Does Apple Have a Scott Forstall a problem? [MERGED]

[HazyCloud]

Partners should have already been lined up. Waiting for a feature that's been touted in adverts on Apple.com and videos is completely inexcusable.

I'm not waiting for a feature. I've already got 2 passbooks loaded.

 

[dv8r]

I believe the intention with public transport etc is for 3rd party apps to hook in and provide this functionality. There are already apps available that provide routing for busses and tubes on the app store, and many are free.

I guess Apple just thought that 3rd parties can do a better job and provide more choice than just having it baked into the OS.

Yeah that's great - not all of them can and not all of them do. It also means wildly different solutions and in terms of usability wildly different results in various travel planners. This was actually something I could (can) fix myself in Google Maps using their interfaces, but this option is now gone from IOS Maps. I'm no developer so Apple apparently doesn't want me to participate in making their maps better.

And on subject: Damn straight he should be kicked out before a new "beautiful feature" finds it's way into IOS7.

 

[johndallas999]

This is coming from a diehard apple fanboy- but in my opinion, iOS 6 is a total failure. It's main feature, "Maps" is a disaster. Its other main feature, "Passbook", isn't even really useable yet. And the rest of the updates are so minor you'd really have to dig deep to find what they were.

The responsibility for this failure is on Scott Forstall. He's heading iOS, and I bet he must be facing a lot of heat (or at least I hope). I love the iPhone 5- it's such a fantastic phone, but I truly feel it's been let down by this update. I wonder what's going on?! Did you guys see him during the iPhone 5 event? He almost looked bored and showed zero enthusiasm- all the while touting maps as the best maps ever, which clearly isn't the case. It's shameful.

In any case, things obviously need some shaking up on the iOS front, and it mostly falls down on Forstall's shoulders.

Totally agree! Plus he comes across as a c@cky elitist. All that BS bragging about how magical/awesome IOS6 is. Come on!

 

[unobtainium]

The problem is not Scott, it's that his responsibilities have stretched too far with the addition of the Geo team. They need another VP. I think Apple's intentions with Maps is directly reflected in the fact that it's just a part of the overall iOS team.

Bingo. Apple is so proud of being organized like a start-up. It's time to beef it up a bit though. They need a Maps VP, a Siri VP, and maybe an iCloud VP. All of their online services (including the disastrous iTunes Match, as well as Siri and Maps) need a superhuman amount of work.

 

[allistera]

Bingo. Apple is so proud of being organized like a start-up. It's time to beef it up a bit though. They need a Maps VP, a Siri VP, and maybe an iCloud VP. All of their online services (including the disastrous iTunes Match, as well as Siri and Maps) need a superhuman amount of work.

Does anyone have any insight to Apples organisational structure? I would be really surprised if they never had 'project leaders' sort of people for each of these projects.

 

[mKTank]

So you are intentionally missing the point.

IF Apple allowed both map apps to co-exist then you can do your little excuse-dance and point fingers like a child claiming "Well Google wasnt perfect at 1.0 either". But the reason people are so down on Apple is because a solution already existed and Apple removed it entirely in favor of a product that is far from being as good. And that is a bad thing to do to your customers.

So you are intentionally missing the point.

If Apple kept the old crappy app, we'd still not have turn-by-turn navigation, we still wouldn't have 3D view (which is pretty nice, don't deny it), and we still wouldn't have a vastly improved UI. The old Maps app was garbage and everyone was saying that prior to iOS6. Go ahead and call me a child some more though, it made you look really tough.

 

[BoxerGT2.5]

So you are intentionally missing the point.

If Apple kept the old crappy app, we'd still not have turn-by-turn navigation, we still wouldn't have 3D view (which is pretty nice, don't deny it), and we still wouldn't have a vastly improved UI. The old Maps app was garbage and everyone was saying that prior to iOS6. Go ahead and call me a child some more though, it made you look really tough.

WTF good is turn by turn navigation if it takes you to the wrong place? I'm glad the maps being "pretty" does it for you!

 

[theautopilot]

WTF good is turn by turn navigation if it takes you to the wrong place? I'm glad the maps being "pretty" does it for you!

Absolutely, or in my case (the most well mapped country in the world) it often wont take you anywhere because so many roads and towns are missing, wrongly named and in the wrong place. No feature is worthwhile if the core map data is so wildly incorrect.

As a wise man once said "you can't polish a turd".

