft metal hinges they use your touch MacBook Pro would resemble a swingset in about a year.

 

[tech3475]

Let's explore this feeling of annoyance further. Why do you think you got annoyed? Here is one theory:
For years, you believed Apple's arguments against touchscreen Macs and Macbooks. And you believed Apple when they said that nobody wants or should have a touchscreen desktop or laptop computer. But now you see people trying to use your Macbook as a touchscreen. This set off a feeling of cognitive dissonance. Of course you didn't want to say that Apple was wrong. But at the same time, you could not deny what you were seeing with your own eyes. Perhaps you were also trying to avoid jumping to conclusions against the person touching your Macbook screen ("He must be stupid, because only stupid people expect laptops to have touchscreens"). You wanted a clear sense of right vs. wrong. Naturally, we want to see ourselves on the "right side" of everything. Not knowing where to direct the blame, this feeling of mental conflict continued to build up subconsciously until it manifested in the conscious mind as a feeling of annoyance. What do you think?

Umm no, I just found it annoying because of potential unnecesary damage and marks to the screen.

So......how bored were you?

 

[Mac 128]

I think he knows it's god awful, but people demand keyboards so Apple made them for idiots to use. It's a horrible horrible experience I used it for about 3 minutes and gave up. It's even worse than a touch screen laptop because you've no mouse either and touching the screen is the primary way to interact with an iPad. I found myself trying to find keyboard shortcuts so I didn't have to reach up and touch a screen - on a device that was designed to be soley a touch screen...woeful UX.

Still Steve Troughton Smith loves it and his weird fetish for Macs to die so he can do all his work on a phone OS.
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It really really isn't - they're nothing like each other. It IS fatiguing to reach up and touch a screen, it's horrible, as per the experience of using a smart keyboard above.

He's totally right a laptop should never ever ever have any touch screen input you've a giant trackpad there that works much better.

No, it really is. Unless you use it as the primary input mehod, as is the case of a touch screen iPad, which does not allow for any other input methods (save a keyboard) per your example above.

If the touch screen is not the primary input as I propose, it’s no more fatiguing to reach out and touch the screen occasionally as needed, or preferred, than it is to constantly hold an iPad in front of oneself and type on it, and shift the entire weight to one hand while trying to poke it in midair with the other.

I’ve used a touch screen laptop, and I find many aspects of it incredibly intuitive and far easier to quickly handle some things than constantly shifting to the mouse or trackpad all the time, and I never found it fatiguing. As for the latter, I’m doing it right now as I lay on the couch typing this, and I can tell you it’s damn fatiguing.

 

[recoil80]

I think they took the right approach.
I'm an iOS developer, I tried to make simple Mac apps with AppKit but didn't have time to dig into the framework since iOS is my main platform of interest. If I can simply port my apps to the Mac adding a little bit of code to enable menus it's great, and I bet a lot of fellow developers will quickly make their iOS apps available on the Mac.

 

[nahkampfwombi]

As for Macbooks I guess Craig is on the right track.
Even though I try to use my Macbook by touching the screen from time to time ... because I use Surface Books very often too.

But what Craig is clearly missing is, that people no longer want two devices to carry with them.
2-in-1 is way better and smarter than having a 3k$ Laptop and a 1k$ Tablet with two charging kits, multiple adapters for every device and different input modes. iPad with touch and macbook with keyboard.
Seriously. This is just funny because Apple is clearly on the wrong track from my point of view.

 

[mrklaw]

"We really feel that the ergonomics of using a Mac are that your hands are rested on a surface, and that lifting your arm up to poke a screen is a pretty fatiguing thing to do," he said.

but typing on an ipad pro smart keyboard and needing to lift your arm up to poke the screen is fine? Mouse support please

 

[maxolson]

While I can see how they take a stance against having a touch screen laptop, it's weird that they don't see an issue with the iPad + keyboard combo. You have to keep raising your arm to interact with it because it doesn't have trackpad support: there is no resting your arms there... anyone else feel the same?

In a new interview with Wired today, Apple senior vice president of software engineering Craig Federighi discussed yesterday's WWDC keynote, particularly touching upon the company's years-long plan to bring some iOS apps to macOS. In a memorable keynote moment, when Federighi mentioned users constantly asking if Apple would merge iOS and macOS, a giant "No" appeared on screen behind him.

