Duplicate Posts

[Dino F]

I explained that in this part of my post.

Can we create an "iPhone 14 Discussion" thread then, as long as we don't talk about pre-orders?!

Otherwise, the iPhone 13 thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/thread....2304493/page-454?post=31190162#post-31190162) will more than likely continue with potential 14 rumours (many have dropped already) ?

Just trying to get clarification more than anything.

 

[Weaselboy]

I checked and there are already about 30 threads in the iPhone section discussing various aspects of the iPhone 14, so we are not trying to discourage discussion of the new phone. As long as your thread is not a duplicate of an existing iPhone 14 thread, it is fine to discuss that topic.

Like you mentioned, we just don't want it to turn into a three month early pre-order thread.

 

[jav6454]

@Weaselboy
What about threads about pre-orders on the MacBook Pro forum when there is a sticky already? Can you merge the duplicate thread into the sticky one? In the end they serve the exact same thing, don't they?

 

[Saladin12]

That's discouraging to hear. I think you're genuinely misunderstanding how much those threads enable community building.

A week is nowhere near enough time to discuss all the points we touched on in those threads (network choosing, retailers, trade-in times/prices, to name just a few). I understand saying 'three months is too long' but I'm sure there's compromise in timing to be made here (maybe 1st August?). This honestly feels like a fight the mods/staff really didn't need to pick.

 

[jav6454]

[...] It's a shame the mods/staff are trying to arbitrarily constrict this. It's only going to drive MR forum engagement down.

The mods are not trying to constrict anything, just apply a rule that they have already explained it. I fail to see how it's discouraging.

 

[Saladin12]

The mods are not trying to constrict anything, just apply a rule that they have already explained it. I fail to see how it's discouraging.

I guess I'm trying to say that the policy isn't a good one. If there had been clear fallout that was impactful and problems arising from previous years' threads - I'd understand. But this hasn't been the case. Everybody is nothing but supportive and helpful in those threads. They give people a single place to congregate for a couple of months. You feel like you've been part of something once you get your hands on your phone. That you've helped others and they helped you.

I'm not saying that the mods shouldn't enforce rules - I'm saying that this policy should be adjusted considering the POSITIVE impact it's had on the users of the forum (and let's be frank, on the engagement of the MR site and therefore ad revenue).

 

[jav6454]

I guess I'm trying to say that the policy isn't a good one. If there had been clear fallout that was impactful and problems arising from previous years' threads - I'd understand. But this hasn't been the case. Everybody is nothing but supportive and helpful in those threads. They give people a single place to congregate for a couple of months. You feel like you've been part of something once you get your hands on your phone. That you've helped others and they helped you.

I'm not saying that the mods shouldn't enforce rules - I'm saying that this policy should be adjusted considering the POSITIVE impact it's had on the users of the forum (and let's be frank, on the engagement of the MR site and therefore ad revenue).

The sentiment is good, but as we can see, I'd be better if mods handled those threads as users will always fight for who gets to own the mega thread. I for one would support such thread before hand only if a mod/staff member made it and if it never changes moving forward for all releases.

 

[Weaselboy]

@Weaselboy
What about threads about pre-orders on the MacBook Pro forum when there is a sticky already? Can you merge the duplicate thread into the sticky one? In the end they serve the exact same thing, don't they?

That 14" preorder thread is over 600 posts as is the sticky merged thread. At this point it would be a complete mess to merge those two.

I agree with what you are inferring though, that it would have been better to use the existing sticky thread than create a new one.

 

[jav6454]

That 14" preorder thread is over 600 posts as is the sticky merged thread. At this point it would be a complete mess to merge those two.

I agree with what you are inferring though, that it would have been better to use the existing sticky thread than create a new one.

Thanks for the explanation and help!

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

I agree with this:

This honestly feels like a fight the mods/staff really didn't need to pick.

But disagree with this:

Then let's give the powers for that to those that have always done it - @Jinjin and @TheYayAreaLiving

 

[chown33]

A simple conditional for thread creation might be:

If you can't order it yet, then a thread about orders is premature.​

Apparently, I can't count days correctly.

