Dashboard Exposed

[iChan]

the ripple effect is pretty cool. i have a very good feeling that tiger will blow people away once released. we just haven't seen the pure awesome-ness, yet.

yeah, what i love about it is that it takes the OS away from being so static and gives it an almost organic quality.

 

[Jalexster]

Things are looking up for Konfabulator

I like the sound of Konfabulator using CoreImage. Scalable widgets.

Anouther advantage that Konfab has over Dashboard, is the faact it can be easily updated, before apple gets a chance, sure there is System Update, but it's still not as upgradable, without having to update core parts of the system, if it is intergrated into Expose.

(I hope I'm not making an idiot out of myself again)

 

[iChan]

take a look at this people...

http://news.com.com/1606-2-5234982.html

just an example of what MS will be able to do with their Avalon (think quartz extreme - bastardised) graphics rendering system.

is it frankly quite impressive and a MASSIVE leap for them. nothing that coreimage can't do now though (well, in 2005), and do much better.

 

[netytan]

The end of stickies?

Well, is it? I love these little guys and i would hate to have to use Dashboard if this is all i would use it for 🙁. Personally, i think the idea is ok... but lacks all the spark of OSX style!

Mark.

 

[iChan]

Apple should have hired Arlo and Perry to take care of this. Give them access to the OS and they would have an awesome non-hoggy version of K in no time. 😕 (Many of the lag issues I have are more due to my low grade video cards than anything else)
/QUOTE]

the thing is, i feel that the dashboard feature is something that was added to show off the capability of CoreImage and to really inspire the development community.

now with Coreimage, many of the problems with Konfab are overcome almost through the technology of CoreImage, now through some fancy coding of the Dashboard app itself. So, in my opinion, Arlo and Perry weren't needed... Apple must move on.

 

[iChan]

Well, is it? I love these little guys and i would hate to have to use Dashboard if this is all i would use it for 🙁. Personally, i think the idea is ok... but lacks all the spark of OSX style!

Mark.

well, i see no reason for stickies to go... unless they are going to be permanently embedding into dashboard which is something that i think apple will do...

however, with apps like calculato, they have to keep it for the scientific calulator. but clock?? no...

is there anything that you can do with stickies now that you think cna't be done with stickies under dashboard?

 

[1macker1]

That's pretty darn cool!

take a look at this people...

http://news.com.com/1606-2-5234982.html

just an example of what MS will be able to do with their Avalon (think quartz extreme - bastardised) graphics rendering system.

is it frankly quite impressive and a MASSIVE leap for them. nothing that coreimage can't do now though (well, in 2005), and do much better.

 

[SilentPanda]

I don't think the ripple effect is useless.

Those widgets, despite how they look on a tiny screen, aren't big. When you open most apps, you have two visual indications: the menu bar changes, and the main window of the app (usually) pops up.

Neither of these things is true for widgets. They pop up, somewhere on your screen (wherever it was you last closed them from and/or wherever there is space for them to pop up). The ripple effect gives visual indication that (1) yes, you really did click on that widget's name, and (2) here's where the widget went.

IMHO, what this is a perfect example of is people dissing eye candy without having tried the thing out ... the eye candy is there for a reason.

Wow. I never thought of it that way. I installed Konfab last night to check it out and my biggest problem was that I would open some of the smaller widgets and not even know where they were. Especially once I had several on the screen and a widget would appear on top of another one. The water ripple effect would have made it possible for me to easily find my new widgets.

 

[iChan]

Up until now, most of the 'eye candy' has had a function:

The 'Genie' effect readily identifies to OSX rookies where windows go when minimized - there's no such thing as the user clicking minimize and wondering where their window went.

The Dock magnification allows more icons in the Dock, and yet have them scale large enough to be visually distinguished from each other.

Likewise, you can find some kind of visual feedback reasoning behind most of the 'candy' in OSX, but the ripple effect above looks to be pure useless gloss to me.

I think we will see more of the eye candy, especially with CoreImage because it won't be much of a hit on resources...

actually, i am confusing myself... is there a huge difference between quartz extreme and CoreImage? is coreimage just a set of filters?

 

[savar]

Cough it up Apple

There is an inherent risk for the developers of Konfabulator and similar enhancements. Windows users will remember WinFax. A useful utility that made a lot of money until Microsoft included faxing in their OS. There is a limited window of opportunity for this type of development and it requires that you always be one step ahead of the OS. Konfabulator's time has come. Move on.

Well I always assumed that if Apple ripped off *my* shareware -- if only in concept and not even in appearance -- that I could expect a check for $5000. Konfab has probably taken a thousand hours to develop (including the website, etc.) and now Apple is poaching its territory. I think Apple will do it a smidgen better and the fact that its free (with purchase of OS, 🙂 instead of $25 means I will actually use it. Nevertheless, the concept is uncannily based on Konfabulator; a small check from Apple would help justify all the work he's put into it.

Otherwise, this is a sign to all shareware developers: don't develop any utilities that are too useful to mainstream users, or Apple might put you out of business.