However, the company did detail a plan to take key framework elements from iOS and UIKit and adapt them for macOS, resulting in tools that will let third-party developers easily port iPhone and iPad apps to Mac in 2019. In the interview, Federighi again explained that right now the plan is not to build a single Apple Operating System, but to begin testing out the updated UIKit tools in its own apps for Home, News, Stocks, and Voice Memos, coming in macOS Mojave later this year.

Naturally, when news about iOS apps appearing on macOS emerges, people begin to wonder again about a touchscreen MacBook. Federighi quickly shot down that idea -- which has surfaced again and again over the years -- by saying he's "not into touchscreens" on desktop computers, and likely never will be. He also mentioned that Apple doesn't see touchscreen-enabled laptops as rivals.
Back on the topic of the iOS/macOS update, Federighi said that instead of these tools being emulators, Apple's plan is building a software framework for iPhone that can be brought over to Mac and "made native" to Mac. Parts of this porting process will be automated, "like turning a long press on iOS into a two-finger click on a Mac," but extra coding is predicted for UI items like menus and sidebars.
In terms of potential games to make this leap, Federighi mentioned Epic's Fortnite as a likely candidate for porting, and he also stated that websites like IMDB, Yelp, and DirecTV could gain native desktop Mac apps. While these websites could have macOS apps now, the current toolset for developers is "just more work," Wired pointed out, and Apple's new UIKit update in macOS Mojave should make the process a bit simpler.

It's not currently clear when the new tools will be ready for third-party developers, but it appears it will take some time as Federighi suggested we will hear more about the project at WWDC 2019.

Article Link: Craig Federighi Talks Bringing iOS Apps to macOS, Reiterates No Plans for Touchscreen Macs

 

[Ecofritze]

I don't get it. Why do they enhance the mark-up functions of Preview and Quick View while not (publicly!) considering adopting touch screens and support for pencils? Using mark-up with a mouse is a nightmare, and the Trackpad improves this only slightly.

 

[RobertPS]

I sincerely hope this does not lead to the "dumbification" of programs on MacOS. With that I mean less functionality, less information on your screen (e.g. some useful stuff in a sea of white), the impression that you're using a giant phone. It's up to developers I guess.

 

[Ghost31]

I was more on Apple’s side until I really sat down and thought about it. The way you interface with a computer does not matter if you have multiple options. Someone should ask Craig “what if I love to use the MacBook with the trackpad most of the time but that there are times I wanna take notes with Apple Pencil? Or annotate something? Or do a quick sketch?” The answer is buy an iPad and that’s pretty stupid considering all you’d have to do is turn it into a 2 in 1. Just use the natural trackpad interface for normal laptopping (new word?) but when you want a touchscreen, fold it and use a pencil. This doesn’t seem like some radical idea.

And why is this unworkable? Make a new hinge that allows folding, make the screen touch enabled and add pencil support. Why does this need to be a huge debate that needs to go on years and years?

 

[ChrisCW11]

What's the point of iOS apps on macs without touch-screen support? Why does Apple insist on keeping some things separate and then blurring the lines by trying to mash up macOS and iOS in other ways.

Also if you can only drive iOS apps on Macs using cursor, then implement cursor support in iOS and then provide a proper keyboard/trackpad cover, like their competition, so that iPad Pro can really be used for professional purposes in a supposed post-PC era.

Apple is trying so hard to save face by not acknowledging that competitive devices like Surface and Chromebooks actually make sense and are what is desired by consumers that they are systematically building poor usability into their platforms, such as forcing you to use cursors on ported iOS apps on Mac, and forcing you to constantly lift your hands off a keyboard to touch a vertical screen when iPad Pro is set up like a desktop workstation. Just swallow crow and add touch support on Macs and cursor support on iOS, period.

 

[DNichter]

The main argument used by Craig Federighi, Phil Schiller, and posters in this forum is "fatigue" and "gorilla arm". That was the argument quoted in the article. And the same argument has been repeated several times by other posters in this same thread.

The existence of highly adjustable touchscreens like the Surface Studio addresses the fatigue/gorilla arm argument and renders it moot.

