Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi Discuss Bloated Software Accusations, Upcoming iTunes Plans

[bob24]

This with a caveat: works only for albums present in Apple Music. AND also correctly uploaded to Apple Music. And possibly completely totally different from anything at all in Apple Music, because a remix CD single will not work, and neither will live recordings unless present at AM already.

This is incorrect. I have a few albums from confidential enough Chinese bands which aren't available for streaming or for sale on Apple Music / iTunes (or any other online music service I have tried), and Apple Music does upload them and make them available across all my devices with no problem.

Works exactly in th same way as iTunes Match for me.

I am not saying there are no issues with incorrectly matched remixes (though this is not a problem I have personally encountered), but you are definitly incorrect in saying the album needs to be present in Apple Music. If it isn't iTunes will upload your own copy of the albums (which can be in MP3 or AAC, I don't think lossless is supported) to the cloud and make it available in your music library for streaming or download on all your device. I use this on a regular basis and it works well for me.

 

[dk001]

Y...How do we know which ideas were his and which ideas were his and which came from team members like Tim, Jony or any of the others?

You don't. Personally the piece that I see is that independent of whomever initiated the idea, the final release quality and rollout rested in the hands of SJ. These days, with TC, I get more of a feeling the question being asked is "how will this affect our cash flow" instead - and it is a group discussion / decision.
Not saying it is wrong, however from what I am seeing... not an improvement nor a status quo when it comes to software quality.

 

[jamescobalt]

I'd like to see them spin off parts of their company (e.g. MainStage is fantastic... but why is Apple doing it?) so they can better focus on the stuff that matters; squishing bugs, getting cloud services up to snuff, developing web interfaces, releasing updated Airport hardware, etc. There are just too many chefs in too many kitchens and the entire operation is headed by a Cook.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Forstall? The one who was screwing everything up before he left? The one who refused to apologize for the Maps fiasco?

Everything? Most probably this is the reason why the maximalist Steve Jobs had been working closely with him for 19 years?
You certainly don't know the whole Maps-story-fiasco.

 

[baryon]

• iTunes should be about organizing and listening to Music only.
• There should be an app dedicated to syncing with iDevices and configuring/troubleshooting them that you rarely see and works in the background.
• The App Store app should be renamed to just "Store" and should include iOS apps alongside Mac apps, movie buying and renting, music buying, eBook buying, and whatever else is linked to spending money. Movies would play in QuickTime, Music would play on iTunes, books would open in iBooks, etc...
• iTunes really needs to stop telling me that my "Request Could Not be Completed Due to a Network Error" every 5 minutes when I'm not even using it.
• This stupid top bar should go the hell away once and for all:

I mean seriously, wtf is this? What's the difference between "Playlists" and "My Music"? They're both my music! And it makes no sense to have tiny icons on the left and large words in the middle that are supposed to be sub-options of the tiny icons. There's this thing called the Sidebar, which has nice little drop-down triangles, where it all makes sense. Why did they have to remove these from the sidebar?

 

[jamescobalt]

Noooo! Nothing is more of a PITA then having to jump between 3 apps. And then you also have 3 app icons. Ugh.

Think of it more like how Facebook separated messaging and page management from news feed content. You can message somebody and it seamlessly opens up the messenger app (seamlessly provided your phone is less than 2 gens old). iTunes could do a similar thing. Store. Music & Podcasts. Videos. Each of these three things require completely different interfaces to manage properly, and right now they are all within a single application.

 

[dk001]

Touching.

Now try to sync a live album or a single with five remixes of the same songs, ripped from LEGALLY purchased CD via iCloud.

The result is definitely hair puller
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I don't have any music that has 5 remixes of the same song. I guess I am not into remixes. Mostly Jazz and Classical music. I would imagine I fall into the 95% of mainstream users who have a 100 or less albums. So for us, iTunes works fine. I just use it 'out of the box' and it all works well, as does Mail and the Calendar.

Doesn't even have too be that.
I have a number of live versions of stock albums. I have explicit versions. I have (aside from US music) jpop, kpop, jazz, German metal, Russian classical (from Russian groups), ethnic Japanese temple music, and... When loading my library it is a crapshoot on whether it will still be there in its original form. iTunes did handle that a couple of version back, even got match right. Since the addition of iCloud and AM, sigh... it's a crap shoot. I currently use Google because it has no issue handling my library no issue dealing with my "global" tastes.

and by the way, if you are using AM, not all your songs are still DRM free

 

[rboy505]

I like Photos, but probably because my needs are simpler. One integrated service to sync my photos across all my other Apple devices. Working pretty well for me too.