 

[dv8r]

I think in terms of inaccuracies, they made some errors, but in terms of changing the features such as bike paths or public transportation routes, etc. that was a decision they made purposely. Not to say they won't eventually put those back in but I don't see it as a screw up.

Tim said sorry - so there's really no need to defend Apple Maps anymore.

Adding Apple Maps and getting rid of Google Maps was a conscious choice. The following debacle either means that there's no QA on IOS within Apple (and then Forstall should be kicked out the door), or that Apple made this choice even if they knew it was going to be a mess (then Forstall should be escorted to the door). Not adding Transit information is logical because there weren't a global partner (or even a semi-local one), Apple used partners too populate this thing and there either were to many (one for each city) or too few (one for a few cities) so they dumped it. Seeing how the partnering thing turned out in Maps I'm glad they did - that would also have been broken beyond belief. So in essence the model they choose for doing Maps is the screw-up itself, the rest is just fall-out.

 

[Saladinos]

This is coming from a diehard apple fanboy- but in my opinion, iOS 6 is a total failure. It's main feature, "Maps" is a disaster. Its other main feature, "Passbook", isn't even really useable yet. And the rest of the updates are so minor you'd really have to dig deep to find what they were.

The responsibility for this failure is on Scott Forstall. He's heading iOS, and I bet he must be facing a lot of heat (or at least I hope). I love the iPhone 5- it's such a fantastic phone, but I truly feel it's been let down by this update. I wonder what's going on?! Did you guys see him during the iPhone 5 event? He almost looked bored and showed zero enthusiasm- all the while touting maps as the best maps ever, which clearly isn't the case. It's shameful.

In any case, things obviously need some shaking up on the iOS front, and it mostly falls down on Forstall's shoulders.

I don't know what's going on inside Apple internally, but here's what I know as a customer and a developer:

- iPhone hardware team is doing an amazing job. The new iPad is a bit weak with the thinner glass that protrudes from the shell (feels much less sturdy than my iPad 1). Mac portables are likewise excellent, and the Mac desktop has just about reached perfection (bar the Mac Pro's specs).

- Software teams are doing much less amazing a job. Their user interface design has taken an unwelcome skeumorphic twist, and they're tripping up blunder-after-blunder (iOS6 coloured status bar, notification centre, ML iCal).

They're also not releasing new and innovative features. They seem to have hit a wall in new ideas; things like Siri and Maps are really quite small features for a company of Apple's size. Perhaps they should hire more software engineers. They have the freedom to do whatever they damn well like, and a global audience to hear their ideas. I admit we should be seeing more creative new features in iOS devices; it just seems someone at Apple isn't doing it. Google are by far a more innovative company, and their total anthesis-to-Apple culture might have something to do with it. I bet it's hard competing against that when you're looking for the best talent in the world.

That said, Apple's software is leaps and bounds ahead of the competiton for developers. The iOS SDK and documentation are gold compared to the crap you get for Android. The whole tool chain - from Xcode to the Clang/LLVM compiler to the iPhone simulator beat all other platforms hands down IMO. GCD is great, Objective-C even grows on you. iOS6 did introduce some really great new APIs that developers can do great things with (e.g. UICollectionView), and thanks to users swiftly updating, they can! Latest figures I saw was that iOS6 was already 60% of iOS web traffic.

- I don't like Scott Forstall. He just seems smug and too rehearsed. He doesn't have any feeling in his voice the way the others do, and the feelings you do get from his voice aren't pleasant.

 

[dv8r]

Also, navigation always takes me to the right place. And I live in a crappy little city in Canada that is hardly on Apple's mind. I don't know if you guys are posting on the behalf of biased negative press or on the behalf of personal experience ranging from any time in the past few days, because most of these 'issues' everyone is whinging about are long gone.

"It works for me, so I REALLY don't think you are telling the truth when you say it isn't working for you"

What issues are gone?
Bad routing information? No, it just gave me an adventure when I tested it today.
POI's all over the place? No, they're still on the same place.
Faulty naming of major routes? No, where I live it even got worse during last week.
Inconsistency in information? No, subway stations on Manhattan still pop up and disappear randomly during zoom.
Wrong building information on maps? No, still unchanged.
Search being terrible? No, still have to use specific address (with city and zip) to get the right answers.
Ignoring walking paths? No, still thinks I'm driving all over the place.
Better interface for error-reporting? No, still the same lousy functionality.

