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Timepass said:
You even said so your self that you where going to have you sister use it and then have her hide it so you could use it (BIG NO NO).

I didn't say that. I didn't even have her hide it. I let her use it so I would know where it was. I wasn't even going to use it. When I found where he hid it I didn't use it and I was home alone. I figured since my sister would be using it he would let her do so and I wouldn't have to worry about where he put it at. My sister doesn't have a computer so yea. She's only 7. I said she ratted me out because she did. She ratted me out that I was looking for it and I found it. I wanted her to say that she found it and was wondering if she could use it since I couldn't. I had no plans of using it until he would have given it back. Once again, when I found it I didn't use it. I could have, but I didn't.

Also. I didn't ask for anyone to take my side. So what if you all think I screwed up. I just wanted to know if I could find it.
 
Hummer said:
I didn't say that. I didn't even have her hide it. I let her use it so I would know where it was. I wasn't even going to use it. When I found where he hid it I didn't use it and I was home alone. I figured since my sister would be using it he would let her do so and I wouldn't have to worry about where he put it at. My sister doesn't have a computer so yea. She's only 7. I said she ratted me out because she did. She ratted me out that I was looking for it and I found it. I wanted her to say that she found it and was wondering if she could use it since I couldn't. I had no plans of using it until he would have given it back. Once again, when I found it I didn't use it. I could have, but I didn't.

Also. I didn't ask for anyone to take my side. So what if you all think I screwed up. I just wanted to know if I could find it.


So you just wanted to know where it was? :rolleyes:

I have a hard time believing that you never intended to use it.
 
Hummer said:
The thing is I usually do what my parents ask of me. This time I just made a suggestion and without being turned down I was punished. I didn't see him talk out anything with me. I brought up a suggestion and I thought he would be okay with it since it wasn't so farfetched and I actually thought it was a good idea. He didn't say no, he didn't say yes.

He got my mom involved. He called her on the phone and had her talk to me.

Hmm...then there is probably an underlying problem, either with the way you interact with your dad or maybe just how he feels you interact with him.

He obviously felt that you weren't being cooperative, since he called your mom. This means he feels he has problems effectively getting you to do things. I'm not saying that you don't usually do things, but that for some reason (like, maybe his instructions aren't clear enough, or something) his expectations and the results you generate are not the same.

It seems clear from the thread that you are closer to your mom than your dad, so the best way to get past this is probably to try and bridge that gap somehow.

And (I know this goes against my previous post), you might try talking to your mother about why she thinks this happened. Ask her about what might have made your father act like this, like job stress...also ask her if she knows how your father feels about the relationship you have with him.

In the end, it's mainly about being able to see his perspective and what is driving that perspective, then you'll understand him better and if a situation comes up like this, you might be smart enough to detect it...you'll be able to say to yourself "today is not dad's best day, he's stressed out from working hard, he's probably not in the mood to listen to suggestions, so I'll just do what he wants and try to make the best of it"

Good luck.
 
Hummer said:
I didn't say that. I didn't even have her hide it. I let her use it so I would know where it was. I wasn't even going to use it. When I found where he hid it I didn't use it and I was home alone. I figured since my sister would be using it he would let her do so and I wouldn't have to worry about where he put it at. My sister doesn't have a computer so yea. She's only 7. I said she ratted me out because she did. She ratted me out that I was looking for it and I found it. I wanted her to say that she found it and was wondering if she could use it since I couldn't. I had no plans of using it until he would have given it back. Once again, when I found it I didn't use it. I could have, but I didn't.

Also. I didn't ask for anyone to take my side. So what if you all think I screwed up. I just wanted to know if I could find it.

You want a quick answer? No, you can't find it. There, finished.

About the situation with your sister, either way you undermined your dad and it's wrong. I'm sure your dad has it in a safe place and he would not harm it.
 
I'm sorry but a lot of people's views on this forum is that taking the iBook away is a punishment.

It's not quit like that you see, if my dad takes something away from me (which he doesn't, they don't do that), then how am I going to be able to respect him? He is in a way no better than the people who nick my trainers at school without me asking.

The way to get people to respect you is to respect them. If I came round to your house and nicked your iBook, PowerBook or MacBook because you said your opinion or something I don't agree with, then would you respect me?

