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Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi Discuss Bloated Software Accusations, Upcoming iTunes Plans
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Yes - listen to the podcast.
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According to Craig:
They have apps which detect bugs, bug reports from users etc and these show clearly the software is getting better.
They have more users than ever. Craig isn't sugar coating it, if you listen to the podcast. He says 'effectively no one upgraded to Snow Leopard' - yet now within a few days they have 50% of their install base on the latest software. Bugs that before were going unnoticed are now being noticed.
And before you reply having a go at me (the swing to negativity and belief that Apple can't do anything right in this forum is alarming) I'm just passing on what was said in the podcast. People in these comments have clearly not listened to it before chiming in.
No thank you. Music should be one seamless experience.
Storage and Store are such a quaint ideas. Desperately holding on to the concept of physical media in cloud form. Both of these will play an increasingly marginal role in music.
And yes, we know, you like 'owning' your music.
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Cable syncing... well I suppose you can do that for a while longer, but syncing to your computer just isn't a way forward. The Mac as the 'digital hub' concept has been replaced with iCloud. At the very least you should sync over WiFi, but really syncing is and should be something that magically just happens to the cloud.
For whatever downsides there are, I've moved 100% of my music, video and photos to iCloud. The simple reason is that no device has enough storage to support the files locally. My music won't fit in 128 GB, my photos certainly won't, and did video ever fit?
In my opinion we're all living the messy transition to local storage as cache and everything else in the cloud. Obviously iTunes suffers most during this transition.
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I do hope everybody in this thread who is not happy has at some point given Apple feedback http://www.apple.com/feedback/
It has improved measurably. One item tossed out was that iOS 9.0 had fewer crashes than any release of iOS 8. They attributed that improvement to the success of the beta program.
Yep, I've also wanted something like this for a while. The installation process should be modular, where you can install what you need. Not necessarily multiple applications, but one big iTunes app, with optional installs/add-ons. I can imagine it may cause a headache, programming wise, but it would be awesome. I remember when iTunes was like a 60MB download... ha!
Something isn't bloated. OS X has about 2.65 GB of wired memory idling, or kernel memory. Comparing memory usage through a user-facing app is really flawed and depends largely on how memory usage is accounted for and tracked. If you have an actual performance problem, that would be something worth noting, but simply saying 'it' uses 4GB isn't terribly interesting or actionable.
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Based upon expert analysis and a well reasoned argument. It is usually best to replace the CEO of the most profitable, largest company in the world, because someone thinks it is just a good idea. Steve Jobs thought Tim Cook had the chops and based upon company performance it would seem he was right.
What are you trying to say? Before you jump to any conclusions, I have been using OS X for 9 years and I don't agree at all with him that the Apple software quality has improved in last five years. OS X is full of bugs and despite the fact you report and cooperate with Apple to fix those bugs, they don't fix them or take more than a year. Same about the security, even when people approach Apple with serious security flaws what is the response of Apple these days? Don't patch it for months and even a year and block the tools so that no one can know about the problem. Mossberg is right and being a loyal Mac user I'm extremely annoyed about the bugs in Apple softwares and if Craig wants to assert the opposite impression then he should definitely be ridiculed!
Yes, and your entire music collection could fit in a similar space. Those were the days!
In the podcast they mentioned thinking about the experience, not the services, and that iTunes was on a multi-year improvement path. I think it is unlikely that any modular app approach is forthcoming, but a streamlining and simplification is likely. The problem with Music is combining the past, present and future into an integrated experience.
Given a couple more months this will fade away as a non-issue and we'll pick up the new complaint of the week.
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Really? I haven't seen a kernel panic in YEARS. What are you calling a bug in OS X? Number 1 crash for me? MATLAB on a daily basis, followed by Xcode on a weekly basis.
Upgrading to a new version of the software is mainly for two reasons. First the software is free and sometimes the new hardware wouldn't work with older version of OS X like my 5K iMac can't work with Mavericks because of the drivers. Second either Apple refuses to patch up critical securities issues in the older version of OS X (like they did with Mavericks and I was forced to upgrade to Yosemite) or fix the bugs in the OS X (Yosemite is still full of bugs). Let Apple do better on these two points and then we can talk about the upgrade statistics. Many of my colleagues are still using SL btw. And he maybe right that bugs are noticed faster these days because users report to Apple regularly but what about the rate of fixing those bugs reported by users?
