Details Emerge Regarding 'Face ID' Setup Process on iPhone X

[amirite]

I reach into my pocket and unlock my phone before it ever gets to my face. This is a step backward.

So you use it before you can see it?
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Im also wondering how close to the camera the face needs to be. I know it's been reported it will recognize the face while laying flat, but here are many times when paying with ApplePay, that the phone is no where near my face.

If you can see the front of the phone it will probably work

 

[Damon2]

If using Face ID for payment, how do you prevent accidental payment? With touch ID, as long as your thumb isn't on the home button, the payment won't go through.

Double Click power button to confirm you want to make a payment
"And it appears that Face ID occurs automatically but you double click the side button to confirm payment" https://twitter.com/Jeffrey903/status/906889831669813248

 

[ct2k7]

Man that's going to be a pain when you want to show someone else something on your phone.

Double Click power button to confirm you want to make a payment
"And it appears that Face ID occurs automatically but you double click the side button to confirm payment" https://twitter.com/Jeffrey903/status/906889831669813248

Isn’t it quicker to double click the home button right now as you’re getting your phone out of your pocket?

 

[groovyd]

Would be cool if future Macbooks will also contain this camera sensor setup for auto-login and apple pay etc. Really cool if they ever release another monitor and that has it as well in place of the webcam.

 

[zeesix]

People thought horses were perfect, in their day, and automobiles were fads.

The thing is, they weren't (and aren't), and the same is true for Touch ID. Sure, you like it, you trust it, it works well for your needs. You have trouble imagining better. No problem. You'll wait and see. Most likely, you were not enthusiastic about Touch ID when it was announced, either. The proof, as they say, was in the pudding.

I'd put Facial ID into a different class than bezel-less designs. The bezel-thing is driven by the notion that the phone doesn't have to be larger than the screen dimensions - either the screen can grow to match the dimensions of the phone, or the phone can shrink to match the dimensions of the display. Not such a big deal in the big scheme of things.

3D Facial ID, on the other hand, is driven by a variety of technologies that go beyond mere identification. The technology used to judge a face from various angles is the same needed for AR - to sense the position of the camera/display in relation to a 3D world. Facial ID is just the tip of the AR iceberg. AR is not just about game play, or superimposing animated characters on a screen (those may be judged to be somewhat faddish). It's also about measuring and interpreting a 3D world, rather than artificially flattening it to distorted 2D. It'll include using hand gestures to control the computer, rather than a physical mouse or trackpad. It includes photographing a room or object and immediately converting it to an accurate floor plan or engineering drawing. There's a lot of potential here.

The fundamentals of biometric ID are little different, whether we're talking about fingerprints, facial recognition, iris scan, or handwriting analysis. In all cases, the system is reading specific, identifiable points that have a geometric relationship to other points - it's a relatively abstract map, not a fully-representational photograph. On a fingerprint, iris, or signature, those points are measured in two dimensions. 3D facial recognition adds another dimension, making it potentially far more accurate. In all cases, the baseline scans taken during setup collect far more data points than are needed to positively identify the individual during a routine ID scan. If someone happens to be wearing glasses during baseline scan, there will still be plenty of useful data points available if the person is later scanned without glasses.

The superiority of one biometric method over another is not a matter of fundamentals, but of the quality of execution. Any given implementation of biometric scanning may suck, or it may be brilliant. If you think Apple's implementation of Touch ID is brilliant, is there a reason to believe its implementation of 3D Facial ID would necessarily suck?

I’m not against adding something like FaceID I’m against it completely replacing TouchID. I was always for TouchID, and if I wasn’t I didn’t have to use it.

How could FaceID possibly work when wearing a helmet and goggles that’s hiding any kind of unique biometric data.
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So you use it before you can see it?
[doublepost=1505078118][/doublepost]
If you can see the front of the phone it will probably work

That’s the beauty of physical buttons... you can do some things without looking at it.

 

[finchwizard]

If it works great, and they're going to move forward with this tech as the replacement, fine.

But they've just offloaded all their left over chips into their Macbook Pros, and I can guess that Face ID won't work with the webcams they've been shoving in them so it's a pain to not be consistent.

And it would be 10x worse for Apple to not be able to get TouchID working, and then on the next phone bring it back and oh we able to get it under the screen now.

