Do I really have to click to wake AND then scan my fingerprint?

[Knowimagination]

While that video can be debated, there's absolutely no debating Phil's comments were inaccurate to what's available now.

There is some debate actually. He didn't say you don't have to click it to unlock your phone he said that you don't have to click it for the touch ID sensor to start reading your print. He was simply describing how the sensor works.

But just because touch ID is reading doesn't mean it automatically wakes your phone.

Ultimately it is a little ridiculous that this topic lasted this many pages. It is no big deal to need to physically press the home button before it unlocks the phone. To say that apple is not innovating because they require a button press before the fingerprint scan is also silly.

 

[shenan1982]

It is no big deal to need to physically press the home button before it unlocks the phone.

From an engineering standpoint, one might argue it is a bit of a big deal to design a capacitive sensor that needs to be physically depressed to be enabled.

I have a car that senses when the windshield is wet, and the wiper turn themselves on accordingly. This would be like having that feature, but having to turn the auto-sensing wipers on when it rains.

But hey, I think you're right about this going on and on... clearly there are two opinions as to what was said\implied, but I think we all can agree that the functionality is as covered here, press, release pressure, and hold until unlock. Not the most ideal, but quite functional.

Thanks for participating in my thread. Maybe if we're lucky the next iteration of iPhone Apple will join 2013 (or 2014) and get rid of a physical button once and for all. Took 10 years to rid themselves of the clunky 30 pin dock connector, so maybe by 2020 we'll have a real capacitive home button.

 

[Carlanga]

You must love infomercials, because I suppose if it does anything remotely similar to what's advertised on TV, it's a good product I guess. LOL

You do know the whole point of a capacitive steel sensor is that the natural current in your body is what sends the signal that it's being used, right? It's like saying by having the phone sitting there powering the home button toggle, or the volume rocker that it's draining the battery.

Bottom line is I'm not saying this is the worst thing ever, I just think initially this was meant to be an activation method without a push, but think of the amount of battery drain if you're talking on the phone and the light sensor is turning off the phone when you hold it up to your ear, and the touch sensor is detecting your cheek and turning the screen on... it'd be a tug of war.

I do WISH it was a capacitive wake though. That would have set this phone apart in my mind. Long before rumors of fingerprint sensors, there have been many many many rumors of a capacitive home button, so to say it's not plausible is unfair.

----------



I don't notice a click, but we all see what we want to see. Either way, it's quite clear when the screen is dark that it's a full wake, and there's no "obvious" clicking of the home button.

While that video can be debated, there's absolutely no debating Phil's comments were inaccurate to what's available now.

1. How can you not notice the click? For someone that complains of a word in a commercial I would have expected more. How many thing do you return a year? 90% of them probably.
2. The words hold true even when separate from the video.
3. For someone that complains that people don't know what they are talking about, you sure go to your own rant to try to make it fit and then complain of others that you say are trolling the thread because they disagree w what you are thinking.
4. At the end, enjoy it or return it and get a droid is also an alternative.

 

[FrankB1191]

Trolling......

From the Urban Dictionary:

Troll:
One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.


When most others seem to get it now, you say you don't want to get over it, and that Apple somehow failed..... Even the Android fans are impressed with the 5S!

P.S. I have a Samsung tablet with capacitive touchscreen buttons, and they're an absolute nuisance. Samsung put both physical and capacitive buttons on their Note tablets, and I bumped into both too often. Returned it a week later....

 

[shenan1982]

1. How can you not notice the click? For someone that complains of a word in a commercial I would have expected more. How many thing do you return a year? 90% of them probably.
2. The words hold true even when separate from the video.
3. For someone that complains that people don't know what they are talking about, you sure go to your own rant to try to make it fit and then complain of others that you say are trolling the thread because they disagree w what you are thinking.
4. At the end, enjoy it or return it and get a droid is also an alternative.

I didn't say it ruined the phone... I'm not defending the product nor feature.

Looking through your post history, you seem to defend Apple anytime someone says they have a negative experience.

You defended Safari when someone said it was laggy for them.

You defended the screen size when someone expressed that they want a bigger screen.

You defend the battery when someone said it doesn't last as long as they feel it should.

You defended the sensor when someone said it wouldn't work reliably with their finger.


