Details Emerge Regarding 'Face ID' Setup Process on iPhone X

[itguy06]

I really hope TouchID isn't missing completely. There's no way this is better, nor does it look like it can be faster what so ever. Plus, it seems like more of a battery drain having to "run" the camera to check.

I've got Windows Hello facial recognition on my HP and it does work very well but there are numerous occasions it doesn't work. Like if you have a strong backlight like, say a window behind you. Or outdoors. It's also slower than a fingerprint reader. Good for a laptop or even a desktop but garbage for a phone.

Methinks Apple is grasping at straws if this is true.

 

[DakotaGuy]

People can open your phone with Touch ID while you're sleeping.

I'm guessing that Face ID will be much more sophisticated than that. It will likely be sensitive enough to know when it's being turned at a verified face and then away, back at the person who's using it which will red flag it as being used by someone other than the authorized user. This way, someone can't just point it at the owner to unlock and run off with the phone.

Man that's going to be a pain when you want to show someone else something on your phone.

 

[Mark Booth]

Now that Apple has records of everyone's fingerprints, now it's time to capture everyone's face. The NSA must be loving this.

Mark

 

[Macaholic868]

I really hope TouchID isn't missing completely. There's no way this is better, nor does it look like it can be faster what so ever. Plus, it seems like more of a battery drain having to "run" the camera to check.

Agreed. We’ll see how it works in the real world but I can’t imagine it’ll be better than Touch ID. I’m also not sure I’ll like the home button being replaced with a gesture but I guess we’ll see once it ships and people get their hands on it.

I’m normally a sucker when it comes to Apple products but I’m holding out on buying a new Mac until a modular Mac Pro comes out (and if it hasn’t by the end of next year I’m buying a Windows 10 system) and there’s no way I’m spending near or over $1,000 on a phone unless it truly is a revolutionary device and so far the iPhone 8 doesn’t quite appear to fit the bill.

What concerns me is that Apple is loathe to admit mistakes. The did it with Maps because it was so bad they had no choice and they finally did it with the Mac Pro but my fear is that because they couldn’t get Touch ID working with an edge to edge glass display in time for the iPhone 8 and are now touting Face ID instead that they will no longer pursue Touch ID on an edge to edge glass display because that would be tantamount to admitting they didn’t get it right on the iPhone 8.

 

[matthew23]

Is it me or do the graphics involved remind me of early nintendo...pretty ugly

 

[Crzyrio]

So with Touch ID you just put your phone on the payment reader and use your finger. Now will I have to lean my face on the card reader

You know exactly how it all works?

Your either a genius or work for Apple.


/s

 

[DakotaGuy]

Agreed. We’ll see how it works in the real world but I can’t imagine it’ll be better than Touch ID. I’m also not sure I’ll like the home button being replaced with a gesture but I guess we’ll see once it ships and people get their hands on it.

I’m normally a sucker when it comes to Apple products but I’m holding out on buying a new Mac until a modular Mac Pro comes out (and if it hasn’t by the end of next year I’m buying a Windows 10 system) and there’s no way I’m spending near or over $1,000 on a phone unless it truly is a revolutionary device and so far the iPhone 8 doesn’t quite appear to fit the bill.

What concerns me is that Apple is loathe to admit mistakes. The did it with Maps because it was so bad they had no choice and they finally did it with the Mac Pro but my fear is that because they couldn’t get Touch ID working with an edge to edge glass display in time for the iPhone 8 and are now touting Face ID instead that they will no longer pursue Touch ID on an edge to edge glass display because that would be tantamount to admitting they didn’t get it right on the iPhone 8.

I'm guessing you'll never see under the screen Touch ID from Apple and Touch ID will be phased out when the legacy designs are finally EOL. Apple never puts things back once they are removed. Even if this Face ID isn't as convenient or works as well as the Touch ID I expect all Apple diehards to embrace it fully. Soon on the forums we will hear how Touch ID is junk and if Samsung introduces an on screen fingerprint reader next year it will be the worse thing ever. You just know Samsung will do it if Apple can't or doesn't. I've been around here long enough to know how it works.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

By pushing the sleep/wake button five times your phone will "pretend" it needs your passcode just like when you haven't entered it for a couple of days. There was a post on this here some weeks ago.

Are you going to reach in your pocket while being stopped by the police? Depending on who you are and where that could result in a very bad situation.

 

[springsup]

This is catastrophic for Apple. They were supposed to have their biggest release in years, but now we know everything and the skepticism around FaceID is only growing.

The leak isn't entirely to blame for that: The iPhone X just looks like a weak product. But the leak makes it worse, because Apple's marketing team now doesn't even get to control how we are introduced to it.