That's even more of a slap in the face I think.

 

[Slix]

I've only read about half the posts so far in this thread, but I'm really wondering - How will this supposed "Face ID" affect battery life? Especially if it's checking the face every 5 seconds, it can't be good for battery life for the phone.

I really hope this is all some elaborate "fake leak" from Apple, honestly.

 

[craznar]

Gosh this leak is massive. And I'll lament the loss of Touch ID.

There are so many situations where Face ID will fail for me ... I mean I wear glasses, headsets, CPAP machine at various times ... how the hell is FaceID going to function in day to day operations for so many people with so many varied situations.

Keeping my iPhone 7+ this year... see if they get TouchID Back under the screen by iPhone 9.

 

[kdarling]

I've only read about half the posts so far in this thread, but I'm really wondering - How will this supposed "Face ID" affect battery life? Especially if it's checking the face every 5 seconds, it can't be good for battery life for the phone.

Good question.

I've been watching their patents for years. Apple has spent some effort on coming up with low power scanning for nearby faces.

If implemented, low power no-detail sensors would check for orange face shaped blobs (apparently humans are shades of orange), motion, possibly distance.

Once the low power sensors detect a likely nearby face, they can wake up the higher power sensors to do the actual recognition.

 

[diamond.g]

FaceID is going to be AT LEAST on the same level as Windows Hello. Indeed, analysts are suggesting that Apple's implementation of the technology is much more advanced.

Windows Hello is damn fast (faster than Touch ID), works in the dark, has not been breaked so far, distinguish between identical twins, doesn't care if you wear hats, glasses or if you change hair and beard style.

So why are people still asking the same stupid questions?? The technology is already here, commercialy available and proven to be working, even not considering the likely Apples's improvements!

I am glad you mentioned Windows Hello. I hear that it is pretty awesome.

 

[jamesrick80]

People thought horses were perfect, in their day, and automobiles were fads.

The thing is, they weren't (and aren't), and the same is true for Touch ID. Sure, you like it, you trust it, it works well for your needs. You have trouble imagining better. No problem. You'll wait and see. Most likely, you were not enthusiastic about Touch ID when it was announced, either. The proof, as they say, was in the pudding.

I'd put Facial ID into a different class than bezel-less designs. The bezel-thing is driven by the notion that the phone doesn't have to be larger than the screen dimensions - either the screen can grow to match the dimensions of the phone, or the phone can shrink to match the dimensions of the display. Not such a big deal in the big scheme of things.

3D Facial ID, on the other hand, is driven by a variety of technologies that go beyond mere identification. The technology used to judge a face from various angles is the same needed for AR - to sense the position of the camera/display in relation to a 3D world. Facial ID is just the tip of the AR iceberg. AR is not just about game play, or superimposing animated characters on a screen (those may be judged to be somewhat faddish). It's also about measuring and interpreting a 3D world, rather than artificially flattening it to distorted 2D. It'll include using hand gestures to control the computer, rather than a physical mouse or trackpad. It includes photographing a room or object and immediately converting it to an accurate floor plan or engineering drawing. There's a lot of potential here.

The fundamentals of biometric ID are little different, whether we're talking about fingerprints, facial recognition, iris scan, or handwriting analysis. In all cases, the system is reading specific, identifiable points that have a geometric relationship to other points - it's a relatively abstract map, not a fully-representational photograph. On a fingerprint, iris, or signature, those points are measured in two dimensions. 3D facial recognition adds another dimension, making it potentially far more accurate. In all cases, the baseline scans taken during setup collect far more data points than are needed to positively identify the individual during a routine ID scan. If someone happens to be wearing glasses during baseline scan, there will still be plenty of useful data points available if the person is later scanned without glasses.

The superiority of one biometric method over another is not a matter of fundamentals, but of the quality of execution. Any given implementation of biometric scanning may suck, or it may be brilliant. If you think Apple's implementation of Touch ID is brilliant, is there a reason to believe its implementation of 3D Facial ID would necessarily suck?

I see the term papers are starting. Tuesday please come and go or we will continue to see this mess.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

The face ID outline vaguely reminds me of the Finder smiley on Mac OS.

It is. It's not even from the current macOS Finder icon, but the old original classic Macintosh icon from way back in the original Macintosh days. This one (see below).

Not really, he's still a Happy Mac.