Clearly that's the wrong message to send. The worst part is that $5000 is so little to Apple and so much to independent shareware developers.

 

[tny]

You must be in a generous mood. It's a Javascript API. Big deal. I suppse we should all pay everyone for their web site ideas that blatantly keep getting ripped off as well.

The developer should feel pleased that his widget set was noticed by Apple and for $25 who the hell would pay it when OS X brand new is only $129?

It reminds me of The Jerk when the kid wins the prize and Steve Martin widdles down the best prizes for basically a pencil. Comparing $129 for OS X and all its substance to $25 Javascript widget eye candy.

I'd be learning Objective-C Cocoa in a hurry and Core Imaging to write new applications that I can really charge money for and justify the whining.

By the way these ideas aren't "new" inside Apple. They just finally decided to put them in and make them "cooler."

The author of Konfabulator used to work for Apple. Pixar and Schiller are both licensees for Konfabulator (Pixar has a site license). Konfabulator is NOT written in Javascript; the WIDGETS are written in Javascript and XML. That's the fundamental concept that differentiates Konfabulator from earlier desktop tool programs: you can write web application desktop tools. Apple copied that idea (right down to the use of Javascript, from what I heard) and the name of the tools ("Widgets"). They blatantly plagiarized a concept from one of their more successful small third-party developers. Is it illegal? No, it's not; I'm sure they didn't use any source code, and so this is about "work-alike" products. The issue is about developer relations: if you keep annexing the ideas of your best third-party developers, you'll damage the developer's perception of his chances for success in developing for your platform. At this point, I know that I wouldn't try to start a company based on developing an app for Apple;
what's the point? It's hard to be successful with such a small installed user base - to be successful, you need a decent percentage of Apple's base. But if you get enough of a percentage of Apple's base to get noticed by Apple, they'll just copy your idea and put you out of business. Maybe it's worth the risk for a large developer and large projects (where it's more cost-effective for Apple to buy the project from it's originator than to roll its own), but not for the little fry. That's why everyone is so angry about this. Being honored that Apple liked your idea enough to push you out of business doesn't put food on the table.

 

[iChan]

Apple has made a wrong turn here. What were they thinking?


Look at Konfabulators homepage and it says "Cupertino, Start up your photocopiers!"

It looks the same as konfabulator ( we all know by now).

I actually use to use konfab back in 2000, it was cool with the weather check but the clock and everything else was obsesive.

Microsoft Bob is much like dashboard, haha. Apple is becoming a microsoft.

Very hipocritical, they talk about microsoft with longhorn copying os x, well if u think about it, thats the same thing apple is doing with dashboard. I hope apple gets sued or at least steve jobs gets his Head out of his (!) before my stock plumits. I must admit the displays are breath taking though. Apple is very COCKY, almost zepplin like!


owner of imac 15 in.( first addition flat screen) w/ superdrive, 2 powerbook 12", an old imac dv edition, 40 gb ipod and every accessory available!

how is dashboard anything like MS BOB?? MS BOB was a GUI replacement... Dashboard does nothing of the sort and does not get in the way, and can be the ultimate in unobtrusiveness... don't use it!!!

Apple are not becoming MS-like...

you pick out ONE feature that you THINK apple copied from MS and fail to recognise all the features MS took from apple...

but even there you are just plain wrong... i reiterate, Dashboard is NOT an MS Bob clone.

You have EVERY accessory?? wrong again and i know it...

 

[netytan]

well, i see no reason for stickies to go... unless they are going to be permanently embedding into dashboard which is something that i think apple will do...

however, with apps like calculato, they have to keep it for the scientific calulator. but clock?? no...

is there anything that you can do with stickies now that you think cna't be done with stickies under dashboard?

Not really no,

I just like the idea that you can attach a sticky to your desktop and its just there - say when you start up in the morning; they just seem to be where they belong! Meaning, you dont have to flip to another desktop/dashboard layer to see what your notes say. A note should be visable or whats the point in making it, right?

Maybe they could have both, the standard Stickies app and a widget that you can extend if you want, then everyone would be happy. After looking at the screenshots of the dashboard *shuders* and reading everything i could find about it im just not convinced its something im going to bother with every day, but Stickies are a way of life 😉. In comparison anyway.

I'd actually be happy if Apple gave you the option to turn the thing off 😀. But I am glad they definatly arnt moving the calculator. If you ask me that thing rocks!

If any of this sounds silly please bare with me, i only just switched 😉. Thanks for the reply,

Mark.

 

[30jan-1972]

... Is it illegal? No, it's not; I'm sure they didn't use any source code, and so this is about "work-alike" products. The issue is about developer relations: if you keep annexing the ideas of your best third-party developers, you'll damage the developer's perception of his chances for success in developing for your platform. At this point, I know that I wouldn't try to start a company based on developing an app for Apple;
what's the point? It's hard to be successful with such a small installed user base - to be successful, you need a decent percentage of Apple's base. But if you get enough of a percentage of Apple's base to get noticed by Apple, they'll just copy your idea and put you out of business. Maybe it's worth the risk for a large developer and large projects (where it's more cost-effective for Apple to buy the project from it's originator than to roll its own), but not for the little fry. That's why everyone is so angry about this. Being honored that Apple liked your idea enough to push you out of business doesn't put food on the table.

