Donald Trump Says Apple Won't Be Granted Tariff Relief on Mac Pro Parts Made in China: 'Make Them in The USA, No Tariffs!'

[CptnJustc]

And it's not magic to train a factory worker other skills. I work in property management now, we are chomping at the bit to get some decent maintenance guys with some basic skills. The problem is a lot of these kids going to college are looking to come out for office jobs. The trades are starving for people, and many are willing to pay for the schooling and training to get people in.

But you seem to be acknowledging that it's very difficult for the trades to hire enough people because they think they can find more attractive offers elsewhere. Why bother trying to force them into less efficient uses when they're already using their skills in productive ways they think more suited to them?

It's not a magic wand, it's common sense. Give business more incentive to come back to the country and dissuade others from leaving, more companies stay, more jobs are created.

People and businesses trade because it is advantageous for them to do so. They can stretch their resources further, becoming more economically efficient (and they are forced to by international competition). More productive businesses create more wealth and can use their resources to create more jobs. Broadening the pool of available workers lets many of them specialize in more lucrative professions. Interfering with trade, whether giving 'incentives' or 'dissuading', interferes with this process. Not to say in some cases it can't be a good idea... but the burden of proof should be on the argument for interference in any particular case.

Look at where the country was at as a whole economically 3-4 years ago

Growing at literally the same rate as now, according to today's GDP numbers.

look at the country's credit rating 3-4 years ago compared to now.

...huh?

 

[HiRez]

So now it's a $1,500 stand?

 

[SoGood]

Such is the ignorance of a large section of the American public, having no ideas of how the world and domestic economy works. Globalisation was pushed by the US for decades and massively benefited the US. Right now, US has climbed the economic food chain and can not return to its old state unless there's a revolution and crash the economy. Manufacturing jobs won't return to the US unless the cost of employment is at least halved, completely unpalatable for the US public and expecting to achieve such is but ignorance and wishful thinking. The world's manufacturing supply chain has long left the US and even China has been climbing and off-loading lower value manufacturing to developing countries. Looking from the outside, what Trump and his supporters are trying to do is but shooting itself in the foot as for those Brexiters. In due course, they'll crash the vibrancy of their economies by artificially binding their major corporations, losing international competitiveness. With these domestic attitudes and policies, Apple and other major US corporations will start to decline and the real suffering will be America. So dumb!

 

[macdragonfl]

Disagree. We've had a 25% tariff on "light trucks" (70% of the US automobile market) for 55 years. Works wonderfully. 2/3 of US sold Hondas are built here, 56% of Toyotas (87% inside NAFTA). The US supply chain has been maintained. There's US sheet metal companies, Toyota transmission plants, know somebody who works at a head gasket plant, you can go to the University of Michigan to study automotive engineering and manufacturing...

The strong and consistently applied automobile tariff kept automobile manufacturing alive. We made our electronics here in the US until Clinton let it slip to China in the 1990s.

George H.W. Bush negotiated and signed the NAFTA agreement.

 

[SoGood]

The infrastructure to build in the US simply doesn't exist.

So sad to see people supporting such impossible claims.
[doublepost=1564194532][/doublepost]

Makes sense to me.
America first.

This is called selfish ignorance.

 

[Shirasaki]

Apple should just bite the bullet and produce everything for the American market in the US.

True, it will take ages, causing huge delays, and spectacular price hikes. Not to mention they’ll have to import talent from overseas, so immigration will be a big hurdle too.

Oh, and no import of raw materials and resources from Africa. Get your own coltan! And while at it: keep your trash instead of exporting it to third world countries that don’t have waste management systems. No exploiting of other countries anymore by the USA. That’ll a be the day!

The hypocrisy of America First is truly shocking.

Yes, all because random keyboard warriors like to tunnel vision to their death blindly defending a cause they either don’t know the full extent or don’t have any idea what they are talking about. Sure, we need to give people jobs. But I seriously doubt those jobs can easily be filled with random college graduates, even with relevant degree.
I think, this is the world we are living now.

Maybe I just don't understand politics, but it's amazing how many fellow leftists are against the idea of government intervention that encourages manufacturing jobs in a country with better wages and worker rights.