No no no, give others what you want in return. If my dad took something from me, then he could expect me to take something from me. We live in a household where people generally respect everyone else. It works pretty well and although my parents get mad at me for some things, it works well. If my parents ask me to do something, then I'll do it because I know that if I ask them for something, then they do it.

Most people have a very old-fashioned view on punishment.
 
Hummer said:
I didn't say that. I didn't even have her hide it. I let her use it so I would know where it was. I wasn't even going to use it. When I found where he hid it I didn't use it and I was home alone. I figured since my sister would be using it he would let her do so and I wouldn't have to worry about where he put it at. My sister doesn't have a computer so yea. She's only 7. I said she ratted me out because she did. She ratted me out that I was looking for it and I found it. I wanted her to say that she found it and was wondering if she could use it since I couldn't. I had no plans of using it until he would have given it back. Once again, when I found it I didn't use it. I could have, but I didn't.

Also. I didn't ask for anyone to take my side. So what if you all think I screwed up. I just wanted to know if I could find it.
Yeah good work, trying to get a 7 year old to lie for you..
 
Killyp said:
I'm sorry but a lot of people's views on this forum is that taking the iBook away is a punishment.

It's not quit like that you see, if my dad takes something away from me (which he doesn't, they don't do that), then how am I going to be able to respect him? He is in a way no better than the people who nick my trainers at school without me asking.

The way to get people to respect you is to respect them. If I came round to your house and nicked your iBook, PowerBook or MacBook because you said your opinion or something I don't agree with, then would you respect me?

No no no, give others what you want in return. If my dad took something from me, then he could expect me to take something from me. We live in a household where people generally respect everyone else. It works pretty well and although my parents get mad at me for some things, it works well. If my parents ask me to do something, then I'll do it because I know that if I ask them for something, then they do it.

Most people have a very old-fashioned view on punishment.
So why did he take it away then?
obviously you haven't learned the lesson yet. Your dad HAS AUTHORITY OVER YOU!
 
TheAnswer said:
Hmm...then there is probably an underlying problem, either with the way you interact with your dad or maybe just how he feels you interact with him.

He obviously felt that you weren't being cooperative, since he called your mom. This means he feels he has problems effectively getting you to do things. I'm not saying that you don't usually do things, but that for some reason (like, maybe his instructions aren't clear enough, or something) his expectations and the results you generate are not the same.

It seems clear from the thread that you are closer to your mom than your dad, so the best way to get past this is probably to try and bridge that gap somehow.

And (I know this goes against my previous post), you might try talking to your mother about why she thinks this happened. Ask her about what might have made your father act like this, like job stress...also ask her if she knows how your father feels about the relationship you have with him.

In the end, it's mainly about being able to see his perspective and what is driving that perspective, then you'll understand him better and if a situation comes up like this, you might be smart enough to detect it...you'll be able to say to yourself "today is not dad's best day, he's stressed out from working hard, he's probably not in the mood to listen to suggestions, so I'll just do what he wants and try to make the best of it"

Good luck.

Thanks,

My dad has a temper though, my mom told me. I know he always holds things in. But when he vents he does vent. And when he took my ibook and whooped my ass that was a form of venting.
 
Killyp said:
I'm sorry but a lot of people's views on this forum is that taking the iBook away is a punishment.

It's not quit like that you see, if my dad takes something away from me (which he doesn't, they don't do that), then how am I going to be able to respect him? He is in a way no better than the people who nick my trainers at school without me asking.

The way to get people to respect you is to respect them. If I came round to your house and nicked your iBook, PowerBook or MacBook because you said your opinion or something I don't agree with, then would you respect me?

No no no, give others what you want in return. If my dad took something from me, then he could expect me to take something from me. We live in a household where people generally respect everyone else. It works pretty well and although my parents get mad at me for some things, it works well. If my parents ask me to do something, then I'll do it because I know that if I ask them for something, then they do it.

Most people have a very old-fashioned view on punishment.

Hummer disrespected his dad by not obeying him, so his dad took something away. It's not an issue of the parent not respecting a kid, it's an issue of the kid not respecting the parent.