[begin sarcasm]Good thing nobody told Alias about this Konfab-Dashboard stuff. They might be nervous about releasgin Maya Unlimited on the Mac.[end sarcasm]

Konfab is not the best of what's out there - far from it. Write real software... eat cake. Write little things that are logical OS parts/extensions and could be written by any ITT grad... eat ramen.

30 Jan. 1972

 

[MorganX]

Konfab is not the best of what's out there - far from it. Write real software... eat cake. Write little things that are logical OS parts/extensions and could be written by any ITT grad... eat ramen.

30 Jan. 1972

Like transparent windows that fade over time due to inactivity. Pfft.

 

[stukick]

Gee whiz...another $129 for so little innovation. 🙁

 

[Jookbox]

i don't know how to describe it, but those movies were cool and retarded at the same time. i can't believe that much thought is being put into a fake post-it note.

 

[Sabbath]

I really don't like the look of the dashboard widgets, it just doesn't feel inline with the rest of the OS. The eye candy effects however I love 🙄 hehe.

I do like the way these disappear however, I hate desktop clutter, I get rid of everything but mounted removeable drive on my desktop and Konfabulator widgets just feel like clutter to me. Just my perspective however and I do feel bad for the Konfabulator guys, Apple even had to call them widgets!

 

[iChan]

I meant Longhorn's dynamic folders, in terms of Spotlight being similar to Longhorn.
Longhorn has music, document, image, video and game folders, that have all the relative content stored in them, no matter where the actual files are in the folder-structure.

Spotlight's searching, and smart folders are very similar to Longhorn's system. I know that iTunes had those features first, but that was music only. The branching into the file-structure was done by Longhorn first.

Also, Apple is even ripping off Looking Glass in a way. They are running out of ideas. We know they can do better, rather than just ripping off other's ideas.

And, about Dashboard ripping off Konfabulator:
Konfabulator was not the first of it's kind to do what it did, but it was different, with well-implemented tranparencies, customization, etc... And now Apple has introduced a system that is VERY similar to Konfabulator.

Jalexster... Longhorn was not the first company to state that they wanted to use a Meta data search engine in their OS... I don't know who were first, however, I do know that BeOS had a Meta data file system...

this sort of search has long been seen as a holy-grail of sorts for our incresing amounts of data file and folders.. so to say apple are copying MS is wrong, and even if apple were copying MS, it would still be wrong to state that MS came up with the idea or the tech or the implemention.

Now, what is wrong with what apple has done with their stickies?? allowing them to have the preferences on the back of it??? I don't see how that is a sign that apple is running out of ideas...

it is a good idea that apple implemented and that is the bottom line.

 

[rastap]

I don`t mind a little competition for Konfabulator, but does seriously anybody think any of the Dashboard widgets do look better than this? If yes, you need a little lesson in taste!

 

[XForge]

No offense meant to anyone who has use for such things, but I need all that chazerai floating around my desktop like I need another pair of legs growing out of my hips.

 

[mrsebastian]

konfab is a pretty cool, but very limited... it's eye candy and so is dashboard. i'm not a programmer [i just play one on the internet], but it seems to me that most widgets are either calendars, clocks, css news display, and itunes remotes. sure there are a few useful things and the only one i actually use is the cpu temperature display, but the current widgets are extremely limited. i like the idea of apple using dashboard as a vehicle for lots of little apps like stickies, which in its current form, is less than useful. if anything, it will keep "widget" apps nicely organized. nice to see apple taking a good idea and turning it into something more... all that said apple still needs to pay some respect, otherwise known as financial compensation, to konfab as apple has blatantly stolen this idea and is touting it as their own.

 

[365]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but for all those moaning about the look of the dashboard modules, Steve Jobs did say that they would be working on this between now and launch and that he wanted the developer community to start working on some knock out modules.

This is beta software, I'll admit that it's arguably fugly beta software but I think we should reserve judgement.

 

[mrkstu]

Why konfab and watson got superceded...

Whenever you do two things at once, Apple is likely to take the ground out from under you:

1: Write an interesting extension to the OS

2: Create an API for it

Something like the Haxie extensions are almost *pure* API and not so vulnerable.

Watson was a direct extension of an Apple concept and Konfab is an extension of the Desk Accessory/Applet concept- and they both provided API's. Apple is the OS provider- they want to provide/control the ecosystem that their developers write to- that means controlling the API.

I don't blame them for wanting the control either- its an essential component to delivering a high quality end user experience. By the time you see Tiger actually rolling out, I think you'll also see the GUI's on the example applets conform much closer to the standard Apple GUI.

 

[rastap]

Its very useful for me because otherwise I always would have to wait one minit until stupid iCal decides to open a window when a beautiful women is asking me out for dinner (for example 😉 ).