 

[Jamers99]

So when exactly did extreme "Bed-Head" become a hair style?

 

[honglong1976]

Love the Touch ID NOT the FACE. People can open It while sleeping... well I guess you can still steam my finger while sleeping though. Fxxx still don't like it

TouchID can be unlocked while your sleeping also!

 

[citysnaps]

This is catastrophic for Apple. They were supposed to have their biggest release in years, but now we know everything and the skepticism around FaceID is only growing.

The leak isn't entirely to blame for that: The iPhone X just looks like a weak product. But the leak makes it worse, because Apple's marketing team now doesn't even get to control how we are introduced to it.

No skepticism here. Understanding how the tech works I'm certain it will work extremely well. Looking forward to Tuesday. It will be one of Apple's best releases.

 

[CE3]

How am I supposed to use this iPhone X on Halloween when I am Trick or Treating?

Don’t worry, you probably won’t have it by Halloween anyway

 

[kazmac]

Whenever I get an iPhone that has this, it's going to be a rather interesting time setting up Face ID. The face ID outline vaguely reminds me of the Finder smiley on Mac OS.

I wonder what Apple will do now since this was leaked. Carry on as if nothing happened or change their presentation? And what happens to this developer who unveiled it?

 

[springsup]

No skepticism here. Understanding how the tech works I'm certain it will work extremely well. Looking forward to Tuesday. It will be one of Apple's best releases.

Oh, I'm not saying people are doubting that it can work. Microsoft is doing it already in Windows.

The skepticism seems to be around whether or not it's a good idea. It appears that people are more comfortable with authentication being a separate and deliberate action, rather than something passive.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Are you going to reach in your pocket while being stopped by the police? Depending on who you are and where that could result in a very bad situation.

Law enforcement will really like this feature and I expect some to abuse it. Once you're cuffed just hold it up to your face. With that said, I generally avoid doing things that would get me arrested, but this is generally less secure then needing your fingerprint. Even if they had to add a secondary Touch ID system on the rear as an interim solution they should have done it. At least then like with the Samsung you'd have multiple options. However having this Face ID sensor along with a Touch ID sensor would have impacted profit margin.

 

[AsherN]

Guys, remember the faceid can be set to scan every second or every 5 second that is still you,and when you are sleeping your eyes are closed. A touchid is way easier since they need 1 contact and you can play with that phone until the battery is gone, but with a faceid that scans you every 5 seconds otherwise it will lock the phone? What you do?

So, I can't unlock my phone and pass it to my wife to use?

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Don't do things that would lead you to being under arrest by the police. Or, purchase a Samsung phone if you anticipate that happening a lot.

This is a very shortsighted comment. This phone will be used by people all over the world, not every country has the same civil liberty protections that the USA has. Even with our protections it was becoming a trend in policing prior to the default implementation of mobile device passcodes to use products such as those made by CelleBrite to extract the full contents of phones during routine stops. This was an extension from ruling that officers were able to look at the contents of a phone during a stop. Combine that with more recent rulings that biometrics are not protected by the fifth amendment and we could easily end up in a situation where the entire contents of your phone (which are quickly becoming the entire contents of your life) would be fair game in simple stops. As someone who is not a criminal but does have respect for the forth amendment that bothers me. I have yet to meet anyone who has never broken any law (do you have any idea how many laws we have, and how many contradict each other?) How would you feel if police start scanning your phone's GPS data to retroactively issue you speeding tickets? The forth amendment is there to shield us from unreasonable searches and "fishing expeditions" but if we continue to chip away at it the protections will erode and the possibility of abuse rises. Then of course there are thieves who could unlock your phone quickly and easily while robbing you making it much more valuable on the black market or jealous partners who may want to access your private conversations while you are asleep, the list goes on.

Sure, maybe you are that one saint on earth who has never done anything wrong or embarrassing in their life and would be completely fine with the concept of government/law-enforcement/thieves/jealous-partners/anyone-else having simple access to your mobile device but that doesn't mean you can be dismissive of the majority who may not.

On a slightly related note, there is a case going to SCOTUS that will test whether an individual has the right to refuse to provide a passcode under the fifth amendment. The individual has been held for two years now in contempt of court for refusing to provide the encryption key to a hard drive. It will be interesting to see whether this challenge holds.

 

[citysnaps]

Law enforcement will really like this feature and I expect some to abuse it. Once you're cuffed just hold it up to your face. With that said, I generally avoid doing things that would get me arrested, but this is generally less secure then needing your fingerprint. Even if they had to add a secondary Touch ID system on the rear as an interim solution they should have done it. At least then like with the Samsung you'd have multiple options. However having this Face ID sensor along with a Touch ID sensor would have impacted profit margin.

