'Deus Ex: The Fall' Prevents Players With Jailbroken iOS Devices From Firing Guns

[danielowenuk]

I am not going to claim to be whiter than white. Have I pirated things in my life? yes. My iPhone and iPad are both jailbroken, when i first purchased my ipad, I pirated everything, over time I decided I didn't like certain apps and did like certain others.

Those that I like I have purchased, those that were no good I deleted.

Sort of a natural selection of piracy.

Unless it specifically states, "does not work with Jailbroken devices" I would be getting my money back.

 

[tevion5]

You know 75% of all statistics are made up right... where did you pull the 90%+ from, or do I not wanna know?

Indeed I can not backup these statistics and should perhaps have phrased my argument in a more respectable fashion.

However, these are educated guesses that are almost certainly true. Less than 0.01% of people have used a car as a getaway vehicle in a crime? Absolutely, this is obvious fact. That would be less than 700000 people. If there were that many, they'd be racing around every street every few minutes...

More than 90% of jailbreakers pirate? I can't prove it of course but absolutely every jailbreaker I have ever met (being 100%) has done so, therefore this is quite a sensible assumption. It is not unreasonable and almost certainly true.

I'm not say all jailbreakers pirate, but the vast majority do, and to say otherwise is misleading.

 

[HurryKayne]

Ok Thanks.I have no jailbreak device but i won't buy it,
Just saved 7$ ...

 

[Taipan]

No, but I bet there are a large portion who do.

Would be interesting to know how large. My guess would be well above 90%.

Edit: Sorry, should have read more of the thread before posting. Seems this is being discussed already...

 

[tevion5]

Unless it specifically states, "does not work with Jailbroken devices" I would be getting my money back.

I don't think they'd have to because it's technically outside their specific platform. They made the app for Apple's version of iOS, not modified versions.

It's like complaining that your Windows games won't work now that you've installed Ubuntu on your PC. They were never supposed to.

----------

Would be interesting to know how large. My guess would be well above 90%.

Thank you sir, I'm not alone in common sense!

 

[Taipan]

Thank you sir, I'm not alone in common sense!

It's just like BitTorrent, everybody's just downloading Linux distros...

 

[TWSS37]

In the security section "Unknown Sources" - Allow installation of apps from unknown sources.

You don't need to root to run "off the ranch" software.
Now if said software needs protected resources, then root is required.
Anyway, the people I know that are rooted, did so to get functionality that the handset provider didn't offer.

Full backup of the phone. Now available with ADB.

FWIW - I rooted my Android devices (I've had several Android across multiple vendors, along with several iOS devices - so I try and be impartial) at first, before screencaps were included as native support. Prior to 4.x, root was necessary in order to have that feature. Then it was in order to backup files/load custom ROMs. Come to think, I'm not sure if you need to be rooted in order to unlock? It's one of those things where you (should) only have to do it once. It's not like an experienced Android user who requires root takes a carrier update.

Long and the short of it, rooting on Android just gives access to lower level security system settings. Jailbreaking is replacing the image altogether - a much more invasive and destructive process.

 

[blabliblu]

So instead of buying a legit copy of this game, I'm FORCED to pirate it ?

What a stupid idea.

 

[FirstNTenderbit]

I understand that it's about jailbreakers who paid for the app, but when you jailbreak a device, it becomes an unsupported configuration. If the game doesn't work or the dev puts in something that won't work correctly, that's the risk you took in jailbreaking it.

I didn't say jailbreaking was illegal, but no developer in the App Store has any legal obligation to support jailbroken devices. Again, it's like hacking your X-Box and then getting annoyed because some game doesn't work on it anymore or because some game dev won't let their game run in that config. It's not supported.

I'm bolding part of your response too because Apple has made it 100% clear that jailbroken iOS devices are not supported devices. Therefore, there's no reason for a developer to specify that it's not supported on jailbroken devices. That's a given. It's a risk you take and nobody forced you to do so. I just don't see how the developer is to blame or owes anyone a refund.