 

[jimbobb24]

No TouchID no sale. Step backward to have full screen. Looks over utility. Even Samsung put it on the back. 7s it is.

 

[JesterJJZ]

Do not want.

 

[Packers1958]

So if I'm in bed or outside at night, and I need to check something on the phone, I will first need to turn a light on so the phone can see my face? What an absolute fail. Samsung is going to have a field day poking fun of Apple and showing bumbling users trying to unlock their phone at night. What a joke.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

I’m not against adding something like FaceID I’m against it completely replacing TouchID. I was always for TouchID, and if I wasn’t I didn’t have to use it.

How could FaceID possibly work when wearing a helmet and goggles that’s hiding any kind of unique biometric data.
[doublepost=1505087090][/doublepost]
That’s the beauty of physical buttons... you can do some things without looking at it.

Helmets and goggles often go hand-in-glove with gloves. Besides, operating a cell phone on a motorcycle, or running a black diamond ski slope???

If you want to play the "Find an Exception Game," you'll always come up with something. Some make sense, some are downright silly. "What about someone wearing a welding mask?" (And welders also wear gloves.) Scuba divers and snorkelers ("OMG, the phones are now water resistant, but we can't use Facial ID!!!"). Bank robbers ('Perpetrators apprehended when they stopped to key in their passcodes.')

Features like Facial ID are a convenience, not a necessity. When they're useful, great. The more circumstances during which they're useful, the better. Those circumstances will vary from user to user.

I absolutely love Touch ID, but it doesn't work well when I'm cooking - my fingers are often messy or damp. So if I need to unlock my iPad or iPhone to display a recipe... it's not always there for me. For that particular use case, Facial ID would work better. Meantime, the last time I wore goggles was when snorkeling and the last I wore a face mask was when shoveling snow in blizzard conditions (I was wearing gloves, too). Helmet? Bicycling, whitewater boating, and taking a shot at a rock climbing wall. Not that those helmets would have interfered with facial ID.

And the whole "use it when not looking" thing? Sure, I may start Touch ID while pulling my iPhone out of my pocket, but I can't think of any circumstances where I operate the thing "blind." I have multiple credit cards in Apple Pay, so I need visual confirmation of which card will be used, prior to paying. There's also no auditory or tactile feedback when the thing unlocks. So, is it unlocked, or not? It comes down to a "quick draw" competition - "Do you start pulling the trigger before the gun is out of the holster, or do you wait until it's pointed in the right direction?"

 

[Feenician]

So if I'm in bed or outside at night, and I need to check something on the phone, I will first need to turn a light on so the phone can see my face? What an absolute fail. Samsung is going to have a field day poking fun of Apple and showing bumbling users trying to unlock their phone at night. What a joke.

Try reading a bit first. This has been addressed at least 100 times in the past few days alone. It’s not using visible light, but infra-red projected by the phone.

 

[jsmith189]

How about we all just wait and see how it works and what they've done with it before we make sweeping statements. I remember everyone was skeptical about TouchID when it was announced, now look.

So if I'm in bed or outside at night, and I need to check something on the phone, I will first need to turn a light on so the phone can see my face? What an absolute fail. Samsung is going to have a field day poking fun of Apple and showing bumbling users trying to unlock their phone at night. What a joke.

This is a non-issue, so if they do they're going to look foolish. You'll be able to unlock your phone in the dark.

 

[Packers1958]

Try reading a bit first. This has been addressed at least 100 times in the past few days alone. It’s not using visible light, but infra-red projected by the phone.

Helmets and goggles often go hand-in-glove with gloves. Besides, operating a cell phone on a motorcycle, or running a black diamond ski slope???

If you want to play the "Find an Exception Game," you'll always come up with something. Some make sense, some are downright silly. "What about someone wearing a welding mask?" (And welders also wear gloves.) Scuba divers and snorkelers ("OMG, the phones are now water resistant, but we can't use Facial ID!!!"). Bank robbers ('Perpetrators apprehended when they stopped to key in their passcodes.')

Features like Facial ID are a convenience, not a necessity. When they're useful, great. The more circumstances during which they're useful, the better. Those circumstances will vary from user to user.

