Done with Macs

[leman]

I'm less optimistic about seeing the price being reduced, I don't think its a coincidence that Apple reported shrinking profits a couple of days ago, and we now see more expensive Macs.

When the retina MBP was first introduced, it also started at $2200, which was a fairly ridiculous price point. It shrunk down with time. And its not surprising that Apple's profits are shrinking as the market is absolutely oversaturated. What goes up has to go down at some point I don't think this has anything to do with the MBP prices.

 

[Stingray454]

When the retina MBP was first introduced, it also started at $2200, which was a fairly ridiculous price point.

True, but in my personal opinion, going from a "standard" resolution to retina is way more useful and a bigger upgrade than the OLED bar. I mean I get that it adds to the price with the extra screen and all the new tech development, but the rMBP was more justified for the higher price than this is.

 

[Euro_Guy]

Yes, but thats a low-powered (15W) models. They are slower than the Skylake used for the 13" MBP.
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As far as I have been able to see, the non-touchbar MBP 13 uses a 15w processor, whereas only the more expensive MBP 13 w/ touchbar uses the 28w processor.

 

[Hyloba]

I don't want to say I'm done with Apple, but I think in a sense, Apple is done with me. I've always prescribed by the philosophy that I pick the right tool for the job, I don't buy just because of the fruit logo, though I've been a loyal customer because I got a great computer, albeit for a premium price.

Now, I see that I'm getting less for more money, and that bothers me. I like the touchbar, I think that can be something that would be useful, though I don't think that should have been the major upgrade to the MBP, it should have played a backup roll to more pronounced changes - just my $.02

We get a thinner laptop, with less ports, a current CPU, and the touchbar, oh and a keyboard, I'm not really jazzed up about. All for over 2400 for the 15" and close to 2k for the 13"

I'd say Apple is positioning the MBP that is counter to my needs at a price point, I'm simply unwilling to pay.

I have a 2012 MBP, I think I'll be looking to replace the battery so it will last me longer, and I have a Surface Book laptop that I got for around 1200 which has everything I need, such as a SD card port and a good keyboard

You strike me as a calm, profoundly wise man. I truly enjoy reading your honest posts and thoughts, a big difference compared to the volatile babbling of other members.

 

[timothevs]

You strike me as a calm, profoundly wise man. I truly enjoy reading your honest posts and thoughts, a big difference compared to the volatile babbling of other members.

Thank you for expressing that. MaFlynn's posts are a welcome change from the frothing-at-the-mouth posts one usually sees here.

But that said, we are all here because we love Apple, and want to see it go from strength to strength. Innovation is at the core of their ethos, or so one is led to believe. And yet when with each passing year, we see nothing really innovative come out of Cupertino, and certain product lines completely ignored (which got them the legion of believers in the first place), and when one sees Redmond innovating as Apple once did... one does tend to wonder and get upset.

I, for my part, am ambivalent towards the MBP. I don't feel I am qualified to comment here as I never considered buying a MacBook Pro in the first place, and nothing that came out of Cupertino yesterday changed that decision (although a little part of me had hoped it would). But I do worry, that this trend will continue.

Like everyone here, I am quite vested in the Apple ecosystem. I have been using OS X since 10.2, and barring Sierra, I've upgraded the first day a new OS came out. Leaving the Apple ecosystem is well nigh unthinkable for me, but should this trend from Cupertino continue, and should my 5k iMac and Mac Pro server kick the bucket, I don't think I could make a case to return to Apple.

As MaFlynn said, I am not done with Apple, it seems like Apple is done with me. I feel a sense of loss. </morose>

 

[Barrierfreeman]

Amongst all the hyperbole being flung around the web at the moment, I think what maflynn says is how I feel. It's not a case of me being done with Apple, because if the prices hadn't gone nuts, then I would have put in an order. It's more the case that someone at Apple has made a conscious decision that they do not want me as a customer. Which is fine, they are more than entitled to do that.

Just a shame is all. But I assume there are enough people out there who want an even thinner, less connected and expensive laptop to warrant their decision.

As an aside, it does amuse me how we have nearly come full circle with MS and Apple, tho. I reckon if MS did a Think Different style advert about now it wouldn't even raise any eyebrows.

 

[Tommo66]

Thank you for expressing that. MaFlynn's posts are a welcome change from the frothing-at-the-mouth posts one usually sees here.

But that said, we are all here because we love Apple, and want to see it go from strength to strength. Innovation is at the core of their ethos, or so one is led to believe. And yet when with each passing year, we see nothing really innovative come out of Cupertino, and certain product lines completely ignored (which got them the legion of believers in the first place), and when one sees Redmond innovating as Apple once did... one does tend to wonder and get upset.

I, for my part, am ambivalent towards the MBP. I don't feel I am qualified to comment here as I never considered buying a MacBook Pro in the first place, and nothing that came out of Cupertino yesterday changed that decision (although a little part of me had hoped it would). But I do worry, that this trend will continue.