I'd completely forgotten there was a multi-day lag between when the event occurs and when orders begin.

In 2020 the iPhone event was on Oct. 13 and orders began on Oct. 16.

In 2021 the event was on Sept. 14 and orders began on Sept. 17.

I apologize for creating confusion.

Weaselboy's statement about when the thread can begin is correct.

 

[Sir_Macs_A_Lot]

If we can't talk about what we might like to order in the future just because it hasn't been officially announced yet...can we change the name of this site from MacRumors to MacOnlyConfirmed?

 

[Saladin12]

If we can't talk about what we might like to order in the future just because it hasn't been officially announced yet...can we change the name of this site from MacRumors to MacOnlyConfirmed?

I was thinking this same thing but didn't know how to articulate it lol.

But disagree with this:

That's fair - my only intention by saying that is to ensure engagement and community spirit.

 

[jav6454]

If we can't talk about what we might like to order in the future just because it hasn't been officially announced yet...can we change the name of this site from MacRumors to MacOnlyConfirmed?

Yes it is a rumor site, but there are rules you agreed to follow when signing up. One of those is pre-emotive threads for orders like the one the mod team described is off limits until the announcement.

 

[tobefirst ⚽️]

If we can't talk about what we might like to order in the future just because it hasn't been officially announced yet...can we change the name of this site from MacRumors to MacOnlyConfirmed?

Ha! Good point!

 

[Saladin12]

I’m not saying this to be awkward but could I be pointed in the direction of the rules and policies that govern the forum? I genuinely want to make sure I don’t fall fowl of them moving forward. I did have a look here: https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us but couldn’t see anything that related to the issue we’re discussing in this thread. It would also help us all be on the same page too. Thanks in advance!

 

[Weaselboy]

You won't find it in the rules. It is an internal policy decision discussed and developed among staff over the years.

For that reason it is not something we would formally send a rule violation reminder over. We just close the thread and send the member a note letting them know about the policy.

 

[Saladin12]

You won't find it in the rules. It is an internal policy decision discussed and developed among staff over the years.

For that reason it is not something we would formally send a rule violation reminder over. We just close the thread and send the member a note letting them know about the policy.

Okay, with all due respect. No. I’m not having that. That’s that craziest thing I've ever heard. You can’t give a violation for rules that aren’t public… That’s not how rules work. You can’t expect forum members to abide by rules they can’t see…

 

[jav6454]

Okay, with all due respect. No. I’m not having that. That’s that craziest thing I've ever heard. You can’t give a violation for rules that aren’t public… That’s not how rules work. You can’t expect forum members to abide by rules they can’t see…

Part of agreeing to the terms of registering here, there is clause about following the rules and all that moderation entails. The discussion is among the staff members, which means un biased decisions.

I fail to see how that's crazy.

 

[Weaselboy]

You can’t give a violation for rules that aren’t public…

As I explained, nobody is "given a violation" and nobody is disciplined in any way for this.

There are daily internal discussions among the staff. It often goes something like this:

1. How do we handle X?

2. This came up a year ago and here is a post describing what we did.

3. Sounds good... we all agree that is how this case should be handled then?

Then if there is agreement the matter is handled as discussed.

This happens all the time. If we added new rules for every little issue, the rules would be twice as long as they are now (I think they are a little long already).

If a new issue comes up that is a major problem that is causing disruption in the forums, sometimes that will result in a rule addition or change.

But for minor and infrequent issues like this one, it just becomes a policy issue we can refer back to. Like I said, nobody is going to get clobbered over the head over an issue like this. We just resolve it and let the member know about the policy.

 

[bpeeps]

..it 100% does NOT explain anything??!

This thread (which is still active), was created in July 2021 : https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...e-release-orders-and-dispatch-thread.2304493/

The iPhone announcement came in September 2021.

Why is that thread allowed to continue and yet you have closed down and archived the iPhone 14 thread created by the UK users yesterday??

Because moderation is terribly inconsistent and what the moderators don't catch (which is a lot) gets to stay up.

