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Dual 2.5GHz PowerMacs Shipping
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Most likely you're not getting it because of Frances, hate to tell you it's still sitting in CA (Apple told me before they said my package is missing that most of the East U.S. won't be getting it today.wstokes said:
sigh again
Now its getting worse! I am glad to hear that many of you are getting shipment notices. But having ordered 6/29 (and I know I am not the longest waiter here) begins to make me feel like the last kid to get picked for kick ball.....
I keep telling myself to forget about it and just wait, but like a dog to its vomit I just keep checking here, the apple store, and my email........
Now its getting worse! I am glad to hear that many of you are getting shipment notices. But having ordered 6/29 (and I know I am not the longest waiter here) begins to make me feel like the last kid to get picked for kick ball.....
I keep telling myself to forget about it and just wait, but like a dog to its vomit I just keep checking here, the apple store, and my email........
Update
I've now had my Dual 2.5 GHz G5 since 8/12 (almost a month now! it's hard to believe...). Aside from a weird series of kernel panics (now solved; see below) the machine has been ROCK-SOLID. Mine is quiet, does not experience any abnormal temperature spikes/scrolling screen waviness/fan revving, and in generally is perfectly well-behaved. It's also VERY FASY, and well worth the wait! Too all of you still waiting: you will be THRILLED with the performance once you get yours; it really is a LOT faster than I expected.
Kernel Panic Information
------------------------------
I've had four kernel panics since receiving my new Dual 2.5 Ghz G5 on 8/12... I only had four KPs in the entire two years I used my Dual 1.0 GHz "MDD" Power Mac G4!
The first G5 KP was on 8/20 while playing UT2004 with a huge third-party VCTF map. This was surprising, but didn't overly concern me.
The next THREE have been in the last two days... The second was at about 1:00 AM on 8/30, while the machine was idling (I was asleep). The fan noise woke me up (I'm a light sleeper) and I restarted it. The third was at about 3:00 AM on 8/30, again while the machine was idling (I was asleep). I powered if off until the morning, when I uninstalled the only real software I'd installed for the last few days: TechTool Pro 4.0.2 (updated to 4.0.3). I though TTP4 was probably the problem.
The G5 was stable until this morning (around 9:30AM on 8/31), when it KP'd again when I was renaming a file in the Finder... Odd! The last two KPs have the same basic panic.log entry. I was monitoring temperature, fans, voltages, and the like during the last KP, and everything looked perfectly normal.
After reading every 2.5 GHz KP entry on every Mac forum I could find, I began to suspect some sort of interaction with Marcel Bresink's excellent Hardware Monitor utility. I sent him an e-mail with my suspicions and asked him if could look into it, which he did with astonishing speed.
Marcel Bresink isolated a "memory management problem in the way the kernel driver for the Apple Fan Controller Unit interacts with the cooling control of Power Macintosh G5 systems. This error is detected by the kernel which in turn halts the system with a Kernel Panic message. The problem is limited to Power Macintosh G5 systems, 2003 or 2004 models, running Mac OS X 10.3.3, 10.3.4, or 10.3.5. Other OS versions prior to 10.3.3 are not affected".
These kernel panics can apparently occur without Hardware Monitor running, since the bug is apparently in Apple's Fan Controller Unit driver, but Hardware Monitor uses these driver routines and thus inadvertently increases the frequency of the kernel panics on affected systems. Since this is a problem in the Apple Fan Controller Unit driver, he will be releasing a revised version of Hardware Monitor that temporarily disables the feature to display fan control readouts until Apple has fixed the problem. He has reported the problem to Apple, so hopefully they will release a fix quickly! Marcel asked me to note that his analysis is preliminary.
I want to thank Marcel for his extremely quick and thorough testing and analysis of this issue. Marcel also writes the excellent TinkerTool freeware, and his web site is here.
I've now had my Dual 2.5 GHz G5 since 8/12 (almost a month now! it's hard to believe...). Aside from a weird series of kernel panics (now solved; see below) the machine has been ROCK-SOLID. Mine is quiet, does not experience any abnormal temperature spikes/scrolling screen waviness/fan revving, and in generally is perfectly well-behaved. It's also VERY FASY, and well worth the wait! Too all of you still waiting: you will be THRILLED with the performance once you get yours; it really is a LOT faster than I expected.