I can see that, but Apple putting syncing to iCloud and Apple devices above functions people generally require of an app to edit their images means if doing the former is not the priority (maybe is a sidelight, as it would be for me) there's just too much lacking in Photos when you compare it to the many free and $20 options and definitely the $50 options if your needs are modest but not as simple. And Apple is claiming the modest market while really only working for the simple market. Absolutely no disrespect to simple users intended : )

 

[djgamble]

I think iTunes has hit the size of what it does that it should be split back out into multiple Applications

iPod - your own music library
Music - Streaming music service
iRadio - The streaming radio
etc, depending on functionality

Also: start working on web applications for a few of these, like radio / music.

And finally fix the ridiculously large gaping memory leak hole that has existed in iTunes for what feels like a decade already.

I forget which version but I loved it back in the day when it was simple.

Like it or not, I have a library of music and many of the tunes aren't on Apple music, or ANY streaming service for that matter. It's quite common that I'll go to a jazz club, love the music, buy a CD and then rip it onto iTunes. Other music includes friends' demos (one particular demo CD is the early work of what is now a MASSIVE band in Australia... household name... so it is cool). Others? Music I made, music friends made for me, random vinyl I've collected...etc.

Just get that stuff out of my face, simplify the sorting of my music library, have an option to sync my iPhone and leave me alone. I swear the whole thing could be simplified biiig time.

Possibly make things like Apple Music plug-ins so that we can disable them if we don't use them. It's the same with iPhones TBH... there's so many features that I never use but am unable to disable. Back in the day such things used to make machines ususably slow... this is the problem with having devices that are faster than they need to be for your average user.

 

[dk001]

I'd like to see them spin off parts of their company (e.g. MainStage is fantastic... but why is Apple doing it?) so they can better focus on the stuff that matters; squishing bugs, getting cloud services up to snuff, developing web interfaces, releasing updated Airport hardware, etc. There are just too many chefs in too many kitchens and the entire operation is headed by a Cook.

Best comment of the tread

 

[navaira]

This is incorrect. I have a few albums from confidential enough Chinese bands which aren't available for streaming or for sale on Apple Music / iTunes (or any other online music service I have tried), and Apple Music does upload them and make them available across all my devices with no problem.

Works exactly in th same way as iTunes Match for me.

I am not saying there are no issues with incorrectly matched remixes (though this is not a problem I have personally encountered), but you are definitly incorrect in saying the album needs to be present in Apple Music. If it isn't iTunes will upload your own copy of the albums (which can be in MP3 or AAC, I don't think lossless is supported) to the cloud and make it available in your music library for streaming or download on all your device. I use this on a regular basis and it works well for me.

OK, let me rephrase this.

An album that is not available in Apple Music, but there is something vaguely resembling it available. For instance, a Greatest Hits collection (on AM) versus Live On Wembley official recording (not on AM). Indeed if there is nothing AM can possibly match even with its "this title sounds similar" algorythm, it will upload (tried with rare Dubstar tracks).

 

[Rogifan]

Mmm if you replace Maps with Music this sounds very much like Cue.

He should go too.

 

[rboy505]

For me personally it is really hard to use iTunes or the music app on iOS 9 these days. I sit there and cannot figure out the simplest things.

Same with me, and I'm the de facto "genius" in this house : ) I make very complicated software at work do my bidding and when I get home and try to make iTunes do something simple I give up after two minutes! But more to the point, my wife, daughters and mother all have Macs and none are especially computer savvy, which is to say they're all typical Generation-iPhone folks. And NONE of them use iTunes as any more than a holding zone and playback app. I tell them how they can explore using more than 10% of its functions but they don't do it. Too hard. The interface doesn't lend itself to it. So...I get why Apple doesn't care if I think iTunes is terrible, but if they think all the basic users think its great...well, what was that quote about rose colored glasses? : )

 

[pat500000]

The guy is a genius.

Enslaving us, huh? Lol

 

[iceperson]

Yes. People are serious about their music. And iTunes ****ed up my entire collection two times. I will never again let a program organize any of my files.

No kidding. iTunes and Apple Music are terribly counter intuitive. I keep end up with duplicate playlists, playlists that won't work (can I really not have a playlist with Apple music and music I own?), and things that should be caveman simple (like finding songs I've "loved" in apple music) seem to be impossible...

 

[Keirasplace]

Think of it more like how Facebook separated messaging and page management from news feed content. You can message somebody and it seamlessly opens up the messenger app (seamlessly provided your phone is less than 2 gens old). iTunes could do a similar thing. Store. Music & Podcasts. Videos. Each of these three things require completely different interfaces to manage properly, and right now they are all within a single application.

Right... "seamlessly" like taking 100% of you're phone's battery within a few hours... Facebook's app is a god damn mess, Itunes looks like some sparse design (which it isn't, it's also a mess, just a different kind) when you compare both.