We obviously view this issue differently, and that's totally okay. Civil discourse is one of the benefits of free society. Bolded: Here's the thing, the game does work but the dev coded it specifically NOT to work with JB devices. That's the key. This wasn't accidental. It was intentional. That says in no uncertain terms: IF YOU JB WE DON'T WANT YOU. Full stop. Even though we don't want you to play our game, we will take your money. Your device = bad, your money = good. This is where I have a problem. You cannot take a person's money knowing full well that you have no intention of delivering service. That's completely dishonest. If you don't want JBers that fine, but you have to reject their money as well. Make it obvious they're not welcome and I have no issue whatsoever.

Your XBOX example doesn't really relate to this issue. Microsoft will drop the banhammer on you for a modded XBOX. Modding an XBOX directly affects your relationship with the manufacturer. Aside from voiding your warranty, JB doesn't affect your relationship with Apple, and Apple is very upfront about the voided warranty. They don't hide anything. You know exactly what the consequences are with Apple. That's not the case with Edios. My question to any dev that breaks functionality for JB devices AND doesn't let customer know is this: Why is it okay to take my money if you have no intention of providing your service?

 

[pookynubber]

...really?

Indeed I can not backup these statistics and should perhaps have phrased my argument in a more respectable fashion.

However, these are educated guesses that are almost certainly true. Less than 0.01% of people have used a car as a getaway vehicle in a crime? Absolutely, this is obvious fact. That would be less than 700000 people. If there were that many, they'd be racing around every street every few minutes...

More than 90% of jailbreakers pirate? I can't prove it of course but absolutely every jailbreaker I have ever met (being 100%) has done so, therefore this is quite a sensible assumption. It is not unreasonable and almost certainly true.

I'm not say all jailbreakers pirate, but the vast majority do, and to say otherwise is misleading.

Um, you STILL don't really understand statistics. You admitted you couldn't support your first assertion only to double-down and say the same or equally unsupported assertions? Ya know, if you really want to make a strong case - don't make up or say things that make you look this dumb.

 

[aussieinjapan]

Nope. not at all. Sideloading is 100% supported on android. Its literally a checkbox in the settings to enable it. Unlocking the bootloader has nothing to do with root or sideloading. It has to do with being able to flash and boot custom boot images (kernels, recoveries). Root on android has no use in pirating. People root for other things.

Yeap ! Agreed - To get the Amazon android app store, you need to side load the app. Its not available on google play. You must side load it.

It should be stated in the App description that you cant play it on jailbroken devices.

I have jailbreaked years ago just to (and I cant even remember the name of the app) use skype over 3G when it was restricted here in Japan. I have a broken button as well and would like to jailbreak but as the 5S is coming out soon, I cant be bothered to go thru the process.

BUT the point is - I never ever thought about pirating an app !! And I wouldnt like to be treated as a criminal at all.

 

[Deniolan]

The problem isn't necessarily the jailbreak

The problem isn't the jailbreak - it's that Apple has no means in their sandbox to tell whether or not someone has paid for a product.

I'm an Apple Dev, and I have an app where I did something similar to this. The reason? As with most app devs, there are analytics on my apps. Those analytics tell me generic things how many copies of the app are installed.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to compare the number of installed apps to the number of purchased copies. Apple allows you to install a purchased app on up to five devices - so at the very HIGHEST there should be a 5:1 coorelation of installs to purchases. In reality, this is actually just below 2:1 because most people don't have that many iOS devices

One of the apps I released, on the first weekend, had about 100 purchases - it had maybe 5-10 per day over the next week, and then another couple hundred on the next weekend - the trend continued...

By the end of the third weekend - there were over 50,000 copies installed. This is absolutely rediculous. Unfortunately, as a dev - we have no way of telling whether or not the app is actually purchased. A quick google search on my app instantly found it out in the Cydia app store, and a couple other popular "pirate" sites - cracked, and ready to distribute.

The moral of the story - the app was 0.99 - buy it. Don't pirate it. Someone like me (an indie Dev) would have had several thousand dollars to support future dev efforts, instead - we get a couple hundred dollars and a useful app that ends up on pirate sites and we give our time away.

Our options - take measures to prevent usage on jailbroken phones (sure, some people jailbreak for legitimate reasons, but the majority - based on the numbers I have seen, do NOT) - or, just accept that all of your effort will end up free to the masses.

At this point, the only thing I can do is release a good free app, and hope to make some money on ad revenue... But then, the jailbreaking wizards ruin that too by releasing apps that run in the background to block advertisements - so again - I lose. I'm expected to work for free.