Sooner or later you'll have to realize that just because something works for you, or works within your level of tolerance, that may not fall within someone else's expectations, so to bash their opinion and say "this is the way it is, period" makes you look a little foolish.... because there are many issues that only affect some users, and what someone might interpret as an issue, you may not, this one being a prime example. But to enter a thread where several users are saying they feel like the product was represented as having a feature and you saying "nope nope nope" ... it's kinda counterproductive to the discussion. There is no right or wrong here, it's all just opinions, but you should be a little more open-minded to those that differ from your own, because clearly some people interpret what Phil said as something different than you.

That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Carlanga]

I didn't say it ruined the phone... I'm not defending the product nor feature.

Looking through your post history, you seem to defend Apple anytime someone says they have a negative experience.

You defended Safari when someone said it was laggy for them.

You defended the screen size when someone expressed that they want a bigger screen.

You defend the battery when someone said it doesn't last as long as they feel it should.

You defended the sensor when someone said it wouldn't work reliably with their finger.


Sooner or later you'll have to realize that just because something works for you, or works within your level of tolerance, that may not fall within someone else's expectations, so to bash their opinion and say "this is the way it is, period" makes you look a little foolish.... because there are many issues that only affect some users, and what someone might interpret as an issue, you may not, this one being a prime example. But to enter a thread where several users are saying they feel like the product was represented as having a feature and you saying "nope nope nope" ... it's kinda counterproductive to the discussion. There is no right or wrong here, it's all just opinions, but you should be a little more open-minded to those that differ from your own, because clearly some people interpret what Phil said as something different than you.

That's all I have to say about that.

I see what's happening you fail at reading comprehension. Did you not see that the safari lag thread was made by ME because it started to lag incredibly 12 hours in. Go to your bridge I'm done.

 

[TonyC28]

I think this can all be summed up very simply. The OP asked a question based on how he thought the Touch ID sensor would operate. I think we could all agree that based on Schiller's "you don't even have to click it" comment the OP asked a perfectly valid question.

I have to disagree with those of you who are defending Schiller by pointing out that once your phone is on you don't have to click the button and therefore Schiller was right. I can't speak for everyone but I have yet to use the fingerprint scanner for a purchase, so in my case I use it 100% of the time to unlock my phone. I would guess that for everyone else it's at least 80% of the time. Basically it's safe to say the vast majority of the time the scanner is used to unlock the phone. So to defend Schiller's comment based on that logic is to say that as long as it works for a minority of instances it's ok for him to say it works for all instances.

Now I'm not saying he was intentionally misleading us. But I do think he could have explained that part better. This is really a non-issue for me but I can definitely see how a reasonable person would think exactly what the OP did based on how Schiller presented it at the Keynote.

And for what it's worth the page on Apple's website describing Touch ID does clearly explain that you must press either the home button or sleep/wake button before being able to use the Touch ID scanner if your phone was locked.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5883

 

[shenan1982]

I think this can all be summed up very simply. The OP asked a question based on how he thought the Touch ID sensor would operate. I think we could all agree that based on Schiller's "you don't even have to click it" comment the OP asked a perfectly valid question.

I have to disagree with those of you who are defending Schiller by pointing out that once your phone is on you don't have to click the button and therefore Schiller was right. I can't speak for everyone but I have yet to use the fingerprint scanner for a purchase, so in my case I use it 100% of the time to unlock my phone. I would guess that for everyone else it's at least 80% of the time. Basically it's safe to say the vast majority of the time the scanner is used to unlock the phone. So to defend Schiller's comment based on that logic is to say that as long as it works for a minority of instances it's ok for him to say it works for all instances.

Now I'm not saying he was intentionally misleading us. But I do think he could have explained that part better. This is really a non-issue for me but I can definitely see how a reasonable person would think exactly what the OP did based on how Schiller presented it at the Keynote.

And for what it's worth the page on Apple's website describing Touch ID does clearly explain that you must press either the home button or sleep/wake button before being able to use the Touch ID scanner if your phone was locked.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5883

Well said, quite logical, and thanks for providing the apple KB article. I think we're done here in this thread....