I still can't believe the state of the web based iCloud website, the performance is awful and when I'm on my note 5 it's completely unusable.
I have never liked iTunes though to be honest. It tries to be too much at once.
They need to split it up and streamline it. The movies app with all your movies, a music app with all your music, iTunes has the place to buy all your apps, music and movies. And a decide manager app.
They could make each app as feature rich and clean as possible, based on the content and not try and do it all like the current bloated mess.
I have never liked iTunes though to be honest. It tries to be too much at once.
They need to split it up and streamline it. The movies app with all your movies, a music app with all your music, iTunes has the place to buy all your apps, music and movies. And a decide manager app.
They could make each app as feature rich and clean as possible, based on the content and not try and do it all like the current bloated mess.
Steve Jobs also thought John Sculley was the right guy for the job and look how that turned out.
iTunes does not manage music well, what it should do is to manage files and their metatags. Finder does it well.
How about integrating the itunes music / video management into finder, by using the metatags, adding an additional layer for "albums" or "series" or "playlists" to the finder environment. You may push the metatags a bit (add ratings, icloud availability) but it would be worthwhile.
I have several thousand songs, iTunes just can't handle it anymore, not with the current XML-File it uses which is - frankly - crap.
Thus liberating the itunes store (which is terrible in its own right - as it is way too slow) from the management is the second step.
The third step would be to have a separate player module - which already exists.
It's the same with Notes, why dabble and crook that program? Just replace it with Pages already and we're done.
How about integrating the itunes music / video management into finder, by using the metatags, adding an additional layer for "albums" or "series" or "playlists" to the finder environment. You may push the metatags a bit (add ratings, icloud availability) but it would be worthwhile.
I have several thousand songs, iTunes just can't handle it anymore, not with the current XML-File it uses which is - frankly - crap.
Thus liberating the itunes store (which is terrible in its own right - as it is way too slow) from the management is the second step.
The third step would be to have a separate player module - which already exists.
It's the same with Notes, why dabble and crook that program? Just replace it with Pages already and we're done.
Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi spoke with John Gruber in this week's episode of "The Talk Show," where they commented on recent opinions that Apple's software isn't up to snuff and offered some details on a new version of iTunes coming in OS X 10.11.4.
Last week, Re/code's Walt Mossberg wrote a piece entitled "Apple's Apps Need Work," pointing towards a "gradual degradation" in quality in several Apple apps and services like iCloud, Mail, and Photos. iTunes for the desktop was one of the most heavily criticized apps, with Mossberg saying he "dreads" opening it because it's "bloated, complex, and sluggish."
During the podcast, Gruber asked Eddy Cue about Mossberg's opinion, prompting him to give some background on how Apple wanted the iTunes experience to work. iTunes, Cue said, was designed at a time when people synced their devices via cable, so offering a centralized place with all of a user's content was key. With Apple Music, Apple decided on a design that would put music front and center while also integrating cloud music with hard copies purchased through iTunes.
"We decided in the short term that what we wanted to do is really make it when you're in music and iTunes, all you see is music," said Cue. He went on to explain that Apple is continually re-evaluating iTunes, and there are plans to release a refreshed version alongside OS X 10.11.4 next month.Cue and Federighi went on to talk about the issues that arise whenever Apple makes major changes to software, as there are always people who prefer not to see significant changes. According to Federighi, there's a "tricky balancing act" with software updates.The two also highlighted the immense scale that Apple is working on, with more than 1 billion active devices and 782 million iCloud users. More than 200,000 iMessages per second are sent at peak times, and there are more than 750 million transactions per week in the iTunes Store and the App Store. Apple Music has grown to 11 million subscribers and more than 2.5 million errors in Maps have been fixed, a number presented as evidence that Apple is continually working on its software.
"I would say first there's nothing we care about more," said Federighi, speaking on Apple's software and services. He believes Apple's core software quality has improved significantly over the course of the last five years, but pointed towards an ever-raising bar that pushes Apple to keep evolving and implementing new features. "Every year we realize the things we were good at last year and the techniques we were using to build the best software we can are not adequate for the next year because the bar keeps going up," he said.