If you disagree, then explain why. But do not start interjecting other arguments about unrelated issues, because that is moving the goal posts.

But if you agree that the Surface Studio and similar screens do address the fatigue/gorilla arm argument, then do you think it is appropriate for Craig, Phil, and the posters in this forum to keep using that argument?

I'll do my best. I feel like you are asking both my personal opinion and the reasoning of the company, which of course I cannot do. I'll try though. So because 1 computer exists, that makes the gorilla arm point moot? Okay, if you say so. I am not sure using a $3,000 computer is a good example considering the majority of people have never and will never use it. Could Apple make one? Sure. Would they then have to rewrite the OS, yes. Again, I don't think this is something they want to do as it will likely result in compromises on both ends. I personally do not like touch screen laptops as I find them gimmicky and prefer to use a track pad in that scenario. I don't draw or anything so I really have no use for them. From my point of view, the company does not feel the need to create such devices as it will lead to compromises to both platforms, which they would prefer not to do. I hope this answers your question and stays to the topic.

 

[erinsarah]

Clearly hasn't seen 2-in-1 laptops or the surface book designs? They manage to solve all 'ergonomic issues'. Have you seen the new Asus with a touchscreen pad? They all leave your touch bar effort in the dust. Talking about ergonomics - how are your keyboard lawsuits going?

As I said in a previous post, I firmly believe we are going to see "something" like a touchscreen Mac in the next couple of years, despite what CF said. He said they've never looked at an existing setup and said, "how soon can we get there?". But he didn't say they aren't working on something different or perhaps better. They also said TV was a hobby and the smart watch was useless. Until it wasn't.

You're exactly right about the iPad/Keyboard paradigm, and throughout my day I see plenty of reasons to be able to switch from keyboard to display-only without switching devices. The Surface and the MS Studio are gaining traction and working the kinks out, and becoming viable contenders. The only thing, position-wise, that the Surface doesn't do is function as an actual LAPtop, with the flimsy keyboard cover.

Given the Keyboard horrors and the uselessness of the touch bar, I firmly believe they are in the process of building out a brand new concept for the Macbook that will include a touchscreen...they just don't want us to know yet.

 

[Frobozz]

It’s pretty obvious that Apple would prefer to sell you an iPad to compliment your Mac. I certainly have. While those Windows hybrid laptops are versatile, they’re not great at either use case. Try them long enough and you’ll see. You’ll use the laptop as a laptop and never as a tablet. When Apple has such a nice lineup of tablets it doesn’t make sense unless you were a company willing to sell compromise products to save users money. Apple has never been that company, and although I think it would be trivial to add a touchscreen to a MacBook with a swivel screen, they won’t. Even with the Surface Pro, the iPad Pro is a superior product for those use cases and the MacBook Pro a superior laptop.

 

[engbren]

THEN EXPLAIN THE ERGONOMICS OF THE SMART KEYBOARD ON THE IPAD PRO CRAIG.

Pointer support would fundamentally change the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard combo for the better.

I love my iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard but mouse / pointer support would make it just that much better for me as a tool for getting work done. I am not a graphic designer or artist and my workflows typically involve editing large word documents, spreadsheets and presentations. These are not glamorous tasks and they can be achieved on iPad Pro but are presently more cumbersome than on a laptop. There are certain scenarios where the iPad Pro outshines my MacBook Air (13") - e.g. on a plane, I can't open the MacBook Air and comfortably view the screen and type. My old 11" MBA was perfect in this scenario. The iPad Pro enables me to continue to type notes, edit documents etc.
Adding mouse/pointer support to iPad would fundamentally change my workflow by getting rid of that fatigue that Craig talks about, so I could use the iPad Pro for 80-90% of my work instead of 10-20% and the odd occasion on a plane.

 

[DNichter]

No touchscreen screens maybe, but I'll wager we'll have "touchscreen" keyboards by 2020. The touchbar is the obvious precursor to that.

Imagine the power that will give software developers to have totally customisable keyboards for their applications?!

This is where my mind goes as well. I think they could introduce a super thing clam shell iOS device with an all touch screen keyboard that adapts to different apps. This seems like a much better solution.