That being said - I do not enjoy working for free - would you? There is definately a place for jailbreaking - unfortunately, for someone who takes pride in their products and hopes to release an app that "takes off" and includes monetization (either paid or ad supported) to support their livelihood - I tend to take a dim view of the reality that a "place for jailbreaking" exists in it's current state and given the tools that we are provided for being "legit" developers.

Just my .02 from the peanut gallery.

 

[pookynubber]

The problem isn't the jailbreak - it's that Apple has no means in their sandbox to tell whether or not someone has paid for a product.

I'm an Apple Dev, and I have an app where I did something similar to this. The reason? As with most app devs, there are analytics on my apps. Those analytics tell me generic things how many copies of the app are installed.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to compare the number of installed apps to the number of purchased copies. Apple allows you to install a purchased app on up to five devices - so at the very HIGHEST there should be a 5:1 coorelation of purchases to installs. In reality, this is actually just below 2:1 because most people don't have that many iOS devices

One of the apps I released, on the first weekend, had about 100 purchases - it had maybe 5-10 per day over the next week, and then another couple hundred on the next weekend - the trend continued...

By the end of the third weekend - there were over 50,000 copies installed. This is absolutely rediculous. Unfortunately, as a dev - we have no way of telling whether or not the app is actually purchased. A quick google search on my app instantly found it out in the Cydia app store, and a couple other popular "pirate" sites - cracked, and ready to distribute.

The moral of the story - the app was 0.99 - buy it. Don't pirate it. Someone like me (an indie Dev) would have had several thousand dollars to support future dev efforts, instead - we get a couple hundred dollars and a useful app that ends up on pirate sites and we give our time away.

Our options - take measures to prevent usage on jailbroken phones (sure, some people jailbreak for legitimate reasons, but the majority - based on the numbers I have seen, do NOT) - or, just accept that all of your effort will end up free to the masses.

At this point, the only thing I can do is release a good free app, and hope to make some money on ad revenue... But then, the jailbreaking wizards ruin that too by releasing apps that run in the background to block advertisements - so again - I lose. I'm expected to work for free.

That being said - I do not enjoy working for free - would you? There is definately a place for jailbreaking - unfortunately, for someone who takes pride in their products and hopes to release an app that "takes off" and includes monetization (either paid or ad supported) to support their livelihood - I tend to take a dim view of the reality that a "place for jailbreaking" exists in it's current state and given the tools that we are provided for being "legit" developers.

Just my .02 from the peanut gallery.

i think there is a simple solution though. all apps should be trials for 24-48 hours. i will spend a lot of money on something knowing that i can return it if i need to. with physical products - there's even a cost to it being returned. hardly so on apps. if i want to try something - the only option for most all apps is to try it out via a pirated version. that ain't good.

 

[Deniolan]

i think there is a simple solution though. all apps should be trials for 24-48 hours. i will spend a lot of money on something knowing that i can return it if i need to. with physical products - there's even a cost to it being returned. hardly so on apps. if i want to try something - the only option for most all apps is to try it out via a pirated version. that ain't good.

Agree - that's what I am saying - there needs to be some kind of tool in our toolkit to allow something like this without having to release a crippled secondary version.

The toolkit should also include some kind of API so that the apps that are supposed to be "purchased" can be verified as "purchased"

The problem is - even with these measures, the root OS would simply be hacked, or the ipa would be hacked. There needs to be some freedom here for the developers to control their DRM destiny rather than having it force fed. Without tools, the only option is a block.

 

[Zellio]

I take offense at the people questioning jailbreaking and equating it to piracy.

I have bought hundreds of apps, but I jailbreak anything and everything! Just for the added options! It is what any hobbyist worth the time does!

I'm sure Woz would've also done the same!

 

[jasvncnt]

I don't think they'd have to because it's technically outside their specific platform. They made the app for Apple's version of iOS, not modified versions.

It's like complaining that your Windows games won't work now that you've installed Ubuntu on your PC. They were never supposed to.

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Thank you sir, I'm not alone in common sense!

But the game tells you on the box what platforms are supported. So your comment doesnt really fit here

 

[tevion5]

Um, you STILL don't really understand statistics. You admitted you couldn't support your first assertion only to double-down and say the same or equally unsupported assertions? Ya know, if you really want to make a strong case - don't make up or say things that make you look this dumb.