And if you ask me, taking away something the kid values is very respectful. It's teaching him a valuable life lesson: do something bad and you pay for it. If you never punish your kid and he does something and winds up in jail because you never taught him a thing about consequences, well, that's not very respectful, is it?
 
yg17 said:
Hummer disrespected his dad by not obeying him, so his dad took something away. It's not an issue of the parent not respecting a kid, it's an issue of the kid not respecting the parent.

And if you ask me, taking away something the kid values is very respectful. It's teaching him a valuable life lesson: do something bad and you pay for it. If you never punish your kid and he does something and winds up in jail because you never taught him a thing about consequences, well, that's not very respectful, is it?

You have to understand. I didn't disrespect him until he pissed me off. I just made that one suggestion in a respectful way. He didn't even reply to it and he comes at me taking the iBook before I did anything else. Basically he took it when I did nothing at all. I literally did nothing at all. I don't know how making a suggestion could be put against as me as disrespectful. Usually when I make suggestions they don't cause the person to bust in a room, throw a chair, and take stuff from me.
 
Hummer said:
Also. I didn't ask for anyone to take my side. So what if you all think I screwed up. I just wanted to know if I could find it.

I think you are missing the bigger picture...this is a mac forum, so we all have something is common. Believe it or not, most of these posts are trying to make your life easier. We all have different perspectives on the situation, but in general we are all trying to help.
 
You're 15. You live at home. Your parents work to put a roof over your head, feed you, clothe you, provide healthcare and ensure you get an education. Good for you on working to earn some cash to buy your Macbook but bear in mind, that it's because they provide other necessities, that you can afford to buy yourself luxuries.

While you live in your parents' home, you are their dependent and what they says goes, irregardless of how unfair you think it is. When you move out and are supporting yourself, then your say goes. Most parents are pretty reasonable and there's a heck of a lot of give and take that goes on that you might be unaware of. It sounds like your dad was prepared to watch your kid sister in the park in the heat for some of the time - and if you have a reputation for not showing up, then it's no wonder he wanted to make sure you were there rather than leave a 7 year old alone or be late for his appointment rather than let you stay in bed for an extra 30 minutes.

Trying to be smart by finding it or hiding his stuff, is a route to disaster. You'll find yourself grounded and missing more items. Grow up, apologise and you might get it back quicker. Oh, and don't use the 'I wanted to keep it safe line' - the only way your Dad would consider damaging a thousand dollar computer is if you piss him off enough and that would likely take him another step down that path.
 
Hummer said:
My dad has a temper though, my mom told me. I know he always holds things in. But when he vents he does vent. And when he took my ibook and whooped my ass that was a form of venting...

For the short term then, you have to be able to spot the times when even a suggestion will tick him off. It might take some training, but usually people that hold things in have signs as to their anger level. Of course these are even harder to spot when you've just been woken up.

Hummer said:
You have to understand. I didn't disrespect him until he pissed me off.

Somehow I think you probably should have known that disrespecting wasn't going to help the situation, but you reacted because you were angry. You were probably angry because you were afraid that you were going to loose two hours sitting in the sun, but in the end you ended up loosing more than that (just think of all the hours you've lost looking for the laptop and reading these posts!)

The thing to realize (yourself and hopefully your father will realize it soon or later too) is that anger doesn't really solve anything. It's usually just a big waste of time and energy, even when it seems to work short term, it fails long term because it generate negative feelings in others and you have to keep escalating to get the same results. And when you do achieve something through anger, you also end up wasting time wondering and fearing that someone will use their anger against you to achieve something. Unfortunately this is how most of the world goes around functioning. :confused:
 
Hummer said:
Basically he took it when I did nothing at all. I literally did nothing at all.

So, let me play teacher for a minute.

Here's the deal. I don't mean to stereotype, but a basic study of adolescent psychology shows that Western teenagers are overwhelmingly concerned with issues of "fairness" and "justice." Your quote above shows that you feel you've been treated unfairly.

But from your father's perspective, do you suppose this is an issue of fairness? Whether you agree with his actions or not, you're not going to make any progress toward solving this problem, or any larger problems the two of you may have, until you answer this question:

How does my father feel? And what did I do to make him feel that way?

The second question doesn't mean you did something wrong -- just that you did something and that made him feel something.