Like everyone here, I am quite vested in the Apple ecosystem. I have been using OS X since 10.2, and barring Sierra, I've upgraded the first day a new OS came out. Leaving the Apple ecosystem is well nigh unthinkable for me, but should this trend from Cupertino continue, and should my 5k iMac and Mac Pro server kick the bucket, I don't think I could make a case to return to Apple.

As MaFlynn said, I am not done with Apple, it seems like Apple is done with me. I feel a sense of loss. </morose>

But this leads to the question what innovations are you all expecting. The laptop form factor has been the same for nearly a decade, there have been improvements to almost all of the components, but nothing has drastically altered it's functionality and I can't think of what would Touchbar included.

The new Microsoft offerings are not particularly innovative either, touch screen systems have been around before. It is more the fact they run the same version of Windows across all devices which differ them from say the iPad Pro. As for the Surface Studio that strikes me as a very niche market for designers and artists only and am I the only one to notice most photos of it miss out the silver box at the base which to me spoils the effect.

Yes these systems are expensive, but they always have been relative to other computer manufacturers. I don't understand why people would feel they will get an upgraded product for the same cost as the previous version or that price increases are due to profiteering. Maybe these things are more expensive to make, unfortunately living in the UK we are going to have to get used to everything costing us more.

 

[Starfyre]

Despite the complains about price, the form factor is really important. If Apple was able to reduce it to 3.5 pounds, I think that would be a good justification for the cost from my perspective.

 

[teohyc]

What's a good pc laptop? I never even look

Dell Precision or the HP Zbook
- Xeon processor
- 32 GB RAM
- 1 or 2 SSD
- USB 3 Ports
- Thunderbolt Port USB Type C
- HDMI
- SD Card slot
- 4K 100% Adobe RGB screen
- Quadro graphics card
- Released late 2015
- 2kg

The only downside is the battery life at 6 hours even when you upgrade the battery.

 

[Starfyre]

That Surface Book update is REALLY good. That 965M in that form factor with 16 hour battery is top of the line. (even though it uses 2015 Skylake processors, but hey, Macbook Pro does too)

 

[Ma2k5]

When the retina MBP was first introduced, it also started at $2200, which was a fairly ridiculous price point. It shrunk down with time. And its not surprising that Apple's profits are shrinking as the market is absolutely oversaturated. What goes up has to go down at some point I don't think this has anything to do with the MBP prices.

It probably used the best CPU/GPU etc available for that form factor at the time, so it was more justified. It probably improved so many facets from the previous with minimal downsides.

The new ones have much to be desired, from CPU, GPU, the battery capacity being reduced 25% from previous models, unusually large touch pad, screen hasn't really had a proper upgrade etc.

I think if the Macbook had everything which people expected, the complaints would have not been as bad. If they increased resolution of screen, kept battery the same, 32gb RAM option, 6870 instead of 6820 CPU, not require you to pay extra for a Pro 460 GPU - people would have swallowed it all better.

 

[irishgrizzly]

I'd love to keep using Macs, but it won't be possible to use this machine for my work. Sad after using them for 20 years.

 

[CreativeC]

That Surface Book update is REALLY good. That 965M in that form factor with 16 hour battery is top of the line. (even though it uses 2015 Skylake processors, but hey, Macbook Pro does too)

My only problem with it is the 16 Gb of ram

 

[timothevs]

But this leads to the question what innovations are you all expecting. The laptop form factor has been the same for nearly a decade, there have been improvements to almost all of the components, but nothing has drastically altered it's functionality and I can't think of what would Touchbar included.

The new Microsoft offerings are not particularly innovative either, touch screen systems have been around before. It is more the fact they run the same version of Windows across all devices which differ them from say the iPad Pro. As for the Surface Studio that strikes me as a very niche market for designers and artists only and am I the only one to notice most photos of it miss out the silver box at the base which to me spoils the effect.

It is hard to innovate in an already established category, but our dear friend SJ found a way. MacBook Air was derided when it first was introduced, and yet the adoption was through the roof, because that form factor appealed to one and all. And although one could be tempted to make the same argument about the new MBP, but the problem with that is that with the introduction of the MBA, we still got our complement of ports, SD card reader, etc, and furthermore, there was the "Pro" line that never got streamlined. That spectrum of choice is slowly being taken away from us.

However, the innovation I referred to, back in my OP, didn't all have to do with just the Laptop form factor. For instance, Microsoft is leading from the front when it comes to VR. One need only try their Hololens to see that the future is in VR. That's not even taking into consideration their fantastic Surface line.

 

[AustinIllini]

My $1200 Dell XPS 15 comes with the following

i7 Skylake
512GB SSD
16GB RAM
4k UHD
NVidia GTX960 Graphics
Edge to Edge display


The same configuration for Apple's new Macbook is $2800.


Have fun with your overpriced Macbook.

Runs Windows. Dealbreaker.

 

[BigDO]

Runs Windows. Dealbreaker.

Windows 10 is great. Far from a dealbreaker. With the mess that MacOS is becoming, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Ghost31]

Runs Windows. Dealbreaker.

When was the last time you used windows?