The stats are approximations based on my personal experience and are therefore my opinion. Not researched fact. However, they are obviously not far off.

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But the game tells you on the box what platforms are supported. So your comment doesnt really fit here

You went to the Apple iOS App Store for your game and you need to be told what platform the game supports?

Expecting it to work on anything but vanilla iOS does not make sense.

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I take offense at the people questioning jailbreaking and equating it to piracy.

Oh of course that is incorrect. I'm just saying that unfortunately the vast majority of Jailbreakers are pirates, not all of them.

----------

Um, you STILL don't really understand statistics. You admitted you couldn't support your first assertion only to double-down and say the same or equally unsupported assertions? Ya know, if you really want to make a strong case - don't make up or say things that make you look this dumb.

The first statistic I can back up easily, just google getaway car crime. I can bet my car you won't find more than 700000 reported cases...

The second one is hard to prove, but common sense would suggest its true.

 

[gotluck]

I don't think they'd have to because it's technically outside their specific platform. They made the app for Apple's version of iOS, not modified versions.

It's like complaining that your Windows games won't work now that you've installed Ubuntu on your PC. They were never supposed to.

Not really though, that's a whole separate OS. You can't really compare iOS to PC because a PC comes with root access. There is no PC jailbreak, it's already jailbroken. I would flip the argument around and claim that since iOS devices are PC's, the customer should be given the choice of having root access and the whole Jailbreak scene would be unnecessary.

 

[kingtj]

Except, well .....

Your reason for jailbreaking strikes me as kind of odd. You *should* have every right to jailbreak your phone or device and not have to worry about artificial software restrictions making programs break because they detected you did it.

But a broken power button is, IMO, a major problem. If my car stereo's power button broke, I'd have to get it fixed or maybe replace the stereo. I wouldn't ever think, 'Gee... maybe I can hack the software in it so I don't need to press that button anymore. Because you know -- it's expensive getting the button fixed!"

And what about people like me who jailbreak only because Apple does a terrible job of supporting their products? Power button breaks, so the only way to do normal tasks like sleep, screen shot, reboot, etc is through jailbreaking? Apple wants $200 to fix a known issue with their phones. A phone proected by the Apple brand bumper.

It seems to me that I have every right to have jailbroken my phone to get that functionality, and now I'm SOL if I want to purchase software.

It's the wrong way to tackle a tough issue.

 

[lifeinhd]

This won't be a popular comment, however I can't say I feel sorry for those who jailbroke yet still want to use legit software from the app store.

Oh, so you'd rather all JBers use pirated software?

You realize what's going to happen to combat this, right? Someone will modify the app in such a way that allows you to shoot despite a JB, then they'll distribute it for free. The developer is shooting themselves in the foot without realizing it, and frankly I hope they get burned. There's proper ways to combat piracy, then there's this. Selling people a game they can't play with no warning (and of course Apple still has no return policy) is criminal.

 

[TedM]

how silly.

 

[lifeinhd]

Sounds more like an issue with your service provider. I have free tethering as well, w/o jailbreaking.

Assuming you're in the US, I pay less than you do, so it's not really a carrier issue. But I still want to use my PAID FOR data on a different device, thus jailbreak.

 

[jasvncnt]

You went to the Apple iOS App Store for your game and you need to be told what platform the game supports?

Expecting it to work on anything but vanilla iOS does not make sense.

Really? You cant see where your scenario made no sense? Your going to compare installing a game you bought for windows and then complaining because you cant install it on Ubuntu, a totally different OS.......to buying a game for IOS that does not work on a JB'd IOS device?

 

[VoR]

But a broken power button is, IMO, a major problem. If my car stereo's power button broke, I'd have to get it fixed or maybe replace the stereo. I wouldn't ever think, 'Gee... maybe I can hack the software in it so I don't need to press that button anymore. Because you know -- it's expensive getting the button fixed!"

If you can, why wouldn't you change the software? Maybe you'd like to change another button to do something different that makes it better/increases enjoyment while you're at it?

 

[ritmomundo]

Just install xCon from Cydia. It prevents certain stupid apps like this from detecting the jailbreak so they work as intended. Also works for Amazon Instant Video, Redbox, etc.