Embrace the change, fools!

[KohPhiPhi]

I totally agree with the original poster. The DVD drive takes like 25% of the MBP size, plus it adds to the thickness, and it doesn't help with the thermals, and it's used like twice a year most by 90% of Apple users. So a $50 USB drive seems a better solution than having it built-in.

It's inevitable: Apple will ditch it for the 2012 models.

 

[/user/me]

There's a lot of moaning about the potential 2012 MBP redesign, too much moaning.


People need to get with the times, forget about legacy technology like ODD's and start living in the 21st century.
If you're stuck in some industry that still needs that sort of legacy support then perhaps you should consider moving to another brand of computer - one that's less cutting edge.
Or maybe learn how to do drive sharing on a network?
Or get an external drive if you're the 5% of people still using the space hog known as the ODD.

That thing must take up 30% of the chassis, or more - it NEEDS to go.


Stop holding development back by whining about your legacy support.
Lets just hope apple has the sense not to listen to all the bleating and moaning.

"Oh the pro machines the pro machines!" you whine - you're very likely not a 'pro' anyway.
Dicking around in photoshop with your sepia toned pictures of your local starbucks coffee house doesn't make you a 'pro' user folks.
Unless you're doing really heavy video processing or some crazy physics simulations then you'll be fine.

No ODD = More battery space (potentially), slimmer design, better thermals in the thinner design = more processing power anyway.


GIVE UP ON LEGACY CRAP!

Thank you so much for your insightful declaration of what I need as a consumer.

Now that that's done. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Don't ****h because doesn't do what you want...

Also:

 

[leman]

How long ago did you perform the survey in your department, and why?

On what do you base the statement that less than five percent of the MacBook Pro users regularly use their ODD?

And a personal reflection; you seem to have very limited imagination.

I didn't do any "survey", what I said is based on my personal observation. We do have an extensive CD/DVD cabinet with software, which is incidentally in my office — and nobody ever uses that, because all important software is stored as img files on our server.

My imagination may be limited, but its at least healthy. I have hard time imagining that a sane person would carry around a bunch of bulky, unpractical, easy-to-damage and most importantly SLOW optical disks when they can simply get a fast external HDD for more or less comparable money.

You say that many people still use optical media. But enlighten me please: what exactly is a justifiable modern use for an ODD, aside from reinstalling the OS? Yes, optical media has had its application in the past, but any of the common uses (backups, data archivation, data sharing) simply does not make any sense, neither practically nor economically, in the age of cheap external drives, fast internet and flash memory. And if you are someone who has to print optical media for living, such as doing audio CDs (do these things still exists??) or similar — you will be using industrial CD-baking machine anyway.

 

[/user/me]

I didn't do any "survey", what I said is based on my personal observation. We do have an extensive CD/DVD cabinet with software, which is incidentally in my office — and nobody ever uses that, because all important software is stored as img files on our server.

My imagination may be limited, but its at least healthy. I have hard time imagining that a sane person would carry around a bunch of bulky, unpractical, easy-to-damage and most importantly SLOW optical disks when they can simply get a fast external HDD for more or less comparable money.

You say that many people still use optical media. But enlighten me please: what exactly is a justifiable modern use for an ODD, aside from reinstalling the OS? Yes, optical media has had its application in the past, but any of the common uses (backups, data archivation, data sharing) simply does not make any sense, neither practically nor economically, in the age of cheap external drives, fast internet and flash memory. And if you are someone who has to print optical media for living, such as doing audio CDs (do these things still exists??) or similar — you will be using industrial CD-baking machine anyway.

You mention carrying around an external drive with everything that you need on it already, but how would that get there without an ODD?? It's not magic, and it sure as eff doesn't work by osmosis. and yes, audio cds do "exists"

 

[leman]

You mention carrying around an external drive with everything that you need on it already, but how would that get there without an ODD??

If you have soem data on your ODD which must be transferred to an external HDD, you can simply plug in an external usb ODD drive while your are at home/office/whatever. Once. And be done with it. Nor reason to carry around the balast the ODD is.

And as to audio CDs, there is this thing called "digital music" which is far superior in both quality and practicality. Use it. I mean, why won't people complain that the MBP has no in-build cassette recorder? Or serial port? Or a toster - that can be useful occasionally, when you are on a business trip!

And these people tell me "I have no imagination"

 

[/user/me]

If you have soem data on your ODD which must be transferred to an external HDD, you can simply plug in an external usb ODD drive while your are at home/office/whatever. Once. And be done with it. Nor reason to carry around the balast the ODD is.