It's amazing how many righties are totally cool with the gov't inhibiting the free market by imposing tariffs. Are we all just inconsistent bastards?

We are, unsurprisingly.

Tariffs are imposed on US companies who in turn raise prices to compensate so it’s hurting us not China. Building it in China and paying the higher tariffs would increase the cost for consumers. Building it in the US would also increase the cost for consumers. It’s a no-win scenario. People keep saying that Apple can afford to do this or that but don’t consider that it is going to cost them more to buy these products. It’s not apple that is going to pay the price in the end. The same goes for any company and any product. No company is going to pay the difference out of the goodness of their hearts, they are going to make up for it somehow.

Though, as other members point out, added cost to an already super expensive product won’t matter that much.

What, exactly, does that have to do with anything? Have you never misspelled anything?

It’s not that Donald trump never misspell anything. It’s that he can literally hire one guy proofreading his tweets before posting it himself, but he keeps misspelling words anyway. If anything, a president of the most powerful country on earth should not treat his speech like we treat the song a random street singer is singing near a railway station.

 

[Vasilioskn]

The current Russian chosen president is a complete moron and we all will have to pay for it.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Why would Tim Apple even think they would be granted a tariff waiver?

It’s because he made a deal with Trump already.

Perhaps you and others could ask yourself a question “ why would you ever think that what Trump says should be taken literally?”

Every time Trump tweets I see people overreacting - I am usually satisfied with the end results from Trump, But I do realize his poker techniques that he uses means he has to exaggerate and fire people up and get people excited. Have you noticed that Trump will call someone names and then later on say he’s my best friend? This is part of the negotiation tactics game that he uses.

I think I have set it here before that Tim Cook and Trump made a deal along time ago relating to repatriation of offshore profits and job creation issues and patriotism issues. Tim Cook and Apple are golden so don’t worry too much about tariffs against Apple. If Trump wants Wisconsin Foxcon factories he knows he has to play ball with Apple.

I have my trump goggles on, and maybe a lot of people could benefit by trying to see what is real behind all of the so-called shocking scandalous tweets and so forth.

 

[fairuz]

Eh, I don't see any reason the USA should make these things. I'm all for tariffs targeting China in particular, but just make the electronics in Vietnam or India instead.
[doublepost=1564196222][/doublepost]

Never sided before with Trump in my life but he's right here. Everyone saying "oh, but the factories don't exist!" - if only Apple had a massive war chest of cash they could use?

Apple aren't special.

Sure they can do it, but why? You know, we're only a wealthy nation if we can trade with poorer nations.
[doublepost=1564196270][/doublepost]

The current Russian chosen president is a complete moron and we all will have to pay for it.

Please, this is like listening to "Obama birthers" all over again.

 

[konqerror]

George H.W. Bush negotiated and signed the NAFTA agreement.

What does NAFTA have to do with China?

 

[LizKat]

It’s because he made a deal with Trump already.

Perhaps you and others could ask yourself a question “ why would you ever think that what Trump says should be taken literally?”

Every time Trump tweets I see people overreacting - I am usually satisfied with the end results from Trump, But I do realize his poker techniques that he uses means he has to exaggerate and fire people up and get people excited. Have you noticed that Trump will call someone names and then later on say he’s my best friend? This is part of the negotiation tactics game that he uses.

I think I have set it here before that Tim Cook and Trump made a deal along time ago relating to repatriation of offshore profits and job creation issues and patriotism issues. Tim Cook and Apple are golden so don’t worry too much about tariffs against Apple. If Trump wants Wisconsin Foxcon factories he knows he has to play ball with Apple.

I have my trump goggles on, and maybe a lot of people could benefit by trying to see what is real behind all of the so-called shocking scandalous tweets and so forth.

I don't need goggles or even my reading glasses to see that the real Donald Trump lacks the character and competence to run the executive branch of the US government. Thanks to his requirement for personal loyalty above competence and merit, and the assorted separate agendas of some of his appointments, Trump's record on agency management is shockingly bad and the damage will take decades to repair if even possible in some cases.

