Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Eddy Cue and Craig Federighi Discuss Bloated Software Accusations, Upcoming iTunes Plans
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Some metrics are easier to measure than others. If you try to WiFi sync an iOS device and the connection fails, it might not be that easy to tell why it failed. When something crashes, it generates a crash log. Federighi explicitly mentioned in the podcast that the crash rate (of Apple's apps) was lower in iOS 9.0 than in any version of iOS 8. This was thanks to the public beta of iOS which was first offered for iOS 9 which gave them many more crash reports (and other user-provided bug reports) than they got from the developer betas in previous iOS versions.
Reducing the number of app crashes is certainly a worthwhile goal but certainly not sufficient on its own. Another example that came up in this thread is home sharing. It is certainly possible for iOS (in beta versions but also shipping versions) to record failed attempts at connecting to home sharing. But when it fails, the fault might not lie in iOS or in anything particular to the iOS device at hand. It might lie with iTunes, with the networking stack of the Mac or PC hosting it, or with the WiFi router (or a combination of several factors). While the user might have enabled the iOS device to send Diagnostic & Usage data (in Settings under Privacy) that might not be enabled on the Mac; privacy rules might also prevent the data of those two devices to be matched by Apple. But even if that were not a problem, if the user has experienced problems with home sharing before, she or he might have largely given up on it and thus her or his devices wouldn't report any problems on home sharing back to Apple. Apple can try to account for it (but at some point might run into privacy limits) but if those people with configurations that run into trouble with home sharing do not even try to use at all, no feedback can be sent back to Apple.
But for sure, Apple can improve its metrics and changing the metrics might one of the most important elements in an attempt to improve the user experience but there are limits to how much change can be done in a given amount of time and given external circumstances (eg, how successful Apple is in attracting and retaining programming talent). One such circumstance is an existing code-base that dates back to days when the cloud was much less important (Google's background is certainly much more cloud-centric both in terms of code as well as programming talent). This is just to say that there are things top management can change relatively quickly and easily and there are things where it is much harder to affect change.
Note that all of the above is referring to software quality. Software design as in user interface and functionality is yet another topic.
[doublepost=1455409043][/doublepost]
My iTunes library is 450 GB though only about 120 GB of that is audio, the rest is movies and TV shows. And while there can be some slight sluggishness (on a 2012 dual-core laptop), I can hardly call it a very poor piece of software.
Disagree. Those aren't the issues. It should be a 1 stop shop for all things music....
It's magazines, videos, video rentals, and tons of other crap in there that needs to go.
No one wants to open 10 apps. And there is no reason you can't even have all the things in iTunes now work better.... but Apple just slaps on more crap and that's where it's become a bloated suckfest. It needs re-written from the ground up..... and they've never really done that.
I don't see why they need to split it into multiple apps--I actually like that it's all in one place. I get that that might not be ideal for a tablet or a phone, but these are not mobile devices we're talking about. I'm sick of everything becoming more "tablet-like" (despite laptops and desktops largely retaining their form). The iTunes app on OS X is geared toward laptop/desktop use and it's no trouble having it all in one place on such a device.
That's why it was great. It didn't do anything more than it needed to: an app for playing your music library. It was a perfect iPod player for the iPhone and iPad.
And it still doesn't do any more than it needs to, the needs have just increased. Seriously, the app would be how it is right now even if Forestall was in charge.
Is kernal panic the only bug the OS X can have?
[doublepost=1455411647][/doublepost]
I didn't listen to the podcast because I no longer like his ********. But I take your words. My point is that SL had less bugs than any of the new OS X which have been released in last five years (when Craig took over the OS X development). His ranting of last five years timeline is to only defend himself. We see developer and public betas are being seeded on a regular basis but when after months of testing the update is released, release notes only list one or two things being fixed. What's the point of seeding those betas and if they can only fix one or two things or worse sometime nothing except some security updates. No one cares if they keep the development secret but people care that bugs are fixed in a timely manner (which should not be a year).
Why didn't they call it beta? Anyway I think the biggest reason he was let go is because he didn't get along with others (rumors were he would openly bash other teams in front of his team) and was creating a fiefdom. Maybe that worked when Steve was running the show but wasn't working under Cook.