Seriously. Write 2 or 3 paragraphs on that. Whether or not you're being treated unfairly, you need to make a serious attempt at seeing his point of view.

More simply: You're better off learning how to recognize the viewpoints of people with whom you disagree than learning how to seek vengeance against them.
 
TALK TO YOUR DAD!!

If you feel you were punished unfairly you're not going to get anywhere not talking to him about it. Though circumventing his punishment is just asking for the s*** to hit the fan. You're going to get your iBook back sooner or later, but remember that the way you act now is going to influence how your dad treats you down the road.
 
Disclaimer: angry and judgmental rant follows. I don't mean to offend anyone, but what I've seen in this thread shocks and saddens me. My comments are not directed at any one person.

[rant]
It just stuns me that people in this day and age can still think that hitting children is acceptable. They're not just "kids," they're people. Think about how you'd feel if someone bigger and stronger with total power over you hit you every time you did something wrong. Sound like fun? Sound like a good way to engender love and respect? Thugs and bullys throughout history have known that enough physical violence can make people behave.

If that's the only way you can make your child understand you, then you really need to work on your parenting skills. And before you ask, no I don't have children yet, but I've taken care of children plenty of times and wasn't a child so long ago myself.

My parents are both wonderful, loving, people. My two brothers and I were raised without being hit. None of us has ever been in trouble with the law, was ever suspended from school, or ever had discipline problems with any authority figure that didn't deserve it. The vast majority of my friends were raised without being hit and they turned out the same. Kids can understand and respond to an awful lot.

Put hitting aside for a moment. Parents are not always right. Sometimes they're arbitrary and mean for no reason. Sometimes they're just bastards in general; there are a lot of bastards out there, and unfortunately, sometimes they reproduce. To assume that a parent is always right, just because they're the adult, is the height of ignorance and arrogance. Children are people too. Smaller, not as developed mentally or physically, but people. Yes, sometimes a parent has to put his or her foot down, but that doesn't mean that you lash out physically or stop treating your child like a person. You want your children to treat you with respect? Try treating them with some. [/rant]

As to the specifics of this situation, I don't know. From what the OP has said, it sounds like his dad lost his cool for no real reason. He not only took the ibook, but also beat the OP with a belt. For... what, exactly? Not getting ready fast enough? If any adult behaved like that towards another adult, we'd all agree that he had serious anger management issues and was a real danger. But because the victim is a child, the great majority of you seem to think the father is justified.

Of course, we are only hearing the OP's side of it. I don't know what the OP's father would say. Nothing could justify beating his son with a belt, but maybe taking the ibook was reasonable. I don't know. What I do know is that this is a complex situation between two people, and can't be resolved as easily as "he's right because he's your father."

Ultimately, of course, those of you who say that the father has authority are right. Both physically and legally, he is in control. It's a shame that he can't control his temper, but such is life. So my advice to you, Hummer, is to try to learn to see his blow-ups coming and avoid them. Not because he's necessarily right (tho he may be), but because it will make your life a whole lot easier.
 
Hummer said:
You have to understand. I didn't disrespect him until he pissed me off. I just made that one suggestion in a respectful way. He didn't even reply to it and he comes at me taking the iBook before I did anything else. Basically he took it when I did nothing at all. I literally did nothing at all. I don't know how making a suggestion could be put against as me as disrespectful. Usually when I make suggestions they don't cause the person to bust in a room, throw a chair, and take stuff from me.
Trust me, I do understand. You thought that you were being helpful, and I'm sure given enough time to reflect, your dad would probably say that he could have handled that situation better. But you also have to understand a few things:

1) At that time, he wasn't looking for suggestions... was he stressed? Angry about something else? He wanted you to do do something, and you weren't doing it to his satisfaction, that's it. But TheAnswer (and others) brought up a very good point: If he was stressed, why? If he was angry about something else, why? There are ways to find out if he was, and what you can do to help in the future.

2) You involved your sister. Even though you say that when you found it, you had no intention of using your iBook... and since I don't know you, I have to take you at that word. But you involved your sister. You say she "ratted" you out. She should have. To ask her to lie for you is not only unfair to your dad, but it's unfair to her. She's probably not even old enough to understand why you were asking her to lie, only that you were asking her to lie. If you can't see how wrong it was to involve your sister in your problem, I don't know how else anyone can help you here.

