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Do you agree with Apple charging $9.95 for the 2.0 firmware for iPod Touch users?

  • Yes... it's a perfect price.

    Votes: 82 26.4%
  • Ya... it's ok.

    Votes: 85 27.3%
  • I don't really care, i just want 2.0

    Votes: 52 16.7%
  • No, i hate it, i wished it was FREE

    Votes: 92 29.6%

  • Total voters
    311
  • Poll closed .
By law they have to. No, I don't agree with that law.

No they don't *really* have to by law, they just chose to because of the law. The law people are talking about deals with how public corporations account for their profits. The corporation has to list how much money they made every quarter, and somewhere in that listing is a detailed accounting saying something like "iPod Touch cost us $200 to manufacture, we sold it for $500, earned $300 profit". The law people are talking about states that if you add unannounced features to a device, then you have to go back and re-list your accounting for all the quarters that that device has been sold, lowering your overall announced profits for the device, saying "iPod Touch cost us $200 PLUS $20 for new feature X to manufacture, we sold it for $500, earned $280 profit, so lower out total profits to date by $2 million". Basically, they have to say they earned less money than they previously announced because they have to consider the entire cost of the unit.

As I understand it (not being legal-minded in any sense of the term), this is to keep companies from announcing huge profits from a new product release and then hiding the actual profits by releasing the real functionality later. For example, say Apple spent $10 million developing a device and sold $6 million worth of the device in its first quarter, before this law they could have hidden that $4 million loss by just not announcing half of the features and releasing them later as a free upgrade, announcing that the device only cost them $5 million to make because they are only counting the features available at launch. This way that first quarter everyone buys lots of Apple stock because their new device earned a $1 million profit. This is the kind of thing Enron did to make people think they were doing amazingly great, just keeping pushing the loss announcements off while they kept getting bigger and bigger.

So anyways, Apple chose to charge for the upgrade as a new product rather than have their accountaints go back and re-do their accounting for the 2007 fiscal year. They didn't have to charge any money at all, they are just doing it to save some work from their accountaints and keep from having to make negative announcements. And they are charging $10 for it just because...they like money :). They only charged $5 to activate 802.11n in their wireless routers, and could have probably just charged $1 if they wanted.

The iPhone isn't involved in all this because Apple announced up front that they were going to be adding new features to the device throughout its lifetime (so investors' accountaints would be prepared for ongoing new development costs).
 
i dont care. i just want 2.0, and im shure that those who refuse becouse of a measly $10 will see the light soon
 
Honestly I've never understood this law...there have been point OS X updates with new features, why is the touch OS any different? Honestly all I care about in the update is third party apps, and Apple already gets 30% of the profits for each app sold, so why should I be forced to pay for entry into a *store*?
 
Do the iphone users pay it off during the contract?
just a thought, where as ipod touch user obviously dont have a contract to pay, so we get charged for the update.
 
This topic brings up an interesting point. Since the iPhone is no longer revenue sharing on Apple's part (as for the 3G anyways), will they start charing iPhone owners going forward?

I hope not, but I am not familiar with the law that requires Apple to charge for updates.

No because Apple will still record the profits over time, see how they do it with the Apple TV.
 
People who are choosing 'No, i hate it, i wished it was FREE', do you also expect your;

- TV license?
- Digital camera?
- Computer(s)?
- Microwave?
- Access to the internet?

... to cost NOTHING?!

Get over it, the world doesn't work like that. The 2.0 Software will add more functionality then you've ever had on your device.

You work, you pay. Simple.

R-Fly
 
I think they should use the $$ they are going to make off the App store to fund the updates. Doesn't that sound halfway logical? If you think about it, they are just creating one more thing we will pay for. But in the end, I guess business is all about making money and this is not a forced update, but completely optional.
 
I know that's how Apple explains it away, but if that's actually the case why has Sony released a boatload of PS3 firmware updates that have added software and hardware support... for free?

It has to do with how they recognize the profits and adjust for updates. Sony has only the PS3, so however they update and report it only affects the PS3 bottom line. Apple has two identical software updates for two different products that are recognized (financially) two different ways. If Sony were to recognize the PS3 profits over 24 months, and PS2 profits all at once, and they released an update for both systems, PS2 owners would have to pay. Does that make sense?

Doesn't that "law" only apply to mobile communication devices?

No. It applies to all companies, it's not specifically for software updates for tech companies, it's an accounting regulation post-Enron/WorldCom, etc.

No they don't *really* have to by law, they just chose to because of the law. The law people are talking about deals with how public corporations account for their profits. The corporation has to list how much money they made every quarter, and somewhere in that listing is a detailed accounting saying something like "iPod Touch cost us $200 to manufacture, we sold it for $500, earned $300 profit". The law people are talking about states that if you add unannounced features to a device, then you have to go back and re-list your accounting for all the quarters that that device has been sold, lowering your overall announced profits for the device, saying "iPod Touch cost us $200 PLUS $20 for new feature X to manufacture, we sold it for $500, earned $280 profit, so lower out total profits to date by $2 million". Basically, they have to say they earned less money than they previously announced because they have to consider the entire cost of the unit.