 

[FrankB1191]

I swear I'm not trying to argue, but I will defend Shiller's presentation a bit. I stayed home with a cold today, so I just fast forwarded to Schiller's Touch ID comments. He has an image of the components displayed, and at 57:35 says that home button "Works the way it used to." "Around it is a stainless steel detection ring, so the sensor knows when to read your fingerprint just by the fact that your finger is on the button...you don't even have to click it." (57min 45 sec). That's absolutely true IF the phone is awake. Phil never said your finger print would wake the phone, but he did show the 3:01 minute video immediately after.

P.S. I'm home, but I still get calls and had to pause the video. At 58:09 minutes, Phil says, "And once you do (train the phone to scan your print), you can simply touch the home button to unlock your phone." He didn't say it would wake the phone, and people can judge how well Phil used his words for themselves.

 

[gentlefury]

You can clearly see him press the button in the video. You just don't want to admit how silly you sound.

 

[TonyC28]

I swear I'm not trying to argue, but I will defend Shiller's presentation a bit. I stayed home with a cold today, so I just fast forwarded to Schiller's Touch ID comments. He has an image of the components displayed, and at 57:35 says that home button "Works the way it used to." "Around it is a stainless steel detection ring, so the sensor knows when to read your fingerprint just by the fact that your finger is on the button...you don't even have to click it." (57min 45 sec). That's absolutely true IF the phone is awake. Phil never said your finger print would wake the phone, but he did show the 3:01 minute video immediately after.

P.S. I'm home, but I still get calls and had to pause the video. At 58:09 minutes, Phil says, "And once you do (train the phone to scan your print), you can simply touch the home button to unlock your phone." He didn't say it would wake the phone, and people can judge how well Phil used his words for themselves.

You can clearly see him press the button in the video. You just don't want to admit how silly you sound.

I think now this debate is going to focus on words and semantics. I guess I'm just hung up on "you don't even have to click it." And then a few minutes later during the video at 59:42 Dan Riccio says "with just a touch of your home button the Touch ID quickly reads your fingerprint and automatcically unlocks your phone." And he says this while the video shows someone unlocking the phone. So.....with just a TOUCH. I guess now we can debate the functional difference of the words "touch" and "click."

 

[nooaah]

If it didn't require a click of the home button people would be constantly unlocking their phones by accident. All you need to do is click, wait half a second, and release. It's simple and awesome. I don't even see my lock screen anymore. It works that quickly.

 

[FrankB1191]

I think now this debate is going to focus on words and semantics. I guess I'm just hung up on "you don't even have to click it." And then a few minutes later during the video at 59:42 Dan Riccio says "with just a touch of your home button the Touch ID quickly reads your fingerprint and automatcically unlocks your phone." And he says this while the video shows someone unlocking the phone. So.....with just a TOUCH. I guess now we can debate the functional difference of the words "touch" and "click."

I live just outside of Philadelphia, and there are 4 Apple stores within 45 minutes or less of my home. In addition, I watch YouTube reviews, and read The Verge etc. My opinion of the 5S was not built upon every word that Riccio and Schiller said during a live presentation. Had they elaborated on touch and click in a way that was misrepresentative of the product I purchased, then I'd have an issue. These men are not the greatest orators of the 21st Century, so it's best to look closely after the presentation. I was freaking a little because my free iMovies, iPhoto, etc weren't appearing as FREE in the App Store until last night. That was something that Tim Cook was quite clear about on September 10th, and I wanted the free apps that I already have on my MacBook.

 

[joonyaboy]

I love it. Fast and effective

 

[wepiii]

Nope, Phil was referring to doing a scan, not waking the device. "You don't have to click it" to do a scan -- this is true. You do have to click it to wake the device. And then do a scan. They are two separate and distinct actions. The fact that they can be kind of mushed up next to each other by continuing to rest your thumb on the button after clicking seems to be what's confusing people.

Seriously, I think people just need to get over this.

Why would any reasonable person assume he was talking about not having to click it only when entering the password for purchases? If you clicked it then, you would go back to the home screen.

Simple question... If the way it is working now, was the way it was designed to work, then what exactly is the point of the steel ring?

A 5s with no steel sensor could work exactly as it does now...

Home screen = turn on fingerprint scanner when home button is clicked

App Purchase = turn on fingerprint scanner when password is requested. Just like the keyboard normally pops up when asking for a password.

What is the point of the capacitive ring?

I'm not mad about it. No it isn't a huge deal. But it's still worth discussing, because I think the functionality is likely to change... Or apple just made up a piece of hardware that doesn't really exist.