 

[someoldguy]

I’m in with @maflynn in that Apple’s leaving me , not the other way around . The only Apple products I own are computers and iPods . iPods are essentially gone , there’s no desktops I’m interested in , or have been interested in for the last few years , just compromised sealed up boxes , I’m slowly transitioning from a 2011 mini and 2009(?) 24” imac to an HP small form factor z series workstation .

A couple of weeks back one of my laptops , a 2010 15” MBP finally became unstable and up for replacement . My needs in a replacement were : 2 or more USB A ports , Magsafe , SD card reader , decent display (16:10 matte preferable) , backlit keyboard , decent battery life . I was down to choosing between an HP Z-book or Elitebook 850 , or an rMBP . Knowing that a refresh was coming to the rMBP , and reading all the prognostications , I sprang for a (very) lightly used late 2013 that came my way . Glad I did considering what appeared . No usable ports for me without a dongle , Magsafe’s gone , no SD card reader ….. but it’s thinner ,has a dead feeling ( to my fingers) butterfly keyboard and it’s got an ‘emoji bar’ . So now there’s no Macbook I’ve an interest in . (I’ve got a 2011 13” MBA as a travel machine that I’m hanging on to until it’s dead) It’s just tablets , phones , and trinkets .

 

[Barrierfreeman]

When was the last time you used windows?

Assuming they ever did

 

[serkan]

I have been an Apple eco system guy for a long time as well. Early 2011 MBP w/ SSD upgrade and various iPhone (6S )and IPad along side, I changed y fiancé over the years too. (2015 MBP, iPhone 6)

I am not stating that I am moving along from Apple but I am open to suggestions which is not very good for Apple.

Before the MacBook event, I wasn't even open to any suggestion out of Apple but now even searching another one and discovering what's out there gives me the buzz. However, I don't see myself changing my oldie yet.

For example, when I looked at the keynotes over the years, I was waiting the keynote to happen and nearly " wowed" in every bit. This time, I haven't even paying attention because touching my safari tabs and sending poop emoji's to my friends by touching didn't give me the vibe.

I know it will not make sense but look a the MSOFT latest desktop. When I watch their reveal, I was like " WOWWW, that's cool. Feels like Iron Man." Aren't we deserve to see technologies that changes our way of living ? Not way of sending emoji's ?

 

[AustinIllini]

When was the last time you used windows?

Every. Single. Day. It's below trash. It's a deal breaker in the world of computers.

 

[judahde]

I'm stuck. I purchased a Samsung Note 7 and of course had to return it. So, I traded it in for an iPhone 7 Plus, putting me squarely back in the Apple Ecosystem. Have an iMac 5K and a 2015 Macbook (as well as iPhone 7+ & iPad Pro 12.9). I do like the shared notes, iMessage and everything just working between the various devices.

Business partner needs a new laptop so I was going to give him the Macbook and trade up.

Ordered the Macbook Pro 13 i7 16GB ram w 512GB drive $2349.

But, then I got to thinking about it and I just don't see the value in spending that kind of money on the upgrade. I already have a nice desktop and the Macbook really does everything I need it to do. There's about a $500 premium if I match the specs as closely as possible between the Macbook and the MBP 13 (m7 vs i7, 8GB ram & 512GB HD). $1664 vs $2161.

That's a lot of clams to give up and it wasn't like I was ohhhh I have to have this!!

Had a Surface Pro 3 & 4. Liked the units but they were stand-alone, not like the Apple ecosystem. Sure I could use Google Docs, etc but there is a difference.

Decisions, decisions. As my wife would say "rich, first-world problems".

 

[MattSeven]

When was the last time you used windows?

In between reading these forums and hearing about how much better things are for Windows, I had to use a Windows desktop at work. I walk over to the machine and within 2 minutes it is frozen. I have to hit Task Manager and restart apps, losing the progress I was making in what I was doing.

I've been using Microsoft OS since 1995. Nothing has changed about my user experience in that time. Hearing "But Windows 10 is so good" is just hollow, now. Maybe it is. Maybe when the MBP I just ordered is ready for retirement, MS will have earned some trust. But not while I'm still unfreezing their crap at work.

 

[tubeexperience]

Again, as a cutting end tech comparison, look at the new MS Surface. Its slower than the new Macs, with worse specs, and yet its more expensive. Cutting edge costs money people. If you don't need it, thats ok. But I just don't understand this complaining about Apple being behind, and then if they are not behind anymore, then suddenly its ridiculous because its apparently too expensive.

$1350 for Surface Book doesn't seem that bad considering that it has a detachable display with touch and pen.
[doublepost=1477683013][/doublepost]

Like what? Razer blade? 3 hours battery, really? Dell XPS 15? That is certainly a decent "budget" version of the MBP, but the specs are significantly worse. Then there is the new MB Surfacebook, which starts at $2400 or so for a 256GB model. Sorry, I just don't see your point.

Bot sure what you mean by the Dell XPS 15 is a "budget" version. It has great specs.

Also, Surface Book starts at $1350, not $2400.

 

[foxconn]

they would make more money if the price was lower, but no they're being greedy