Kernel Panic Information
------------------------------
I've had four kernel panics since receiving my new Dual 2.5 Ghz G5 on 8/12... I only had four KPs in the entire two years I used my Dual 1.0 GHz "MDD" Power Mac G4!
The first G5 KP was on 8/20 while playing UT2004 with a huge third-party VCTF map. This was surprising, but didn't overly concern me.
The next THREE have been in the last two days... The second was at about 1:00 AM on 8/30, while the machine was idling (I was asleep). The fan noise woke me up (I'm a light sleeper) and I restarted it. The third was at about 3:00 AM on 8/30, again while the machine was idling (I was asleep). I powered if off until the morning, when I uninstalled the only real software I'd installed for the last few days: TechTool Pro 4.0.2 (updated to 4.0.3). I though TTP4 was probably the problem.
The G5 was stable until this morning (around 9:30AM on 8/31), when it KP'd again when I was renaming a file in the Finder... Odd! The last two KPs have the same basic panic.log entry. I was monitoring temperature, fans, voltages, and the like during the last KP, and everything looked perfectly normal.
After reading every 2.5 GHz KP entry on every Mac forum I could find, I began to suspect some sort of interaction with Marcel Bresink's excellent Hardware Monitor utility. I sent him an e-mail with my suspicions and asked him if could look into it, which he did with astonishing speed.
Marcel Bresink isolated a "memory management problem in the way the kernel driver for the Apple Fan Controller Unit interacts with the cooling control of Power Macintosh G5 systems. This error is detected by the kernel which in turn halts the system with a Kernel Panic message. The problem is limited to Power Macintosh G5 systems, 2003 or 2004 models, running Mac OS X 10.3.3, 10.3.4, or 10.3.5. Other OS versions prior to 10.3.3 are not affected".
These kernel panics can apparently occur without Hardware Monitor running, since the bug is apparently in Apple's Fan Controller Unit driver, but Hardware Monitor uses these driver routines and thus inadvertently increases the frequency of the kernel panics on affected systems. Since this is a problem in the Apple Fan Controller Unit driver, he will be releasing a revised version of Hardware Monitor that temporarily disables the feature to display fan control readouts until Apple has fixed the problem. He has reported the problem to Apple, so hopefully they will release a fix quickly! Marcel asked me to note that his analysis is preliminary.
I want to thank Marcel for his extremely quick and thorough testing and analysis of this issue. Marcel also writes the excellent TinkerTool freeware, and his web site is here.
untill hell frezes over
Yeah, they gave me overnight upgrade and 50$ I must not be as nice as other people. When they offered me money I said that I wasnt looking for a discount, I just wanted to know what was happening with the machine. No one knows anything at apple customer support
For the best computer the world they sure are in the dark ages for intra company communication between manufacturing and sales support.
I did learn some things from this experiece: DO NOT buy from apple till it says IN STOCK. DO NOT try and spend more money by customizing your machine with high end components. Finally and Most importantly DO NOT use the apple store untill HELL freezes over.
wdlove said:
Yeah, they gave me overnight upgrade and 50$ I must not be as nice as other people. When they offered me money I said that I wasnt looking for a discount, I just wanted to know what was happening with the machine. No one knows anything at apple customer support
For the best computer the world they sure are in the dark ages for intra company communication between manufacturing and sales support.
I did learn some things from this experiece: DO NOT buy from apple till it says IN STOCK. DO NOT try and spend more money by customizing your machine with high end components. Finally and Most importantly DO NOT use the apple store untill HELL freezes over.
DarylF2 said:
Excellent post, thanks for the info!! I'm going to be purchasing Hardware Monitor and it's good to know this informtion for when I do!
