Eddy Cue Wanted to Port iMessage to Android in 2013 According to Epic Deposition

[123]

I don’t see what is so controversial about App Store profitability.

It is not about profitability at all. It is about offering mandatory services at extraordinary prices. App distribution, content distribution, payment and accounting services are all nice if you want or need them. Like the other guy in the thread who said he's thankful for all the payment stuff being handled for him for 15%.

But companies like Epic and Spotify do not need these services. And therefore they should be allowed to opt out. Apple could then offer different, more tailored, more attractive packages. Like fully integrated payment for 5%. Which would be more in line with industry standard rates. Also, the same built-in mechanism could be used to pay for physical products too (which you cannot do now), probably making Apple even more money overall than now.

The result: Companies paying for services because they find them wothwile due to excellent usability and app integration with industry-leading, high conversion rates. Instead of having to pay mandatory fees for something they do not want.

 

[true god]

Forstall for President!

 

[GeoStructural]

And there we have it. Jobs won't ever have a chance to be clearer, but it sure sounds like Jobs never intended for the App Store (or "Services") to be how Apple made money.

Jobs never intended an App Store period, he was an advocate of Web Apps. He just conceded to the pressure and then accepted it was a good idea.

Jobs was also against iPhones having screens larger than 3.5-4.0 inches, iPads larger than 9.7" (citing a long study Apple made about what is "comfortable") and his famous opposition to a stylus.

 

[IG88]

In-App Purchases is the first time where Apple got super different about it - suddenly it wasn't about giving developers and users more and better choices. Suddenly Apple wanted to force everyone into giving them money.

Agreed. That's where the real pivot happened.

 

[mansplains]

Maybe if iMessage had been released on Android, I could finally get off this GD group thread that has Android users in it.

Man I hate seeing the green bubbles so much I made my own icon from scratch to replace it... iMessages have always been blue, why is the app icon the green reminding me of heinous android users 🤢

 

[hans1972]

And there we have it. Jobs won't ever have a chance to be clearer, but it sure sounds like Jobs never intended for the App Store (or "Services") to be how Apple made money.

Steve Jobs never wanted the App Store either.

 

[123]

Did you know that a lot of coding ide tools / libraries are often $1500-$4000? Apple is giving Xcode away. They are recouping the cost.

Did you know that:

1. Apple's Xcode is one of the worst IDEs?

2. Good IDEs and dev tools are actually in the hundreds, not in the thousands (look at JetBrains, for example)

3. There are tons of models to recoup costs without having to force everyone into using unwanted content and subscription payment schemes that have absolutely nothing to do with Apple's dev tools and infrastructure.

 

[mansplains]

Texting someone on an Android phone is the worst experience ever. Blackberry and Apple got it right... Google still hasn't. I've tried Google's app and plenty of 3rd party apps and they're all ugly interfaces. The junk keyboards on Android phones don't help the cause either.

Android emojis (I know plenty of people who use them) were also a joke until recently.

The crappy texting and typing experience in general always pushes me back to iPhone.

Don't forget all of the various messaging apps that have been canned over the years in Google's non-stop 'let's break what's relatively fixed' approach to software.. I'm looking at you Hangouts, Google Pay, etc. The only option I want iOS to adopt from Google keyboards is enabling haptics with tapping keys, I liked the tweak for it back when I used to jailbreak.

 

[na1577]

I'm still reading through Forstall's deposition but one interesting thing he mentions is that some of the apps shown off during the unveiling of the iPhone were web apps that were later rewritten as native apps before the iPhone launched (Weather and Stocks)

 

[Wackery]

I feel like epic is going to regret spending all this money on legal fees for what amounts to a petty dispute

 

[hans1972]

Why? Why can't Apple offer great hardware and services and tools for others to drive the platform without taking a cut from everything?

Why can't Google charge everyone for their services instead of showing ads? Businesses should be free to choose how they monetise their products and services.

Only a minority of developers have to pay Apple money based on income they get from their apps.

 

[BGPL]

That'd be nice for those of us who have Android work phones or friends that are still living in denial on Android devices. The green text threads get my OCD going 💯

 

[hans1972]

Did you know that:

3. There are tons of models to recoup costs without having to force everyone into using unwanted content and subscription payment schemes that have absolutely nothing to do with Apple's dev tools and infrastructure.

So which model would you suggest Apple should use and they would still make the same amount of money?

 

[icolove]

iMessage kept me on iOS for a long time, but I prefer Android and made the switch a bunch of years ago. I would pay whatever they charged for iMessage... Anything to get away from the Facebook properties and I find Signal to be unreliable. Oh well.... Nothing is ever perfect.