3) Even saying that you could screw over your father by taking his keys, hacking his accounts, etc. is wrong. Doing so would escalate an already overblown argument into the realm of criminal... not to mention the trust you would lose not only from your father but any understanding/sympathy your mom has/had for you.

That said, you do have options:

- Keep quiet and take the punishment. I can tell that you don't like this option, but maybe both you and your dad need time to cool off.

- Apologize, but then talk to both your mom and dad (both separately and together if necessary) to find out why what happened did... tell them everything. You thought that you were helping, you felt what your dad did was unfair... but you want to find out how stuff like this can be prevented, or at least lessened in the future.

Personally, I feel that your dad initially overreacted to your not moving quickly enough to get ready. For whatever reasons, he was stressed and maybe took it out on you. But you crossed the line when you found where he had hidden your computer and then asked your sister to lie for you. At that point you lost any and all moral standing... Now, you can either fight this situation or you can try to make it better (at least for the future).
 
stonyc said:
Personally, I feel that your dad initially overreacted to your not moving quickly enough to get ready. For whatever reasons, he was stressed and maybe took it out on you. But you crossed the line when you found where he had hidden your computer and then asked your sister to lie for you. At that point you lost any and all moral standing... Now, you can either fight this situation or you can try to make it better (at least for the future).

This is by far the best post so far in this thread. Perfectly said, and excellent advice.
 
QCassidy352 said:
Disclaimer: angry and judgmental rant follows. I don't mean to offend anyone, but what I've seen in this thread shocks and saddens me. My comments are not directed at any one person.

[rant]
It just stuns me that people in this day and age can still think that hitting children is acceptable. They're not just "kids," they're people. Think about how you'd feel if someone bigger and stronger with total power over you hit you every time you did something wrong. Sound like fun? Sound like a good way to engender love and respect? Thugs and bullys throughout history have known that enough physical violence can make people behave.

If that's the only way you can make your child understand you, then you really need to work on your parenting skills. And before you ask, no I don't have children yet, but I've taken care of children plenty of times and wasn't a child so long ago myself.

My parents are both wonderful, loving, people. My two brothers and I were raised without being hit. None of us has ever been in trouble with the law, was ever suspended from school, or ever had discipline problems with any authority figure that didn't deserve it. The vast majority of my friends were raised without being hit and they turned out the same. Kids can understand and respond to an awful lot.

Put hitting aside for a moment. Parents are not always right. Sometimes they're arbitrary and mean for no reason. Sometimes they're just bastards in general; there are a lot of bastards out there, and unfortunately, sometimes they reproduce. To assume that a parent is always right, just because they're the adult, is the height of ignorance and arrogance. Children are people too. Smaller, not as developed mentally or physically, but people. Yes, sometimes a parent has to put his or her foot down, but that doesn't mean that you lash out physically or stop treating your child like a person. You want your children to treat you with respect? Try treating them with some. [/rant]

As to the specifics of this situation, I don't know. From what the OP has said, it sounds like his dad lost his cool for no real reason. He not only took the ibook, but also beat the OP with a belt. For... what, exactly? Not getting ready fast enough? If any adult behaved like that towards another adult, we'd all agree that he had serious anger management issues and was a real danger. But because the victim is a child, the great majority of you seem to think the father is justified.

Of course, we are only hearing the OP's side of it. I don't know what the OP's father would say. Nothing could justify beating his son with a belt, but maybe taking the ibook was reasonable. I don't know. What I do know is that this is a complex situation between two people, and can't be resolved as easily as "he's right because he's your father."

Ultimately, of course, those of you who say that the father has authority are right. Both physically and legally, he is in control. It's a shame that he can't control his temper, but such is life. So my advice to you, Hummer, is to try to learn to see his blow-ups coming and avoid them. Not because he's necessarily right (tho he may be), but because it will make your life a whole lot easier.


Amen
 
Hummer said:
It would be best if I just told the story.