 

[convergent]

It’s pretty obvious that Apple would prefer to sell you an iPad to compliment your Mac. I certainly have. While those Windows hybrid laptops are versatile, they’re not great at either use case. Try them long enough and you’ll see. You’ll use the laptop as a laptop and never as a tablet. When Apple has such a nice lineup of tablets it doesn’t make sense unless you were a company willing to sell compromise products to save users money. Apple has never been that company, and although I think it would be trivial to add a touchscreen to a MacBook with a swivel screen, they won’t. Even with the Surface Pro, the iPad Pro is a superior product for those use cases and the MacBook Pro a superior laptop.

Apple does want to sell you 2 products. Your assessment that the iPad Pro is superior is based on what use? If its based on doing work in Microsoft Office on anything remotely complicated.

It seems that whenever this comes up on MR, the "they'd have to make compromises" argument is played. But its always a single sided analysis. Your assumption is that there are no compromises with Apple's 2 device strategy... and there are many. I have to carry two devices instead of one, along with the bag of chargers, dongles, etc.. I have to deal with two different operating systems. I have to worry about where my files are, which can be a bit tricky if you are on a plane and disconnected. And the functionality in the apps is all different from device to device.

I don't get it. Why do they enhance the mark-up functions of Preview and Quick View while not (publicly!) considering adopting touch screens and support for pencils? Using mark-up with a mouse is a nightmare, and the Trackpad improves this only slightly.

This was the most ridiculous part of the keynote... them "announcing" the new feature of markup in Preview, and the lame (and should I also say very insecure) copying a JPG of his signature onto a document? Really, that's all they've got. Markup on a Surface Pro is one of its greatest features in tablet mode.

As for Macbooks I guess Craig is on the right track.
Even though I try to use my Macbook by touching the screen from time to time ... because I use Surface Books very often too.

But what Craig is clearly missing is, that people no longer want two devices to carry with them.
2-in-1 is way better and smarter than having a 3k$ Laptop and a 1k$ Tablet with two charging kits, multiple adapters for every device and different input modes. iPad with touch and macbook with keyboard.
Seriously. This is just funny because Apple is clearly on the wrong track from my point of view.

This 100%! If you do long haul travel, carrying all this other stuff is a real pain. A coworker that I have traveled all over the world with is an avid Apple fan. He travels with his Dell Windows laptop for work, a Macbook, an iPad, and his iPhone. When we are making a connection he's trying to charge all that stuff up, and seems to always be on the wrong device. Over the last year he's watched my use of the Surface Pro... I travel with that and my phone. I can do all my work stuff, home stuff, and media. When making a connection, I just have the one charging brick to pull out, which is tiny. He just told me a few weeks ago he was planning to buy a Surface Pro now.

 

[DNichter]

What's the point of iOS apps on macs without touch-screen support? Why does Apple insist on keeping some things separate and then blurring the lines by trying to mash up macOS and iOS in other ways.

Also if you can only drive iOS apps on Macs using cursor, then implement cursor support in iOS and then provide a proper keyboard/trackpad cover, like their competition, so that iPad Pro can really be used for professional purposes in a supposed post-PC era.

Apple is trying so hard to save face by not acknowledging that competitive devices like Surface and Chromebooks actually make sense and are what is desired by consumers that they are systematically building poor usability into their platforms, such as forcing you to use cursors on ported iOS apps on Mac, and forcing you to constantly lift your hands off a keyboard to touch a vertical screen when iPad Pro is set up like a desktop workstation. Just swallow crow and add touch support on Macs and cursor support on iOS, period.

They have stated that some apps will work well on macOS, but not all of them. I think what they are trying to do is take the best ideas/features from both platforms and bring them to the other, while still keeping them focused on what they do best. I use an iPad Pro as my main computer (aside from my iPhone X) and I type on it for a good bit of the day. I try not to touch the screen much though (it's a pain) and rely on keyboard shortcuts primarily.

 

[Mac 128]

They have stated that some apps will work well on macOS, but not all of them. I think what they are trying to do is take the best ideas/features from both platforms and bring them to the other, while still keeping them focused on what they do best. I use an iPad Pro as my main computer (aside from my iPhone X) and I type on it for a good bit of the day. I try not to touch the screen much though (it's a pain) and rely on keyboard shortcuts primarily.

Why would you choose an iPad Pro as your main computer, if you find it a pain to touch the screen?