 

[edgonzalez32]

And there we have it. Jobs won't ever have a chance to be clearer, but it sure sounds like Jobs never intended for the App Store (or "Services") to be how Apple made money. Apple makes money by selling hardware which comes with great software included. They operate a store and an API that is supposed to make it easy for developers to make apps and for customers to receive apps, and they don't want it to be a money losing operation so obviously some small fees need to be collected, but at the end of the day, everything about the store should be in service of selling hardware.

And when the store gets in the way, alternative options should exist.

Apple never limited us to only putting music and videos from iTunes on the iPod - we could get them from anywhere, and Apple couldn't care less whether we pirated them or not. Their argument was that we could find the stuff on the iTunes store easier than via piracy, and so naturally it'd make sense for us to use it, but they didn't actually care. Jobs went as far as arguing against DRM and making everything about iTunes DRM free, so that everything would "just work". That was totally against the idea of them caring about making money via the store - only one person needed to buy it from iTunes, DRM free, and then they could distribute it however they wanted enabling piracy.

Apple gave developers an easy way to make money via iAds. Developers were free to use it, or not, and overwhelmingly they didn't.

In-App Purchases is the first time where Apple got super different about it - suddenly it wasn't about giving developers and users more and better choices. Suddenly Apple wanted to force everyone into giving them money.

Yeah, maybe the App Store was different, too, but I think that was intended to be short term, while Apple worked on their security model - if Jobs hadn't died, we would have seen Apple bring Gate Keeper from the Mac over to iOS 8 years ago.

It always surprises me how much people say “this would never happen if Steve were still alive.” I always viewed Steve as the more open/cross platform one out of all of them.

 

[mi7chy]

Need something reliable, that works on WIFI without a mobile phone plan and that's cross platform compatible so I'll stick with Google Voice.

 

[DEXTERITY]

Maybe if iMessage had been released on Android, I could finally get off this GD group thread that has Android users in it.

That is the worst. there has to be a way especially when people add you to some bs group chat you want no part of.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

I’m exclusively in the Apple ecosystem. iMessage for Android improves my Apple ecosystem experience right out of the box. iMessage for Android would so obviously end up on most Android phones, I could potentially have little need for third party chat apps.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Maybe if iMessage had been released on Android, I could finally get off this GD group thread that has Android users in it.

If Apple opened up iMessage to Android users it’s highly likely I wouldn’t have to use Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp or Signal either!

How exactly would this work for an Android user?

As an iPhone user... I use an app called "Messages" and I'm able to communicate via SMS to Android users and communicate via iMessage to other iPhone users using this single app.

But would Android users have to use this proposed Android iMessage app to communicate with just iPhones users and use another app to communicate with other Android people?

Or would this proposed Android iMessage app be able to become the default messaging app on Android?

 

[thedocbwarren]

Why should Apple?

I don’t see what is so controversial about App Store profitability. You mean to tell me that the App Store model would suddenly be okay if it were to break even or even be run at a loss?

Epic is clearly grasping at straws here.

Agreed. It's a business, they own the business and offer a service. See nothing wrong with it.

 

[WiseAJ]

iMessage kept me on iOS for a long time, but I prefer Android and made the switch a bunch of years ago. I would pay whatever they charged for iMessage... Anything to get away from the Facebook properties and I find Signal to be unreliable. Oh well.... Nothing is ever perfect.

They charge the price of an iPhone for iMessage. lol.

 

[Jony Ive and Co.]

Wait, if I did not misread the article, is Eddie Cue saying things AGAINST Apple? As an incumbent exec, shouldn't he not say these things and act in a way that does not benefit Apple in the trial?

 

[ejin222]

I'm an App publisher and I make good money from the App Store. One misunderstanding that is pervasive amongst App Store users is that App publishers, like myself, can issue refunds and have control over the payment system.
Every so often I'll get a an app support email saying something like "I would like a refund this app was downloaded by accident". (yeah, sure...)
Being able to re-direct them to Apple's support people is worth the 15% alone.
The other great benefits I get are 1) not having to collect local/national sales tax 2) offering payment in local currency and no currency exchange overhead. 3) dealing with credit card companies, paying outrageous "charge back" fees/fines etc
Those 4 things alone are worth 15%.
If you are paying 30% WTF are you crying about? I wish I was in the 30% category.

I appreciate this insight from an actual developer. So many comments are people's opinions. Reading this comment makes me more appreciative of Apple.

 

[na1577]

I'm still reading through Forstall's deposition but one interesting thing he mentions is that some of the apps shown off during the unveiling of the iPhone were web apps that were later rewritten as native apps before the iPhone launched (Weather and Stocks)

Another interesting tidbit: Apple tried to work with Adobe and did actually test Flash on iOS internally but Forstall says the performance was abysmal.

 

[Feyl]

This lawsuit is a great thing. I’m looking forward to read what Scott Forstall will say.