 

[BoxerGT2.5]

Here I found the middle of no where, lucky me:



Here is where turn by turn took me. The red pin is where apple put the store. Blue is actual store location. I could almost accept being a block off, but that's absurd.

 

[irDigital0l]

Was reading article from Bloomberg that he doesn't get along well with Ive and Mansfield.

 

[MozMan68]

Here I found the middle of no where, lucky me:

View attachment 365096

Here is where turn by turn took me. The red pin is where apple put the store. Blue is actual store location. I could almost accept being a block off, but that's absurd.

View attachment 365098

Looks to me like you just picked the wrong one....FAIL...



Edit: and yes... I'm being a smartass...at least you posted a screen shot so i could try it for myself. Sick of all these posts claiming stuff is wrong without at least some info to back it up. As you can see, I just typed in American Eagle and the search pin came up, so I selected it.

 

[kilcher]

Passbook has only been out a little over a week. Give it some time to develop. As for Maps, I personally haven't had any issues with it. If you are having issues, there's plenty of alternatives.

My problem with Passbook is, even if there were a million stores that use it, the implementation is HORRIBLE. It's difficult for most people here to figure out, let alone the general public, and for it to really catch on that's what we need. Passbook is the only thing in iOS6 I was looking forward to and I have less and less hope for it every day.

 

[dv8r]

Looks to me like you just picked the wrong one....FAIL...

Nope - you fail. Just tried this. If you search "American Eagle Saint Charles" it selects the one he posted and zooms you there. The one You refer to is also marked "Approximate Location", it can be seen on your picture also.

----------

Passbook has only been out a little over a week. Give it some time to develop. As for Maps, I personally haven't had any issues with it. If you are having issues, there's plenty of alternatives.

Well in essence Passbook will suck as long as Map isn't providing correct information. It's supposed to come up with your pass when you are at the airport, the cinema or a Starbucks. As long as Maps doesn't know that the cinema is there or even the airport - I have to dig it out myself. Might as well have the tickets in my mailbox then.

 

[MozMan68]

Nope - you fail. Just tried this. If you search "American Eagle Saint Charles" it selects the one he posted and zooms you there. The one You refer to is also marked "Approximate Location", it can be seen on your picture also.

Ummm...I was looking at a map of Saint Charles and searched for American Eagle and they popped up.

Approximate location? Who cares...it's exactly where he said it was.

And check again...the one that pops up as you stated is in Saint Charles....the one he wanted to go to is in Geneva.

FAIL for both of you...but thanks again for clarifying what you typed in to prove that you were wrong and Maps is correct.


Hmmmmmm.....looks what happens when I search for the one in the correct town...

 

[NedBookPro]

I wrote a letter to Tim suggesting that Jony Ive be put in charge of design for all products, both hardware and software. He's the closest guy Apple has to Jobs in terms of intuitive taste.

How do we know that Jony Ives isn't behind some of this mess?
I don't think that he necessarily would / could solve these problems. No doubt he must already be a senior adviser.

I can't help but think that without Jobs, and that without the anal attention to detail he was famous for, is what's causing these nagging issues.

He must have been like the conductor in an orchestra. Every is a master at their instrument, but without a conductor, they are all over the place.

.

 

[dv8r]

Ummm...I was looking at a map of Saint Charles and searched for American Eagle and they popped up.

Don't think you did - Maps selected the other one and you selected the one marked "Approximate location". The first one is the one that's on center and gets the bubble.

 

[mKTank]

So a "sensible" company instead puts out a 1/4 baked map app that has more glitz than function. Seriously why all the emphasis on Flyover when the core functionality of the mapping program itself is so severly lacking?

You're right. I just think we need to give them a proper chance to improve it. It could have been a smoother launch.

 

[BoxerGT2.5]

Looks to me like you just picked the wrong one....FAIL...



Edit: and yes... I'm being a smartass...at least you posted a screen shot so i could try it for myself. Sick of all these posts claiming stuff is wrong without at least some info to back it up. As you can see, I just typed in American Eagle and the search pin came up, so I selected it.

My point is this happens often. I don't trust it. Sure there are 3rd party apps but apple refuses to allow me to select which I'd like to use as the default. When a core function in a closed system like iOS is half assed, suddenly it just works gets tossed out the window and the phone becomes more of a headache to use.