Thanks again, that's what makes forums like this so resourceful. Not to mention listening ears to rant and company in misery. 😉
I like the analogy to the dog returning to its vomit. Very apt.sjbrownie said:
I too ordered on the 29th and am still waiting. Just off the phone and they're sticking to the latest revised date of the 13th of September -- but these stories of the 6800 card / 30" monitor having delays into October has me mighty worried.
klaus
macrumors 6502a
sjbrownie said:
Hmm, i would suggest just the opposite 🙂
DO customize your machine, cause the BTO's are shipped to reseller first, and no sign of standard configs.
and DO order from online apple store, cause they are waaaay ahead in line of people who ordered from resellers
haha 😀
Hey I'm BAAACK! (hard drive strategy)
Many of the newer posters probably don't know me, but I picked up my machine Aug 20 from a local apple store in this post and XO'd my online order after news of a second delay coming. I created the original spreadsheet that tamtam siphoned data from to make his (great job tam tam!). Many who already have their machines stopped posting (geee.....wonder why) but I thought I'd drop in & say hi. I might post my pictures & setup sometime.
Anyway, I immediately got busy when I brought the G5 home setting up a hard drive strategy, doing some ad work & setting up music apps. Still need to setup all the video, but I wanted to share what I've done so far in case it might interest anyone.
To improve the hard drive throughput bottleneck, I installed a raptor in drive bay 1 and moved the stock 160 to bay 2. Then I separated users from OS & applications. That lets your drives work in tandem with dual throughput on the stock sata controller and gives you EVEN MORE speed for your new G5.
Its MUCH faster than having all your user data/OS/Apps all on one drive, and faster than raid 1 (which is basically the same speed wise.) The drive partitions "mirror" each other via automated backups so that if one internal drive goes down, I can reboot from the "mirrored" internal drive & be fine.
All backups except itunes & iphoto happen internally, daily, and automatically in the background without a keystroke from me. There are no raid 0+1 software setups yet for a G5 and those require 4 drives minimum. And those running raid 0 only have NO backup when (not if...when) they go down.....scary thought.
So this was one way I learned to have speed & redundancy on a budget. This picture explains it all.....enjoy.
And for those still waiting, hang in there. All the time spent waiting will quickly fade away once you've been using your new machine for a week or 2. --E
Many of the newer posters probably don't know me, but I picked up my machine Aug 20 from a local apple store in this post and XO'd my online order after news of a second delay coming. I created the original spreadsheet that tamtam siphoned data from to make his (great job tam tam!). Many who already have their machines stopped posting (geee.....wonder why) but I thought I'd drop in & say hi. I might post my pictures & setup sometime.
Anyway, I immediately got busy when I brought the G5 home setting up a hard drive strategy, doing some ad work & setting up music apps. Still need to setup all the video, but I wanted to share what I've done so far in case it might interest anyone.
To improve the hard drive throughput bottleneck, I installed a raptor in drive bay 1 and moved the stock 160 to bay 2. Then I separated users from OS & applications. That lets your drives work in tandem with dual throughput on the stock sata controller and gives you EVEN MORE speed for your new G5.
Its MUCH faster than having all your user data/OS/Apps all on one drive, and faster than raid 1 (which is basically the same speed wise.) The drive partitions "mirror" each other via automated backups so that if one internal drive goes down, I can reboot from the "mirrored" internal drive & be fine.
All backups except itunes & iphoto happen internally, daily, and automatically in the background without a keystroke from me. There are no raid 0+1 software setups yet for a G5 and those require 4 drives minimum. And those running raid 0 only have NO backup when (not if...when) they go down.....scary thought.
So this was one way I learned to have speed & redundancy on a budget. This picture explains it all.....enjoy.
And for those still waiting, hang in there. All the time spent waiting will quickly fade away once you've been using your new machine for a week or 2. --E
The FedEx plane was "late in leaving LAX" so now the computer won't get shipped until tommorow. FedEx is crediting Apple for the mess up, but when I called apple to get a piece of that refund, they pointed out it was a free upgrade to priority overnight. ADC really doesn't like to be nice to their customers.
So hopefully the computer that was shipped sunday will be here by thursday, "priority overnight" my eye.
Anyways, 10.3.5 sounds like a go, and running the Hardware Test that comes with the G5 sounds like a worthwhile thing to do.