 

[anshuvorty]

I listened to this podcast earlier today. Craig is great. When he was asked about radars he gave a completely honest answer and admitted that Apple needed to improve external communication on radars that are filed. Eddy was asked about BT keyboard support not being available for TV out of the box and about how bloated iTunes is and didn't really answer either one. Apparently Apple had "data" that not many people use BT keyboards with TV. Ok but did Eddy actually run though the setup of a new TV including downloading apps. If he did there's no possible way he could think entering passwords using that remote was a great customer experience. I wish Gruber would have probed a bit more on Apple's approach to, say, Photos vs iTunes (which keeps getting more and more bloated). But I suppose he has to be careful or he'll stop getting Apple execs on his show.

I agree with this assessment. When I was listening to the podcast for the 1st time, I felt like Eddy wasn't giving any concrete answers to the iTunes problem either. It was a feeling, but your assessment was spot on. They need to fix iTunes and do it quick, its quickly becoming a nightmare when one has to do a full system restore and iTunes is the only way to go about doing it. Takes forever to start and do this process!

 

[Michael Goff]

Forstall? The one who was screwing everything up before he left? The one who refused to apologize for the Maps fiasco? The one who was spending more time trying to consolidate power than make iOS a better platform?

Who knows, maybe he'd return a better manager. I think Jobs was better after he returned to Apple.

Wasn't the problem with maps the lack of data?

 

[anshuvorty]

OS X Dark Mode

Wrong thread pal!

 

[Manderby]

I actually haven't really used iTunes since the time I listened to music on my iPod Shuffle 2G and that one sadly died a few years ago. The application automatically opened when I plugged in my iPod to charge. Occasionally, I uploaded a new song to my shuffle which I downloaded from the Web. The store, the new streaming thingies, Match, Radio: I do not really care. I used the functionality of iTunes v1. It was a good music library program. But now... I can't even search in my own library anymore properly. But hey, I am a dinosaur. Power to the younger people!

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Think of it more like how Facebook separated messaging and page management from news feed content. You can message somebody and it seamlessly opens up the messenger app (seamlessly provided your phone is less than 2 gens old). iTunes could do a similar thing. Store. Music & Podcasts. Videos. Each of these three things require completely different interfaces to manage properly, and right now they are all within a single application.

Well I'm both too old and too young to be on FB so I can't relate. But I stand by my original post. ITunes worked fine before the makeover managing all media. The interface was crusty but it did the job. Now the interface is non-intuitive and functions buried in odd stacked menu options. Dividing iTunes by 3 just makes it even more of a convoluted experience. Apple just needs to clean up the interface.

 

[pier]

I start off with 16gig and after the boot is over almost 4 gig is used. I can bootcamp into Windows 10 and 1.5 gig is used. That is the point. Just saying....Bloated.....

This is my exact same experience. Windows 10, with all its defects, is a lot more optimized than OSX.
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I see no problem having everything in one app.

Neither does Homer Simpson.

 

[Jess13]

Wrong thread pal!

Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi spoke with John Gruber in this week's episode of "The Talk Show," where they commented on recent opinions that Apple's software isn't up to snuff and offered some details on a new version of iTunes coming in OS X 10.11.4.

Cue and Federighi went on to talk about the issues that arise whenever Apple makes major changes to software, as there are always people who prefer not to see significant changes. According to Federighi, there's a "tricky balancing act" with software updates.

"People are serious about their music and their collection, and so I think we debate pretty heavily internally the right way to evolve these things. We tend to err on the side of being pretty bold, but there's a lot of responsibility.

​

We were promised Dark Mode nearly a year ago, and we haven’t received it. At least, not in its err on the side of bold form, only menu bar and dock.

Light Mode is old, hence cobwebs. iMovie Dark Mode looks great. OS X, please.​

 

[bob24]

OK, let me rephrase this.

An album that is not available in Apple Music, but there is something vaguely resembling it available. For instance, a Greatest Hits collection (on AM) versus Live On Wembley official recording (not on AM). Indeed if there is nothing AM can possibly match even with its "this title sounds similar" algorythm, it will upload (tried with rare Dubstar tracks).

Fair enough, and yes definitely agreed the matching algorithm has many flaws Apple needs to fix (the issues I have had are not exactly the same as yours: it did mess-up some albums retagging a few songs as part of another album, provided the exact same recording or the song is present in the other album - for exemple if a song is present both on its original album and a best-of album; but in the instances I saw the version of the song was the exact same on both album whereas in your case it seems you even have issues with different recordings of the same song).

Apple definitely needs to address these things, but even though we agree there are gliches with it* (sadly, like in many other Apple applications) they do have a fully integrated library for iTunes purchases, ripped CDs, and streamed music.

If you haven't used it for a few months you might want to give it another try though, I does seem to me they have done some work on this and I haven't really had issues in the past 2 months.


* glitches which make it unusable to you - fair enough - but are acceptable to others

 

[adnbek]

He's barely competent as software VP. Scott Forstall needs to return and set things straight!

Enough with this stupid Forstall meme. iTunes was already a bloated mess during Forstall's reign.