It's not just about Turmp's tweets. It's about his behavior and track record, his attempts to discredit a free and independent press, his total disregard for decorum of our highest elective office, disregard for legal or traditional constraints on his powers. It's about his and some of his appointees' kleptocratic moves within the agencies, about the rule changes and legislation focused on benefit to the already wealthy, to management over labor, to profits over consumer protections including health and financial matters, to the oil and gas industry over clean air and water and better development of renewable energy. The guy is a disgrace and so is his administration. His trade policies will be the death of the economy yet.

 

[Bawstun]

Such is the ignorance of a large section of the American public, having no ideas of how the world and domestic economy works. Globalisation was pushed by the US for decades and massively benefited the US. Right now, US has climbed the economic food chain and can not return to its old state unless there's a revolution and crash the economy. Manufacturing jobs won't return to the US unless the cost of employment is at least halved, completely unpalatable for the US public and expecting to achieve such is but ignorance and wishful thinking. The world's manufacturing supply chain has long left the US and even China has been climbing and off-loading lower value manufacturing to developing countries. Looking from the outside, what Trump and his supporters are trying to do is but shooting itself in the foot as for those Brexiters. In due course, they'll crash the vibrancy of their economies by artificially binding their major corporations, losing international competitiveness. With these domestic attitudes and policies, Apple and other major US corporations will start to decline and the real suffering will be America. So dumb!

Under President Trump, US manufacturing jobs have hit their highest recorded level in the past 30 years.
[doublepost=1564199910][/doublepost]

Such is the ignorance of a large section of the American public, having no ideas of how the world and domestic economy works. Globalisation was pushed by the US for decades and massively benefited the US. Right now, US has climbed the economic food chain and can not return to its old state unless there's a revolution and crash the economy. Manufacturing jobs won't return to the US unless the cost of employment is at least halved, completely unpalatable for the US public and expecting to achieve such is but ignorance and wishful thinking. The world's manufacturing supply chain has long left the US and even China has been climbing and off-loading lower value manufacturing to developing countries. Looking from the outside, what Trump and his supporters are trying to do is but shooting itself in the foot as for those Brexiters. In due course, they'll crash the vibrancy of their economies by artificially binding their major corporations, losing international competitiveness. With these domestic attitudes and policies, Apple and other major US corporations will start to decline and the real suffering will be America. So dumb!

Manufacturing employment in the U.S. is at the same level as 69 years ago

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/m...-at-the-same-level-of-69-years-ago-2019-01-04
[doublepost=1564200002][/doublepost]

I don't need goggles or even my reading glasses to see that the real Donald Trump lacks the character and competence to run the executive branch of the US government. Thanks to his requirement for personal loyalty above competence and merit, and the assorted separate agendas of some of his appointments, Trump's record on agency management is shockingly bad and the damage will take decades to repair if even possible in some cases.

It's not just about Turmp's tweets. It's about his behavior and track record, his attempts to discredit a free and independent press, his total disregard for decorum of our highest elective office, disregard for legal or traditional constraints on his powers. It's about his and some of his appointees' kleptocratic moves within the agencies, about the rule changes and legislation focused on benefit to the already wealthy, to management over labor, to profits over consumer protections including health and financial matters, to the oil and gas industry over clean air and water and better development of renewable energy. The guy is a disgrace and so is his administration. His trade policies will be the death of the economy yet.

So much personal bias and misinformation in this I’m almost not sure where to start. Probably best not to, really. Trump Derangement Syndrome is very real.

 

[citysnaps]

That's BS. Apple has been the most valuable company in the world for the better part of the past decade and are still top 3. They built the trash can here, surely they can figure out the box designed Mac Pro.

Would it cost them margin and ROI to build it here at the same price? Sure. Probably a lot. But this concept that it can't be done.....I don't buy it.

Apple will simply increase Mac Pro’s price by the tariff amount.

 

[LizKat]

Under President Trump, US manufacturing jobs have hit their highest recorded level in the past 30 years.


Manufacturing employment in the U.S. is at the same level as 69 years ago

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/manufacturing-employment-in-the-us-is-at-the-same-level-of-69-years-ago-2019-01-04

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/m...-at-the-same-level-of-69-years-ago-2019-01-04


Do you even read the stuff you cite?