Except that after an arrest, if the police believe your phone contains evidence supporting the crime you are being accused of, a search warrant application articulating probable cause would first need to be presented to a judge, reviewed, and then signed should the judge agree. At that point I have no problem with law enforcement examining the phone for evidence pertaining to the crime the arrestee is accused of.

 

[Macalway]

At least this face scan methods will be fun. Just some crazy new thing to play with.

Sign me up

 

[citysnaps]

This is a very shortsighted comment. This phone will be used by people all over the world, not every country has the same civil liberty protections that the USA has. Even with our protections it was becoming a trend in policing prior to the default implementation of mobile device passcodes to use products such as those made by CelleBrite to extract the full contents of phones during routine stops. This was an extension from ruling that officers were able to look at the contents of a phone during a stop. Combine that with more recent rulings that biometrics are not protected by the fifth amendment and we could easily end up in a situation where the entire contents of your phone (which are quickly becoming the entire contents of your life) would be fair game in simple stops. As someone who is not a criminal but does have respect for the forth amendment that bothers me. I have yet to meet anyone who has never broken any law (do you have any idea how many laws we have, and how many contradict each other?) How would you feel if police start scanning your phone's GPS data to retroactively issue you speeding tickets? The forth amendment is there to shield us from unreasonable searches and "fishing expeditions" but if we continue to chip away at it the protections will erode and the possibility of abuse rises. Then of course there are thieves who could unlock your phone quickly and easily while robbing you making it much more valuable on the black market or jealous partners who may want to access your private conversations while you are asleep, the list goes on.

Sure, maybe you are that one saint on earth who has never done anything wrong or embarrassing in their life and would be completely fine with the concept of government/law-enforcement/thieves/jealous-partners/anyone-else having simple access to your mobile device but that doesn't mean you can be dismissive of the majority who may not.

On a slightly related note, there is a case going to SCOTUS that will test whether an individual has the right to refuse to provide a passcode under the fifth amendment. The individual has been held for two years now in contempt of court for refusing to provide the encryption key to a hard drive. It will be interesting to see whether this challenge holds.

See post #320, above. In the US, outside of a very narrow set of situations, a search warrant is required to examine the contents of your phone, if you should be detained or arrested.

Outside of that, if you reside in a country where those protections are not afforded, and, if you find it necessary to prevent law enforcement from discovering evidence contained in your phone that points to your criminal activity, it would be best to purchase a different phone. There are many options available.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

See post #320, above. Outside of a very narrow set of situations, search warrant is required to examine the contents of one's phone, whether one is detained or arrested.

Outside of that, if one resides in a country where those protections are not afforded, and, if you find it necessary to prevent law enforcement from discovering evidence that points to criminal activity, it would be best to purchase a different phone. There are many options available.

There are exemptions if they feel information may be lost or destroyed and the guidelines for defining the scope of the warrant are loose enough to drive a bus through.

 

[citysnaps]

There are exemptions if they feel information may be lost or destroyed and the guidelines for defining the scope of the warrant are loose enough to drive a bus through.

Not true. A phone may be examined without a warrant if there are extreme exigent circumstances (a person's life is in imminent danger, an imminent terrorist attack, etc), or, if you consent to the search. Also, a search warrant application requires specifics concerning the evidence sought. Fishing expeditions are not allowed. Unless of course law enforcement is ok with gathered information being tossed out as evidence at trial.

 

[thedommer2000]

iPhone X is looking more and more like a prototype to celebrate this big anniversary. While cutting edge, its is not fully realized and represents a view into the future of the iPhone for rich people.

Touch ID is not going away. By calling it iPhone X they are giving themselves an out so next year we can have the lineup as "iPhone 8 (low end), iPhone 9 and iPhone 9+. both iPhone 9 and 9+ will have pretty much all features from iPhone X AND Touch ID under the display. For certain things you can do fingerprint and face recognition for extra security.

Edit: Ill be getting the 8 not the X.

 

[kdarling]

Now that Apple has records of everyone's fingerprints, now it's time to capture everyone's face. The NSA must be loving this.

Hopefully you're joking. If instead you're actually unaware of how things work, then:

Your fingerprint itself is not sent off the phone, nor is it available to user apps to do so.

The encrypted sensor info is transferred to the inaccessible Secure Enclave portion of the CPU, which does the template creation / matching. All that a user app or Apple Pay knows, is whether user authentication succeeded or not. They see no sensor info.

No doubt facial sensor info will be handled the same way.