As I understand it (not being legal-minded in any sense of the term), this is to keep companies from announcing huge profits from a new product release and then hiding the actual profits by releasing the real functionality later. For example, say Apple spent $10 million developing a device and sold $6 million worth of the device in its first quarter, before this law they could have hidden that $4 million loss by just not announcing half of the features and releasing them later as a free upgrade, announcing that the device only cost them $5 million to make because they are only counting the features available at launch. This way that first quarter everyone buys lots of Apple stock because their new device earned a $1 million profit. This is the kind of thing Enron did to make people think they were doing amazingly great, just keeping pushing the loss announcements off while they kept getting bigger and bigger.

So anyways, Apple chose to charge for the upgrade as a new product rather than have their accountaints go back and re-do their accounting for the 2007 fiscal year. They didn't have to charge any money at all, they are just doing it to save some work from their accountaints and keep from having to make negative announcements. And they are charging $10 for it just because...they like money :). They only charged $5 to activate 802.11n in their wireless routers, and could have probably just charged $1 if they wanted.

The iPhone isn't involved in all this because Apple announced up front that they were going to be adding new features to the device throughout its lifetime (so investors' accountaints would be prepared for ongoing new development costs).

That is fairly accurate! Well put! The only thing that I interpreted differently was the part about the iPhone. I thought because they recognize iPhone profits and development costs over 24 months, they can release updates for free. Any adjustments to value can be worked into the monthly accounting. I am not an accountant or a lawyer but that was how I understood it.
 
You mean like Sam's Club or Costco?

I don't buy that analogy. You have to pay because the items in the store are heavily discounted. Not so in the App store.

I think a good compromise would be for apple to offer $10 credit to the App store w/ purchase of the 2.0 license.
 
This topic brings up an interesting point. Since the iPhone is no longer revenue sharing on Apple's part (as for the 3G anyways), will they start charing iPhone owners going forward?

Good question. This had occurred to me as well. I guess we'll find out.

I hope not, but I am not familiar with the law that requires Apple to charge for updates.

"Requires" is a bit strong. The explanation of the Sarbanes-Oxley disclosure issues posted by DreamPod is really good. Apple may be taking an overly conservative view of what is required to comply with the law, but I think it's worth keeping in mind that Apple has only recently been subjected to intense and embarrassing scrutiny from the SEC on the stock options issue, so I have to believe that they're now somewhat gun-shy.
 
i think it's fair - they spent time into developing it, so why not? it's a big improvement!
 
its an upgrade package. its not being forced for any of the ipod touch users to upgrade to, nor was it advertised as having the new features before being sold so i don't see what the problem. you don't lose any current functionality. if you want to upgrade then you pay. the iphone customers don't because they're in a monthly contract, which apple gets a part of. and they're recognized as two separate devices, and as such the accounting kicks in and it has to be paid for. complicated? yes. annoying? perhaps.
 
I don't buy that analogy. You have to pay because the items in the store are heavily discounted. Not so in the App store.

I think a good compromise would be for apple to offer $10 credit to the App store w/ purchase of the 2.0 license.

yeah, i agree, the Sam's thing isn't right. BUT...think if it this way. You are not paying to get into the store, you are paying for the functionality. It's like, you could walk to Target for free, but it's 10 miles away and it's 104 degrees outside. Or you could pay $5 in gas to get there. The store didn't charge you anything, but you still had to pay. There is a lot more to this 2.0 update than the store. I'm an iphone user, and i would pay for it if i had to...because i want the update.

-je
 
I think they should use the $$ they are going to make off the App store to fund the updates. Doesn't that sound halfway logical? If you think about it, they are just creating one more thing we will pay for. But in the end, I guess business is all about making money and this is not a forced update, but completely optional.

....so theyre supposed to have teams of people spending hundreds + hours on coding, and not make anything off it?:apple:
 
No they don't *really* have to by law, they just chose to because of the law.

Thanks for the good explanation of what's going on.

However, it does make one wonder about point updates for the OS and really any update at all. Why is iPhone 2.0 chargeable, but iPhone 2.0.1, which comes later, not?
 
I don't agree, but I will purchase it when it comes out.

This will always happens in the technology world. The early adapters will always pay more for the same service today...:mad:
 
Thanks for the good explanation of what's going on.

However, it does make one wonder about point updates for the OS and really any update at all. Why is iPhone 2.0 chargeable, but iPhone 2.0.1, which comes later, not?

One implements new features of the hardware, the other does not.
 
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