I absolutely love Touch ID, but it doesn't work well when I'm cooking - my fingers are often messy or damp. So if I need to unlock my iPad or iPhone to display a recipe... it's not always there for me. For that particular use case, Facial ID would work better. Meantime, the last time I wore goggles was when snorkeling and the last I wore a face mask was when shoveling snow in blizzard conditions (I was wearing gloves, too). Helmet? Bicycling, whitewater boating, and taking a shot at a rock climbing wall. Not that those helmets would have interfered with facial ID.

And the whole "use it when not looking" thing? Sure, I may start Touch ID while pulling my iPhone out of my pocket, but I can't think of any circumstances where I operate the thing "blind." I have multiple credit cards in Apple Pay, so I need visual confirmation of which card will be used, prior to paying. There's also no auditory or tactile feedback when the thing unlocks. So, is it unlocked, or not? It comes down to a "quick draw" competition - "Do you start pulling the trigger before the gun is out of the holster, or do you wait until it's pointed in the right direction?"

Ok, what about being outdoors on the beach and wearing sunglasses? I will need to take the sunglasses off every time I use the phone? Or will I have to redo facial recognition every time I wear different eyewear?

 

[Val-kyrie]

I think you meant to write:
Smart citizens and paranoid criminals should stick with the iPhone SE.

Smart criminals and paranoid citizens should stick with the iPhone SE

 

[Feenician]

Ok, what about being outdoors on the beach and wearing sunglasses? I will need to take the sunglasses off every time I use the phone? Or will I have to redo facial recognition every time I wear different eyewear?

Dude. Use the search feature of the forum or perhaps just some common sense. The technology is already in use for Windows Hello. Yes, it works with glasses. Why do people assume they’ve thought of a fatal flaw a company with a $700 billion market cap, working for years on a feature hasn’t? It’s truly bizarre.

It will no doubt use infrared cameras. Windows Hello works in complete darkness and with sunglasses on. I don't think skin complexion makes any difference.

I just tried windows hello with sunglasses, which uses IR camera too and suprise surprise... it recognized me, without me teaching it to.

 

[citysnaps]

So if I'm in bed or outside at night, and I need to check something on the phone, I will first need to turn a light on so the phone can see my face? What an absolute fail. Samsung is going to have a field day poking fun of Apple and showing bumbling users trying to unlock their phone at night. What a joke.

Except that's not how it works.

 

[Packers1958]

Apple will try and sell us this half baked idea because they could not build touch id into the screen, and then come next year after they do solve the problem, they will all of a sudden tell us how great the iPhone 9 is because it can do both facial and fingerprint. And everyone will praise Apple and use touch id as their main way to unlock the phone again.

 

[Feenician]

Apple will try and sell us this half baked idea because they could not build touch id into the screen, and then come next year after they do solve the problem, they will all of a sudden tell us how great the iPhone 9 is because it can do both facial and fingerprint. And everyone will praise Apple and use touch id as their main way to unlock the phone again.

*comes up with a bunch of half-baked incorrect reasons why this won’t work*
*these are refuted*
*BLAH BLAH HALF BAKED*

Don’t buy it if you don’t believe it but why bore everyone else to tears with your made up theories that have already been posted a hundred times. What is the point?

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Ok, what about being outdoors on the beach and wearing sunglasses? I will need to take the sunglasses off every time I use the phone? Or will I have to redo facial recognition every time I wear different eyewear?

Nope, not very likely at all. This is not retinal scanning. The scan will be measuring multiple points on many different parts on your face (nose, chin, lips, cheekbones, jawline, forehead, ears... eyebrows are often at least partially visible above sunglasses...). The areas obscured by eyeglasses of any kind are not essential to recognition. They may obscure 15-25% of the face, the other 75-85% is plenty. This isn't speculation; there are existing facial recognition systems that do just fine under the very conditions you're worried about.

But there's no reason you can't wait and see for yourself. No need to buy it sight unseen. There's a very strong likelihood that Apple will have TV ads showing a celebrity using Facial ID - while traveling incognito with dark glasses, while wearing a wig and heavy stage makeup, during a "table read" of the script while wearing half-moon reading glasses, emerging from a pool wearing swim goggles... Maybe they'll hire the tennis-playing identical twins, Mike and Bob Bryan to do this (proving that Mike's face won't unlock Bob's iPhone, while Mike and Bob's Mom mistakenly calls Mike "Bob.")