 

[3lite]

Not reading through 8 pages for a simple question.

So, do we need to press the sleep button and then place our finger on the home button or not?

 

[wepiii]

Not reading through 8 pages for a simple question.

So, do we need to press the sleep button and then place our finger on the home button or not?

Yes. Or press the home button and leave your finger in place for the scan.

 

[wepiii]

Why would any reasonable person assume he was talking about not having to click it only when entering the password for purchases? If you clicked it then, you would go back to the home screen.

Simple question... If the way it is working now, was the way it was designed to work, then what exactly is the point of the steel ring?

A 5s with no steel sensor could work exactly as it does now...

Home screen = turn on fingerprint scanner when home button is clicked

App Purchase = turn on fingerprint scanner when password is requested. Just like the keyboard normally pops up when asking for a password.

What is the point of the capacitive ring?

I'm not mad about it. No it isn't a huge deal. But it's still worth discussing, because I think the functionality is likely to change... Or apple just made up a piece of hardware that doesn't really exist.

I hope I'm missing something but seeing as I'm still waiting for someone to explain its purpose as it is used now, it's not looking good

 

[shenan1982]

I hope I'm missing something but seeing as I'm still waiting for someone to explain its purpose as it is used now, it's not looking good

They can't explain, they can only troll. Notice how it gets silent when 3 people in a row ask them to explain the capacitive if the screen prompt for a scan prior to touching? Redundancy at it's finest. Some members are so quick to try and define what Phil meant, yet they're silent when it comes to responding to the question you and others asked.

 

[wepiii]

Ok well since they are all quiet now, maybe a discussion can actually happen. Do you think it will change, or do you think this is it?

 

[karmamule]

I hope I'm missing something but seeing as I'm still waiting for someone to explain its purpose as it is used now, it's not looking good

Just speculating, but could the capacitive ring be part of how the iPhone knows it's a live finger that is being scanned vs a fake?

Also, it would help in the scenario that someone navigates to a place that wants to scan for a fingerprint but gets distracted and sets the phone down before bothering to scan a finger. Without the capacitive ring the sensor would get activated and perhaps stay on draining battery for some period of time while it waits, whereas with the capactive ring it won't turn it on until the person definitely responds to the prompt, thus potentially saving some battery drain.

 

[wepiii]

Just speculating, but could the capacitive ring be part of how the iPhone knows it's a live finger that is being scanned vs a fake?

Also, it would help in the scenario that someone navigates to a place that wants to scan for a fingerprint but gets distracted and sets the phone down before bothering to scan a finger. Without the capacitive ring the sensor would get activated and perhaps stay on draining battery for some period of time while it waits, whereas with the capactive ring it won't turn it on until the person definitely responds to the prompt, thus potentially saving some battery drain.

Very good points. But it still seems like something software could handle. As far as battery drain, just a timeout or something. But the live vs fake is something I wasn't considering. Although it seems like the capacitive ring is just looking for any finger, and the camera/scanner/whatever it is, is doing the authenticating

 

[rocksyoursock]

If your phone is awake and needs unlocked, just touch the home button, the ring will know your finger is there. If the phone is asleep, then the top button or home button will need to be pressed to waken your phone first. Best way if your phone is asleep is just press the home button and let your thumb linger for the extra half a second. It is faster using Touch ID than using no code at all and swiping to unlock.

 

[gentlefury]

Just speculating, but could the capacitive ring be part of how the iPhone knows it's a live finger that is being scanned vs a fake?

Also, it would help in the scenario that someone navigates to a place that wants to scan for a fingerprint but gets distracted and sets the phone down before bothering to scan a finger. Without the capacitive ring the sensor would get activated and perhaps stay on draining battery for some period of time while it waits, whereas with the capactive ring it won't turn it on until the person definitely responds to the prompt, thus potentially saving some battery drain.

That was 100% what I thought it was for. Biometric...not on/off switch.

 

[elistan]

I have a car that senses when the windshield is wet, and the wiper turn themselves on accordingly. This would be like having that feature, but having to turn the auto-sensing wipers on when it rains.

Funny you say that. For what it's worth, I have a BMW that does exactly that. To enable the automatic rain-sensing wipers, I have to push in a button at the end of the control stalk.