So hopefully the computer that was shipped sunday will be here by thursday, "priority overnight" my eye.
Anyways, 10.3.5 sounds like a go, and running the Hardware Test that comes with the G5 sounds like a worthwhile thing to do.
solo-act said:
Very good setup. I'm on an even tighter budget so i will only have the stock 160gb and a 160gb firewire mirroring it, for now (or is it when?).
I am thinking of going the scsi route. Only problem would be the cost of an ultra160/320 card. Do you think it would be worth it? the Seagate Cheetah ST336704LCV 36.7 GB 10k ultra160 goes for much less than the sata raptor, i could get two and raid them....
aidamahn said:
Adaptec is longer supporting their SCSI cards on the Mac. I found out the hard way (and have a now-useless Adaptec PowerDomain 29160 that for some reason will NOT work with my new 2.5GHz G5...). If you do go SCSI, I'd recommend an ATTO card. Personally, I'm migrating away from SCSI altogether; it just isn't worth the hassle to me these days (especially with 10K RPM SATA drives and Firewire tape drives).
To DarylF2
I read with great interest your post about the Dual 2.5s and KPs. I have a Dual 2.5 and have the fan reving while idling problem also, which has forced me to restart the machine several times. I've also read posts in all the Mac forums and it seems to me the problem is directly related to the ATI Video Card in the new units. The new Dual 1.8s and 2.0s with the NVIDIA 5200 card do not seem to have this problem and also don't having the rippling while scrolling problem which I have. I am very curious as to what video card you have and if you are using a Cinema Display. These two seem to be related. Also, are you using more than one monitor. I have a 22" Cinema Display and a 19" Pioneer LCD. Since I've dissconnected the 2nd display (Pioneer), I have not had any KPs and the fan reving has not been as bad.
I read with great interest your post about the Dual 2.5s and KPs. I have a Dual 2.5 and have the fan reving while idling problem also, which has forced me to restart the machine several times. I've also read posts in all the Mac forums and it seems to me the problem is directly related to the ATI Video Card in the new units. The new Dual 1.8s and 2.0s with the NVIDIA 5200 card do not seem to have this problem and also don't having the rippling while scrolling problem which I have. I am very curious as to what video card you have and if you are using a Cinema Display. These two seem to be related. Also, are you using more than one monitor. I have a 22" Cinema Display and a 19" Pioneer LCD. Since I've dissconnected the 2nd display (Pioneer), I have not had any KPs and the fan reving has not been as bad.
I still do not understand this "rippling" problem. I've been told that if the fans rev when you turn on the iTunes visualizer, you have the "fan problem." But I see no scrolling issues whatsoever. If I move the scroll bar up and down very quickly for about 2 or 3 seconds, the fans rev up, but then back down...? I just assumed that the fans rev because the memory controller gets hot. It idles around 160F and when it gets hotter, the fans turn on. Has anyone been monitoring that?
9600XT with 1.5 GB RAM.
9600XT with 1.5 GB RAM.
I'm back
Here you go everyone. Updated the spreadsheet with the lastest info posted by everyone since last Thursday. Adding more and more people who fall under the category of " This is my first post but I have been following from the beginning....." To those I say welcome aboard. To those who recieved their G5 since my last post congrats 🙂 To those who have slippage in dates sorry....
Again my standard speach: if your info is wrong or new status exists include it in your next post or drop me a line.
BTW my G5 is finally hooked up and running fine 😎
Here you go everyone. Updated the spreadsheet with the lastest info posted by everyone since last Thursday. Adding more and more people who fall under the category of " This is my first post but I have been following from the beginning....." To those I say welcome aboard. To those who recieved their G5 since my last post congrats 🙂 To those who have slippage in dates sorry....
Again my standard speach: if your info is wrong or new status exists include it in your next post or drop me a line.
BTW my G5 is finally hooked up and running fine 😎
17Macsandcounti said:
I have the ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB video card driving two displays: a Dell 2000FP 20.1" LCD (1600x1200x32bpp at 60Hz) as my primary display (via the ADC port using a Dr. Bott's ADC-DVI converter) and a Dell Dell 1600HS 21" Trinitron CRT (1600x1200x32bpp at 85Hz) as my secondary display (via the DVI port using Apple's supplied DVI-VGA converter). My KPs are still gone (after disabling Hardware Monitor 1.1), and so do NOT seem to be related to my video card or dual-monitor setup.