 

[KaliYoni]

MR Staff–this is how I feel about this topic, in case you are looking for user feedback:

• In general, I think organic user traffic and activity is the best way to determine which threads become the "home" for popular topics.
• However, if there are topics where users actively compete to create and maintain a dominant thread, I support moderation efforts to manage thread creation dates, remove user-driven suppression campaigns, and stop fights over who has "rights" to a given topic.
• I don't think gamifying thread creation by designating certain user-created threads as "MR Preferred" on the basis of "tradition" or past behavior or number of posts or reaction score is a good idea.

----------
edit: added to third point

 

[Saladin12]

As I explained, nobody is "given a violation" and nobody is disciplined in any way for this.

There are daily internal discussions among the staff. It often goes something like this:

1. How do we handle X?

2. This came up a year ago and here is a post describing what we did.

3. Sounds good... we all agree that is how this case should be handled then?

Then if there is agreement the matter is handled as discussed.

This happens all the time. If we added new rules for every little issue, the rules would be twice as long as they are now (I think they are a little long already).

If a new issue comes up that is a major problem that is causing disruption in the forums, sometimes that will result in a rule addition or change.

But for minor and infrequent issues like this one, it just becomes a policy issue we can refer back to. Like I said, nobody is going to get clobbered over the head over an issue like this. We just resolve it and let the member know about the policy.

Fair enough. I hear what you're saying regarding the violations (looks like I slightly misread your post). However on page one of this thread there are two points where you say what the policy is and that clearly instruct what is and isn't allowed:

MacRumors policy is we do not allow preemptive threads like this, so both threads will be disallowed under the policy.

You cannot post a pre-order thread until after the new iPhone announcement.

In relation to what we're discussing in this thread, then, is it not of value to have these rules in the rule section: https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us? The reason I say this is because this all still feels arbitrary to me. You're following through with a rule that:

1. You've come up with and not informed the wider forum
2. Is going to have a negative impact on the community by restricting engagement
3. I still haven't seen a good reason for?

Having seen @KaliYoni's post:

MR Staff–this is how I feel about this topic, in case you are looking for user feedback:

• In general, I think organic user traffic and activity is the best way to determine which threads become the "home" for popular topics.
• However, if there are topics where users actively compete to create and maintain a dominant thread, I support moderation efforts to manage thread creation dates, remove user-driven suppression campaigns, and stop fights over who has "rights" to a given topic.
• I don't think gamifying thread creation by designating certain user-created threads as "MR Preferred" on the basis of past behavior or number of posts or reaction score is a good idea.

I have to say I quite agree with the above. I'm more than happy to welcome some moderation (re. timings specifically I guess) on the creation of the threads - and here is where a public rule would come in handy. And after the announcement of the product is not ideal. Not when you consider this is literally rumours forum.

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

MR Staff–this is how I feel about this topic, in case you are looking for user feedback:

• However, if there are topics where users actively compete to create and maintain a dominant thread, I support moderation efforts to manage thread creation dates, remove user-driven suppression campaigns, and stop fights over who has "rights" to a given topic.

I agree with this. Thank you!

 

[andyw715]

To be fair to both threads in question (noted in the OP) have the word "discussion" in them; they aren't just pre-order threads.

The subject of them are the [US - iPhone 14] pre order, order, delivery, and discussion.
And they are both similarly formatted to match the other 6 threads from 2019-2021

So these threads are where I would go to discuss the matter. I would set a watch on them and occasionally check in throughout the summer to see what people are up to.

Not the 40 or so other fragmented iP 14 threads that are out there.


Given that: This year's discussion has started earlier than those other years, but they all started with at least a few weeks lead time to the actual announcement by Apple (iPhone day).

------------------------------------------

Now to answer the original question by the OP
It's a fairly simple answer.
The crowd favored the later thread.

Open both threads (#1 Monday thread and #2 Wednesday thread) and look at the first post.
A casual viewer would notice 2 things.

1) Content - there was zero content in #1 but some useful things in #2 - useful for everyone? some of it I'm sure, especially the shipping things since we all like to track our phones

2) Discussion - #1 had none.

If both threads continued to live it's pretty plain to see which one would have drifted down into page 3 nothingness.