Baumohl said companies have come to the conclusion that the likely 3% growth the U.S. enjoyed last year was a “sugar high.”

With reduced expectations for growth — even with the new incentives to write off depreciation in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act — CEOs have concluded it’s better to meet the additional growth opportunities with new workers than pricier machines.

“Workers are viewed more like inventory,” he says. “If you need them, you can hire them, and if the economy really turns south, you can let them go.”

“CEO have taken a very realistic approach,” he said.

Furthermore, companies already are carrying a record amount of debt, all at a time when interest rates are rising.
​

A very realistic approach. Isn't that special.

Well. We can certainly see why Trump's been leaning on the Fed to drop interest rates more than they want to. He doesn't GAF about inflation risks, he just wants to keep the debt from causing some of those BrightShiny figures to collapse and force them to dial up the venture capitalists to pick over the bones, refurbish the skeletons, fatten them up with new debt and try to flip them before this circus comes to its natural end.

New flash: the "very realistic" approach mentioned above now means jobs can evaporate here as fast as they used to evaporate in China when business conditions went south during the crash 12 years ago. How fast is that? Overnight.

As for workers being treated like so many stacks of plywood or sheet rock, I've been posting about that for years now. Workers are just a cost of doing business and subject to all the cuts anyone can think up.

Let's see... be sure to wash your spinach or kale even if it says triple washed on the package. Maybe they haven't got around to changing the packaging yet but it's a quick rinse now and into the truck? And the truck is cleaned how often? Well whaddya want for one guy and 80 trucks? VERY REALISTIC. Dystopia coming to a farm field near you real soon now. ​

And, the GOP continues to try to stomp out unions so there are fewer then ever protections against arbitrary shop closings on short notice. New regime: agree to arbitration upon employment, take the severance and short notice upon dismissal, don't let door catch you in the wallet.

Bottom line the tariff on the Mac Pro is counter-intuitive and counterproductive but it's not top of the list the Trumpian economy is looking at. We got bigger and globally systemic problems. Disrupting supply chains all over the world because Trump's "negotiating" is a net negative factor. Ask publicly traded firms who do a global business.

 

[lec0rsaire]

The hell with this clown. We need to vote him out next year. Premium electronics are expensive enough as is and the damage to blue collar workers is already done. Thatcher, Reagan and Friedman decimated the working and middle class by cutting taxes and allowing corporations to ship jobs abroad to low-wage countries. The people are still suffering from neoliberalism over 3 decades later. Tariffs here and there will not change this reality.

Many in the government complain that China is too successful and too powerful. Well guess what? It’s our government’s fault! They were so overzealous about eradicating communism that they couldn’t foresee a nation of over a billion people eventually taking a huge share of global wealth and taking over as the world’s strongest superpower. They also believed China would embrace democracy naturally as a result of capitalism. Again they were wrong! Authoritarian capitalism has proven to be a wildly successful. While our working and middle classes are poorer, China now has a thriving middle class that is getting wealthier every year.

The only reason America hasn’t collapsed yet is because of our huge military and the petrodollar, securing the dollar’s place as the most important reserve currency. The problem is that we cannot sustain this level of defense spending forever. We have a huge debt that is only going to get worse as time goes on. China hasn’t wasted money on perpetual regime change adventures and once they smell blood, the sleeping dragon will emerge.

While we choose to obtain influence by coercion and war, China does it through unconditional loans and building infrastructure. Machiavelli said it is better to feared rather than loved, if you cannot be both and I agree with this. While America is feared, China will manage to be both feared and loved.

 

[Gasu E.]

Apple kind of set themselves up for this with the previous Mac Pro being assembled in the U.S. They set a precedent.

And that effort failed... for lack of suppliers who could deliver sufficient quantities of mundane things like screws. Google it.

 

[zv470]

How about hire Americans at Mar a Lago.

 

[DougFNJ]

You spelled "ruining" wrong.

 

[Gasu E.]

For "cheap" stuff, I fully understand companies wanting to out-source production. items $100-$1000 may save a significant percentage of their manufacturing costs by building them elsewhere.