Federighi and Cue's full discussion with John Gruber about the state of software, the desktop version of iTunes, and Apple's efforts to expand its public beta program, can be listed to over on the Daring Fireball website.
Article Link: Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi Discuss Bloated Software Accusations, Upcoming iTunes Plans
Definitely a right headed approach. I am hoping also for a much slimmed down version of OS 10 without daft things like photobooth, chess games, etc, etc, etc. All these kids toys could be free in the App store. Some of us are adults and want a lean efficient OS to run smoothly with Photoshop, Final Cut, Toast et al.
Thats a very Microsoft way of doing things IMO, they should just concentrate on making iTunes 100x better than it is currently - I see no problem having everything in one app.
bloated, complex, and sluggish
Must be a different version to the one I'm using. Having battled with rhythmbox and the atrocious Amarok on Linux (and a few more besides, all of which claim to offer the same functionality and none of which do - Clementine isn't too dreadful, the best of a bad bunch) and the very nasty Windows alternative, I've found iTunes to be consistent and easy to use. Never had a problem with it.
Must be a different version to the one I'm using. Having battled with rhythmbox and the atrocious Amarok on Linux (and a few more besides, all of which claim to offer the same functionality and none of which do - Clementine isn't too dreadful, the best of a bad bunch) and the very nasty Windows alternative, I've found iTunes to be consistent and easy to use. Never had a problem with it.
I think its time for the Apple to go back to the drawing board and completely rethink the purpose and function of iTunes.
Over time it's become really cluttered, annoying and on occasions a down right pain to use. From basic tasks like managing your iTunes account to listening to the radio has become more confusing and difficult overtime.
Apple have shown us time and time again they really know how to design beautiful software (photos app is a good example).
I think it is time for Apple to stops tacking on features and separate the app. Here's my thinking:
A Music App: A plain old simple music player is at the top of my list. I imagine an app with a design and function similar to what can be found on iOS and TVOS. A place for you to listen to your iTunes, Apple Music Library and Radio without any hassle.
iOS Device Manager: As the name suggests, the iOS Device Manager should manage all your iOS devices with ease! A beautiful and elegant user interface could make syncing, backing up and updating a lot easier and better than it is now.
iTunes Store: Again, similar to iOS Devices and the Apple TV, the sole function of the app should be a way to purchase Music, TV shows and Movies and manage your purchases.
Separating iTunes into 3 seperate apps makes much more sense and will allow Apple to introduce new features, enhancements and bug fixes much faster in the future.
Over time it's become really cluttered, annoying and on occasions a down right pain to use. From basic tasks like managing your iTunes account to listening to the radio has become more confusing and difficult overtime.
Apple have shown us time and time again they really know how to design beautiful software (photos app is a good example).
I think it is time for Apple to stops tacking on features and separate the app. Here's my thinking:
A Music App: A plain old simple music player is at the top of my list. I imagine an app with a design and function similar to what can be found on iOS and TVOS. A place for you to listen to your iTunes, Apple Music Library and Radio without any hassle.
iOS Device Manager: As the name suggests, the iOS Device Manager should manage all your iOS devices with ease! A beautiful and elegant user interface could make syncing, backing up and updating a lot easier and better than it is now.
iTunes Store: Again, similar to iOS Devices and the Apple TV, the sole function of the app should be a way to purchase Music, TV shows and Movies and manage your purchases.
Separating iTunes into 3 seperate apps makes much more sense and will allow Apple to introduce new features, enhancements and bug fixes much faster in the future.
Please just listen to the podcast.
I wasn't trying to say adoption rates are amazing, but he was pointing out bugs in snow leopard wouldn't have been as noticeable as bugs in Yosemite because - for whatever reason - more people are using the software early on.
Craig also says they read all the bug reports, but they don't currently respond saying when something has been fixed (like they've been known to do with Maps). The reason was they're not sure when they're going to roll it a fix - be it iOS 9.3 or iOS 10 - they currently keep the development too secret. But Craig said it's something they want to change.