Yeah, they should have thrown beta on there.
Also, can't speak for how he got along with others. I was just saying the maps issue might not have been his fault if it was a data thing.
That's right that Forstall has nothing to do with iTunes, but people talking about him are referring to iOS and not iTunes.
That's exactly when I stopped listening. They talk about using their own software, but mention installing several OS builds per day and Federighi can go on for days about Swift and Obj C. That's getting the dog food out of the can, over and over. Experts with their own can opener. I hope they know how the food tastes.
It probably would have been him or Craig since they were in charge of Mac software while Forstall was on the iPhone team. Funny enough, Scott Forstall was an OS X software engineer until up to 2006, probably when iTunes was the "envy of the world" as Mossberg puts it.
But essentially my library is a combination of music I own prior to an Apple Music subscription, plus music I can access as part of AM.
If I am listening to an old album from my collection, and then want to listen to a newly released album on AM, I for one wouldn't want to switch apps. IMO having them combined is a big plus in the current software.
The area that I think needs most addressing is the Apple radio screens in iTunes on the desktop - its currently a terrible waste of screen real estate.
In the early years of iTunes I used and enjoyed it, even though it had some bugs. Then as reliability slipped and I was tired of having to continue using a cable to connect to my computer. Not long thereafter when wireless solutions were available I grew tired of Apple lagging behind and_still_ requiring a wired connection.
Now looking back I'm very happy that Apple grew stale. Just like my Androids at the time I left the USB cable behind and went wireless ditching iTunes altogether. Converting to pure wireless was a great move. Since every new Mac I buy each year has iTunes on it, I'm reminded how wonderful it is to not have to use it.
I know Apple is fully capable of redesigning iTunes making it a fantastic solution. Yet never held accountable by the devotees they just keep milking the same basic software with updates more like patches than a fresh new approach.
I do give Apple credit for their unique skill at determining just how much users will tolerate and still remain loyal to the Cupertino Co. It's how Apple continues to rake in fat profits.
Now looking back I'm very happy that Apple grew stale. Just like my Androids at the time I left the USB cable behind and went wireless ditching iTunes altogether. Converting to pure wireless was a great move. Since every new Mac I buy each year has iTunes on it, I'm reminded how wonderful it is to not have to use it.
I know Apple is fully capable of redesigning iTunes making it a fantastic solution. Yet never held accountable by the devotees they just keep milking the same basic software with updates more like patches than a fresh new approach.
I do give Apple credit for their unique skill at determining just how much users will tolerate and still remain loyal to the Cupertino Co. It's how Apple continues to rake in fat profits.
That would be a tiny library. Once you get into 10+TB range iTunes gets really really slow even with fast hardware.
The biggest problem is Home Sharing with iTunes. It works well as long as you never sleep the Mac and drives. Next is ATV OS, it's crap and needs serious bug fixes.
IOS and OSX pops up a message asking to update every friggin day until you finally pull out your last hair and say, "ok." So yah, everybody is on the latest software. I actually purchased a snow leopard machine a few months ago and using it is like heaven. The interface is far superior to what we have today. Unfortunately it doesn't have some of the necessary features that El Capitan has so it is hard to make it a day-to-day workstation.
[doublepost=1455425172][/doublepost]
I'm on El Capitan but I'm still running iPhoto as Photo's doesn't have the features I need. I hope iPhoto runs for a very long time while Photo's plays catch up. I've dabbled with google photos and the photo recognition is amazing. My question is, why can't Apple do that?
I agree with you.. take things back in a way:
IOS Sync Manager like we used to have
A Separate Video App would be okay, but necessary
And iTunes for Music, Radio
Unfortunately, the focus is on iOS because of the cash flows.. OS X dev is weak compared to what was happening last decade. Just take a look at Disk Utility and that says it all for me
This is why I love that they've started separating purpose on the latest tvOS. Music, Movies, and TV Shows are each their own separate tiles. Apple needs to do the same on other platforms. Split iTunes into different, purpose-specific apps... one for Music, one for Video, and another for Mobile/iOS Apps.