Response from Apple Australia
Hi All,
Tamtam, thanks for putting me on the spreadsheet here are my details; 2.5 BTO, stock RAM, BT with KB and Mouse, no modem, 2 GB additional from reseller, machine ordered from a reseller, 6800 ordered separately.
I said I'd be speaking to an Apple staffer and here is the summary of my phone call. I received a call from Shelley, Executive Affairs Manager of Apple Australia. Customer Care report to her and her job is to liase with management in the US.
Shelley had spoken to the Product Manager for G5's. In response to "when will G5's be shipping in general quantity to Australia", the answer was estimated four weeks, BTO and stock.
Apple Australia have no contingency planning or customer care planning for this situation with the G5. Nor is any under development, but she would push the idea up the chain. I pointed out that most customers for these items are commiting anywhere from US$3,000 to AUD$14,000 in all to Apple when you add Cinema Displays, software (Production), RAM and other items and for no effort to be made to look after these customers was a rather poor effort. She noted that, and agreed in part.
Apple Australia do not know how their orders fit into the global supply chain. So they cannot say when a machine will be made and from where. It could come for any of the factories; Cork, Sacramento, Shenzen, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.
Complaints in writing will definitely be fed into corporate reporting and it is probably the only way customers have to make senior management aware of the customer displeasure, even if it only messes up the numbers for the quarter.
Apple Australia's MD is currently in the US. She didn't say what for, but it may be for a Regional MD's meeting or alike. If that were the case, many regions such Australia, Benelux and other parts of Europe may hear some communication soon. Speculating only.
In the end all Apple can offer is "understanding". About what I expected but at least the activity makes the whole situation a tiny bit more bearable. Shelley was very patient and pleasant and doing what she can, but is also well aware that customers are not happy.
Hopefully then new group of machines that seem to be shipping to lots of people on here are indicative of some progress at IBM and Apple.
Hi All,
Tamtam, thanks for putting me on the spreadsheet here are my details; 2.5 BTO, stock RAM, BT with KB and Mouse, no modem, 2 GB additional from reseller, machine ordered from a reseller, 6800 ordered separately.
I said I'd be speaking to an Apple staffer and here is the summary of my phone call. I received a call from Shelley, Executive Affairs Manager of Apple Australia. Customer Care report to her and her job is to liase with management in the US.
Shelley had spoken to the Product Manager for G5's. In response to "when will G5's be shipping in general quantity to Australia", the answer was estimated four weeks, BTO and stock.
Apple Australia have no contingency planning or customer care planning for this situation with the G5. Nor is any under development, but she would push the idea up the chain. I pointed out that most customers for these items are commiting anywhere from US$3,000 to AUD$14,000 in all to Apple when you add Cinema Displays, software (Production), RAM and other items and for no effort to be made to look after these customers was a rather poor effort. She noted that, and agreed in part.
Apple Australia do not know how their orders fit into the global supply chain. So they cannot say when a machine will be made and from where. It could come for any of the factories; Cork, Sacramento, Shenzen, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.
Complaints in writing will definitely be fed into corporate reporting and it is probably the only way customers have to make senior management aware of the customer displeasure, even if it only messes up the numbers for the quarter.
Apple Australia's MD is currently in the US. She didn't say what for, but it may be for a Regional MD's meeting or alike. If that were the case, many regions such Australia, Benelux and other parts of Europe may hear some communication soon. Speculating only.
In the end all Apple can offer is "understanding". About what I expected but at least the activity makes the whole situation a tiny bit more bearable. Shelley was very patient and pleasant and doing what she can, but is also well aware that customers are not happy.
Hopefully then new group of machines that seem to be shipping to lots of people on here are indicative of some progress at IBM and Apple.
invaLPsion
macrumors 65816
thedogcow said:
It could mean that they have not yet picked up the package because it missed the cutoff... 😕
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