Noooo! Nothing is more of a PITA then having to jump between 3 apps. And then you also have 3 app icons. Ugh. Talk about making a bad situation worse. That's what they did in iOS and I hate it -- an app for podcasts, an app for music play back, an app for iTunes., etc. It's just clutter.
The problem with iTunes IMHO is that it's evolved into a non-intuitive, complicated POS, and not because it does multiple tasks or handles multiple media types, but because Apple over designed it and made changes for just to say "hey new!" But all they really did was take an old house and put up some new ugly wall paper.
Yes but Steve Jobs when he appointed Sculley was not the Steve Jobs who bought Apple back from the brink of bankruptcy.
Also, Apple doesn't seem to have changed its ethos. It isn't growing in profit by blindly adding to the product lineup. They aren't cashing in by selling OS X to PC vendors.
The main change is that Steve Jobs isn't on stage selling us these products. Remember when he introduced FaceTime and everyone says 'they invented video calling!' like Skype didn't exist, and ignoring the necessity of WiFi.
When Tim Cook says 'you can take calls on your watch! I've been wanting to do this since I was five years old!' the response was 'yeah but you need an iPhone...'
Secondly, Steve Jobs is no longer taking credit for other people's ideas. For example: Jony Ive was shown multitouch and wondered if you could create a software keyboard and have the user type on a multitouch glass display... At all things D, Steve Jobs told the story like it was his idea. How do we know which ideas were his and which ideas were his and which came from team members like Tim, Jony or any of the others?
I agree. The past few years they've added features and completely redesigned apps and I'm still waiting for stability. The stability is not there. I bet they'll sooner redesign something rather than focus on making it more reliable.
The only reason I haven't put more money into downloading movies digitally is because the handful I have go missing ! Where did it go? I paid for it. I update and now it's gone?! It's on my phone but not on my Apple TV? Wtf?!
Thank you, Cue, for confirming the March Apple event.
Now, you're FIRED! ...imbecile...
I like Craig, I really do, but I'm afraid he's become twisted by the reality distortion inside Infinite Loop.
Now, you're FIRED! ...imbecile...
I like Craig, I really do, but I'm afraid he's become twisted by the reality distortion inside Infinite Loop.
So it's going to be more of a mess than it already is?
Nice...
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They need to go back to the roots, and go a different direction. How about iTunes Classic for people that just hate the new and improved mess called iTunes?
Nice...
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They need to go back to the roots, and go a different direction. How about iTunes Classic for people that just hate the new and improved mess called iTunes?
Doesn't excuse the dumbass decisions Cook has made such as buying Beats or firing Scott Forstall. Apple has changed its ethos, they're more concerned about market share than making great products. It's more about quantity than quality as well as trying to do much instead of focusing on improving the core products while introducing meaningful additions. In particular, the iPhone and iPad lines have definitely seen the most bloating. The Mac line isn't too far behind but the entire lineup needs some major streamlining. That was one of the first things Jobs did when he returned to Apple: he cleaned up the product lineup but now under Cook, it's back to the fairly bloated mess of the 90s. You know Apple is in trouble quality-wise when they have too many products being sold. That's because you have a CEO who cares more about profits than upholding Steve's standards.
Jobs was a brilliant man but choosing CEOs was not one of his strengths. I know fanboys here will always find a way to justify Cook's decisions and praise anything that's released under him but I just can't. He's a great bean counter but we need a bold and confident CEO with a vision, Cook is not that.
As for Jony, Cook has given him way too much control and power, even for Steve's standards. When Jony made bad designs, Jobs would be sure to let him know. Cook doesn't seem to have the ability to tell Jony when his designs or ideas suck. There's nobody to rein Jony in from time to time. Jobs was that person but Cook clearly has no interest or involvement in the design process or the product development in general. Jobs was definitely more hands-on there and I wish we had a CEO that was as deeply devoted and involved as he was. Cook is seemingly at Jony's mercy and that shows how spineless of a leader he is. Just like how he's always trying to appease Wall Street when Jobs couldn't care less or how Jobs recognized Scott Forstall's talent and potential while Cook caved into the other executives' demands and fired him.
If you'd be kind enough to provide a tl:dr version for the rest of us, that'd be much appreciated.