 

[DNichter]

Why would you choose an iPad Pro as your main computer, if you find it a pain to touch the screen?

While I am using it to type, it's a pain. I don't like having to reach up and touch when it is set up that way. Besides that, I love it as my main computer. While holding it normally in my hands or flat on my desk, I don't mind touch at all. I like the flexibility it gives me, lot's of app choices, battery life is amazing, super light and easy to move around with (I move around my office a bit to work with my team), zero maintenance, privacy and security is great, things like that. I just prefer iOS to macOS at this point. An iPad Pro is really cost effective as well.

 

[convergent]

While I am using it to type, it's a pain. I don't like having to reach up and touch when it is set up that way. Besides that, I love it as my main computer. While holding it normally in my hands or flat on my desk, I don't mind touch at all. I like the flexibility it gives me, lot's of app choices, battery life is amazing, super light and easy to move around with (I move around my office a bit to work with my team), zero maintenance, privacy and security is great, things like that. I just prefer iOS to macOS at this point. An iPad Pro is really cost effective as well.

Just curious what kind of work you do? I can't imagine doing most of my work on an iPad. Whether its complex spreadsheets, putting together information into a Powerpoint and having screen real estate, even looking at different web sites together along with other documents. With a traditional laptop, you have the flexibility to use different modes... and with hybrids you have even more options. You have only the options of full tablet, or adding a keyboard. I'm guessing it greatly depends on the kind of work you do.

 

[Abazigal]

While I am using it to type, it's a pain. I don't like having to reach up and touch when it is set up that way. Besides that, I love it as my main computer. While holding it normally in my hands or flat on my desk, I don't mind touch at all. I like the flexibility it gives me, lot's of app choices, battery life is amazing, super light and easy to move around with (I move around my office a bit to work with my team), zero maintenance, privacy and security is great, things like that. I just prefer iOS to macOS at this point. An iPad Pro is really cost effective as well.

Similar experience here. My iPad is the ideal combination of ease of use, battery life and portability.

I find that in more than one instance, Apple has already telegraphed their vision for the future of the Mac. Take a macbook and imagine what it would be like in the future. The answer is - an iPad. Just as AR glasses will likely take the place of the iMac display (and any computer with a large screen for that matter).

Mark my words. The iPad will become the general-purpose computer of the masses. It's only a matter of time. The key question then is - where does that leave the Mac? Should Apple double down on the Mac or continue to try and migrate as many users from macOS to iOS?

 

[DNichter]

Just curious what kind of work you do? I can't imagine doing most of my work on an iPad. Whether its complex spreadsheets, putting together information into a Powerpoint and having screen real estate, even looking at different web sites together along with other documents. With a traditional laptop, you have the flexibility to use different modes... and with hybrids you have even more options. You have only the options of full tablet, or adding a keyboard. I'm guessing it greatly depends on the kind of work you do.

Yea, to me it all comes down to tasks the user needs to do. I manage a team of 50 people for a logistics company. Most of the work I do is people management and commercial engagement. I use Safari, Email, Word, and One Note primarily, so that lends to me being able to use an iPad pretty effectively. I do need to review presentations and spreadsheets often, but I am in no way responsible for the creation of these documents. I know it's not for everyone, but for me, the iPad has been great. Plus, at night it's awesome for couch surfing and content consumption. It's been very freeing.

 

[Abazigal]

Just curious what kind of work you do? I can't imagine doing most of my work on an iPad. Whether its complex spreadsheets, putting together information into a Powerpoint and having screen real estate, even looking at different web sites together along with other documents. With a traditional laptop, you have the flexibility to use different modes... and with hybrids you have even more options. You have only the options of full tablet, or adding a keyboard. I'm guessing it greatly depends on the kind of work you do.

My school just switched us from touchscreen laptops to the HP Elite X2 (essentially a Surface Pro clone). I find it's a passable laptop (which is a misnomer, in that it's form factor makes it ill suited for use on any surface other than a table). It's definitely thinner and lighter. But it's no iPad replacement, I give you that. Windows 10 just isn't designed for on-the-move computing the same way iOS is.

People criticise the iPad as being a blown-up iPhone. To me, that's precisely what I like about the iPad, and the fact that it runs iOS, not macOS.