 

[NedBookPro]

iOS6 is a Scott Forstall problem in the narrow view, but it's just another in a growing list of symptoms of the larger problem. Apple is leaderless. Yes, there's a guy in the office, sitting at the desk, but he's no leader.

Apple is full of wacky creatives. It used to have Steve Jobs to reel them in. He would say no as often, if not more so, than yes.

Now it seems that no is being said far less often, and yes far too often.

Yes, let's spend a disproportionate amount of time and energy programming funny stuff for Siri to say.

Yes, lets spend a disproportionate amount of time and energy making 3D maps out of leftover Quake II textures that do absolutely nothing to get people where they need to go, instead of concentrating on nailing basic maps.

Yes, let's change things for the sake of changing them.

Yes, let's not add things that people have been clamoring for since the first iPhone.

Yes, let's make it nearly impossible to find what you're looking for on the App Store.

People went on and on about the genius of Steve Jobs. Sure, he had some cool ideas and was a great showman. But the qualities he had that made Apple what it is today, were his borderline personality, his micro managing, his OCD, his ability to badger, berate and belittle, then kiss and make up, and above all, his ability to instill fear into the hearts of his employees, his vendors, his retail partners, everyone who crossed his path. Everyone feared the wrath of Steve.

No one fears the rath of Tim Cook. There is no rath of Tim Cook. Tim Cook is Apple's stepdad.

Vendors don't fear him. That's why the iPhone 5 was so leaky that a fully functioning phone was built from parts leaked by myriad vendors. That's why Goophone patented Apple's own design before they even launched it.

Scott Forstall doesn't fear him. That's why he had either the loudest or the most final say in iOS6. SJ would have shot down the new App Store design in about 3 seconds and Forstall would have run home with his tail between his legs.

Jonny Ive and his design boys are now a loose cannon too. SJ was all about materials. What does Tim Cook know about materials? He knows how much they weigh on a cargo ship. That's about it. Jonny Ive wanted a black metal iPhone. Steve Jobs probably shot it down 50 prototypes ago. But now Jonny gets his way. In the eyes of a nice guy like Tim Cook, Jonny Ive is probably the closest embodiment to what Steve Jobs stood for and the next person after Steve to get the most credit for where Apple is today, so of course he will defer to Jonny's penchant for a black metal phone, especially since he doesn't know anything about materials.

And I've said it many times, Tim Cook's supply-guy tactics of manufacturing far more product than Steve Jobs did is great for short term bottom lines, but bad for the long term status of the cult of desire for Apple products.

Tim Cook made millions of iPad 3s. There were no lines at the stores. No news cameras. No real buzz. Just a **** ton of iPads.

Steve knew that people want what they can't have. He knew how to get people drooling...dangle the iDevice in front of them for a couple of months before releasing worldwide. That may have meant less iDevices sold on launch day, but it also meant a lot more free press and a lot more cult status, which carried over to the next product, and the next.

With Tim driving, the world is blanketed in iProducts all at once. The vendors leak the parts with no repercussions. The lines to buy are smaller. News about bad decisions in the software is louder than the news about the devices themselves. That's ared flag that something is wrong at the top.

Sir, I tip my hat to you. Your observations a 100% spot on.

One can only hope that apple reads your post, and does some mindful reflection on it.

.

 

[MozMan68]

Don't think you did - Maps selected the other one and you selected the one marked "Approximate location". The first one is the one that's on center and gets the bubble.

Right...the one in Saint Charles is the one that Maps tried to take him to.

The fact that the one in Geneva came up as well and I selected it is beside the point. As you can see, the pin is red. Both came up.

Did you even read my last post proving both of you were wrong?

 

[BoxerGT2.5]

Right...the one in Saint Charles is the one that Maps tried to take him to.

The fact that the one in Geneva came up as well and I selected it is beside the point. As you can see, the pin is red. Both came up.

Did you even read my last post proving both of you were wrong?

Type in American Eagle Outfitters and see how many show up. That is the stores name afterall.

 

[MozMan68]

My point is this happens often. I don't trust it. Sure there are 3rd party apps but apple refuses to allow me to select which I'd like to use as the default. When a core function in a closed system like iOS is half assed, suddenly it just works gets tossed out the window and the phone becomes more of a headache to use.

What happens often? People ask for a store in a specific town and Maps wants to take you there?

Please read my follow up post explaining what he did wrong.