He wakes me up an hour before he's about to drop my sister off for tennis lessons.
I already know I have to pick her up, but my dad wants me to go with him to drop her off and he wants me to wait there through her lesson in the heat for her to finish. Now he's going to be there until a half hour before her lesson ends which is technically the time I must be there to watch her and then take her home. I don't have to be there 'til he has to leave to go to work from the tennis. \

He wakes me up an hour before he's about to leave. He tells me to get ready. I wake up and I sit there in a daze. He calls my name and tells me to hurry up.
I then tell him that there is no way I'll make it in time to come with him in the car and that he should just go drop her off instead of waiting for me to get ready and I'll be there to pick her up because the park where her lessons are is only a couple blocks away. So I start putting my clothes that I'm going to wear out on the bed quietly. And he runs into the room screaming that he's told me enough times to hurry up and get ready and that he's had enough. That's when he picks up my computer chair and acts like he's going to throw it at me and he throws it down and takes my iBook while saying "why should I ask you to do anything for me. Don't do anything for me anymore!!" and he hides the iBook. Now basically anything he wants me to do for him I do no questions asked. He really made no sense saying that. I took it literally as he doesn't want me to bring her home anymore after the lessons so I layed back down going to sleep. He comes back and he says you have one minute to get in that shower and get ready or next week you're grounded. I tell him that I told him to go and I'll be there before he has to leave to accompany her for her lessons. I also tell him I took his statement "don't do anything for me" literally. Then he makes this remark like oh boy he's using big words now and I'm just like... So he goes you have one minute to get ready or I'm getting the belt. It's like an half an hour before he has to leave and it takes me a half hour to shower and brush my teeth alone. I still have to iron my clothing and wash the gel out of my hair. I tell him again that I'll be there, but he goes "you don't know time, I can't have you doing that." And then he goes "so one minute and I'm getting the belt". At this moment I'm really pissed and I tell him he can go ahead and get the belt (I can take a beating). That's really all I want to say after that. A couple more statements he makes is where he goes way overboard and it's why I refuse to "talk out" the problem with him. I did get the belt, but it was like nothing to me so I will disregard that.

To make the ending shorter. I did pick up my sister and I did it the way I suggested because my mom butted in. And my way didn't involve me sitting in the heat for two hours.
I've only been punished once in my life, and it was a one week grounding when i was caught smoking pot. My parents rock:cool:. But seriously, that's only true because it's the only thing I've ever really done wrong, and in the end, it made my relationship with my mother stronger and she trusts me now more than ever. My parents always explained how they felt when I was misbehaving or done something semi-wrong and I was understood and never did it again.
 
dornoforpyros said:
buy your own damn iBook and quite your winning
Um, he did. :rolleyes:

I agree with those who said your Dad overreacted and it was unfair, but that you have to just suck it up. I also had a strict parent who pulled the same kinda stuff. I was a good kid who got treated like a terror over nothing. You don't seem like a bad person, just young and wanting to fight over something that really isn't that important. Your Dad wanted you to do something, you wanted to do it another way, that doesn't always work in the real world. I'm sitting here right now because I have 2 different bosses telling me 2 different things, so I get to sit and wait for them to make up their minds over what they want to do. I'm not fighting back because I want to keep my job and it really doesn't matter. I'm sure your computer is fine. If it isn't, then you have a case for being mad.

So go apologize, even though you really shouldn't have to, but don't ask for it back. Make it clear you want nothing but to apologize. If he baits you, which he might, don't give in. Just tell him he's right and you're sorry, even if you aren't. Don't look for it, don't ask for it back, until after you're supposed to get it back. Say you need it for school. And don't trust a 7 year old.
 
The only thing I'll add is that parents are people too; just as kids are people. It's not the "suggstion" Hummer made, it's how many times he has made these "reasonble" suggestions when asked to do something. This amounts to arguing to many people and I know I lose patience when somebody argues with me for no good reason than because he is 15 years old and that's what they do. just because you are a teenager and you think you know everything, you don't. Accept your punishment and grow up.
 
It sounds to me like your father is prone to tantrums - it's very common in parents these days. He obviously completely overreacted when he picked up the computer chair and threatened to throw it. If he does it again, I'd definitely get out the baseball bat and get spanking - it's the only way he'll ever learn to control his temper.

Remember, spare the rod, spoil the parent!

In keeping with the aggressive tone of this thread!
:)
 
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