But for "expensive" stuff like the Mac Pro, which can easily cost over $10,000, what percentage of that is saved by out-sourcing the work?

Actually, simple cost of parts and labor isn't the primary issue. It's the ability to do just in time manufacturing in order to fulfill customer orders in a timely manner without a huge amount of work-in-progress inventory and idle factory time. If a manufacturing line is not operating efficiently, overhead costs cannot be absorbed; and overhead costs, rather than marginal costs such as parts and labor, dominate. What Apple found in trying to build thei previous MacPro in Austin was that it was impossible to find US sources for seemingly mundane things such as custom screws in the quantities Apple needed them. I suppose you could blame Apple for this, in that they might have invested millions in building their own high volume machine shops just to supply custom screws in the quantities they needed; but that would have required a lot of foresight, and change of strategy, for a company whose financial success has depended on outsourced manufacturing (and no, "outsourcing" does not mean the same thing as "offshoring").
[doublepost=1564205621][/doublepost]

If you get rid of all the jobs, who will buy their stuff?

Sorry to tell ya: low-level manufacturing jobs are gone and not coming back. If they leave China, they will move to Mexico and Vietnam. If manufacturing comes back to the USA, robots will do them. But yes, you will need a few people to maintain the robots.

 

[Admiral]

People need to accept this and educate people into roles where this country can be successful and be the best in the world.

But as long as we're educating and training people, why can't we educate and train them to manufacture things?

 

[User 6502]

But as long as we're educating and training people, why can't we educate and train them to manufacture things?

Because you can’t compete with China in manufacturing, unless Americans are willing to be paid 50 cents per hour or something like that.

 

[UKgaryb]

But as long as we're educating and training people, why can't we educate and train them to manufacture things?

People in the USA need to realise that a large portion of apples sales come from outside of the USA, no one cares (apart from Americans) if they are made in America or China, moving to America will increase the price due to the cost of labour, for already eye watering priced products.

 

[User 6502]

To be honest I disagree with Trump on pretty much everything but this is one where I can get on board. Start making things in America goddamnit and stop expecting to get around the system and get waiver exemptions and stuff.

Do you also agree to pay things twice as much (or maybe 3-4 times as much)?

 

[CptnJustc]

Under President Trump, US manufacturing jobs have hit their highest recorded level in the past 30 years.

This is not even close to true.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MANEMP
[doublepost=1564219314][/doublepost]

Because you can’t compete with China in manufacturing, unless Americans are willing to be paid 50 cents per hour or something like that.

Even then, the U.S. simply doesn't have the scale to put up against China's many supply chain advantages, which include plentiful trade with even-lower-cost producers in the region (despite their huge trade surplus with the U.S., their net trade surplus is relatively small).

 

[Delgibbons]

In a tweet, U.S. President Donald Trump has said that Apple will not be granted tariff exemptions or relief on Mac Pro parts made in China.

​

Earlier this month, Apple requested the Trump administration to exclude components for the new Mac Pro and various accessories like the Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad from being subject to a 25 percent tariff on Chinese imports, according to filings with the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative.

In all of its exclusion requests, Apple indicated that "there are no other sources for this proprietary, Apple-designed component."

The new Mac Pro will be assembled in China by contract manufacturer Quanta Computer, according to The Wall Street Journal. The current Mac Pro, released in 2013, has been assembled in Texas since its release and is Apple's only major hardware product manufactured in the United States.

Last month, an Apple spokesperson said "final assembly is only one part of the manufacturing process," adding that the new Mac Pro is designed and engineered in the United States and includes some U.S.-made components.

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Donald Trump Says Apple Won't Be Granted Tariff Relief on Mac Pro Parts Made in China: 'Make Them in The USA, No Tariffs!'

Looking forward to Apple adding tariff and then some to the price. New Mac Pro starts from 100,000 dollars, Monitor Stand from 4000 dollars
[doublepost=1564221640][/doublepost]Strange.... Seems the tariffs don't apply to Trump merchandise

https://forward.com/schmooze/405039...nt-touch-ivankas-fashion-line-how-convenient/