And as to audio CDs, there is this thing called "digital music" which is far superior in both quality and practicality. Use it. I mean, why won't people complain that the MBP has no in-build cassette recorder? Or serial port? Or a toster - that can be useful occasionally, when you are on a business trip!

And these people tell me "I have no imagination"

As to this argument, there's this thing called "trite and pointless" which just serves to waste everyone's time both paid and unpaid.

If you don't need the ODD, then buy an Air. Don't presume to know that you know what's best for everyone.

 

[leman]

As to this argument, there's this thing called "trite and pointless" which just serves to waste everyone's time both paid and unpaid.

If you don't need the ODD, then buy an Air. Don't presume to know that you know what's best for everyone.

So far no proponent of the ODD in this thread was actually able to come up with a reasonable explanation why they would need it (aside from occasional use, where an external drive would suffice). All we hear is the generic "we need it".

As to "buy an Air": I don't need the Air. I need a light, portable laptop with a powerful CPU/GPU combination. Right now, the integrated ODD is what keeps the MBP back.

By the way, this whole discussion is pointless anyway, because Apple will be dropping ODD support on the MBP soon enough, if not this generation then the next one. Everything points to it - they already dropped the ODD from the MacMini, they distribute all their content in digital form. If you like it or not, optical media has become obsolete in the current Apple ecosystem. And I don't believe that a practical and innovatory company such as Apple, who is known to quickly drop support of legacy stuff, will support such a bulky thing as an integrated ODD for a long time just because some users believe that they need optical media.

 

[/user/me]

So far no proponent of the ODD in this thread was actually able to come up with a reasonable explanation why they would need it (aside from occasional use, where an external drive would suffice). All we hear is the generic "we need it".

As to "buy an Air": I don't need the Air. I need a light, portable laptop with a powerful CPU/GPU combination. Right now, the integrated ODD is what keeps the MBP back.

By the way, this whole discussion is pointless anyway, because Apple will be dropping ODD support on the MBP soon enough, if not this generation then the next one. Everything points to it - they already dropped the ODD from the MacMini, they distribute all their content in digital form. If you like it or not, optical media has become obsolete in the current Apple ecosystem. And I don't believe that a practical and innovatory company such as Apple, who is known to quickly drop support of legacy stuff, will support such a bulky thing as an integrated ODD for a long time just because some users believe that they need optical media.

I guess we'll have to see what happens because Apple hasn't released specs, and just because you say they're going to doesn't mean they will.

I think you meant innovative? You're right - Apple is very innovative, but I'm looking at the side of my late 2011 mbp, and I see a firewire port... I mean the firewire is about 10-15 years newer than ODDs, but I've never EVER had to use firewire on my computer in the last 15 years... Yet here it is... If they're so keen on getting rid of legacy tech, why do I have a Firewire port?

 

[leman]

I think you meant innovative?

Thanks, that was a typo + non-native speaker

You're right - Apple is very innovative, but I'm looking at the side of my late 2011 mbp, and I see a firewire port... I mean the firewire is about 10-15 years newer than ODDs, but I've never EVER had to use firewire on my computer in the last 15 years... Yet here it is... If they're so keen on getting rid of legacy tech, why do I have a Firewire port?

Two reasons.

a) Firewire is Apple tech, they get royalties from each sold Firewire-enabled device.

b) Firewire is substantially faster than USB2, which for long time was the only viable alternative. Having a fast external HDD connection is a real benefit to professional users (large photo/video/sound editing).

Still, right now, FW is being superseded by USB3 and Thunderbolt, so it is indeed becoming a legacy component. I expect Apple to drop FW as soon as their laptops have USB3 support or shortly thereafter.

 

[/user/me]

Just because it's apple's tech, doesn't mean that nobody uses it or that it's not outdated..... They should have gotten rid of it long ago.

 

[Musicore]

Firewire is important for audio and video devices which are still being manufactured to this day with Firewire ports. It makes it difficult for prosumer level audio engineers being depreciated. But if you've never connected a digital interface to your PC, you've probably never used it.

 

[leman]

Just because it's apple's tech, doesn't mean that nobody uses it or that it's not outdated..... They should have gotten rid of it long ago.

And replace it with what? There were no alternatives for a long time. Right now, they are replacing it with Thunderbolt.

 

[/user/me]

And replace it with what? There were no alternatives for a long time. Right now, they are replacing it with Thunderbolt.

Ethernet - Although I'm not sure how long has had gigabit ports. If it's been more than two years, they could have gotten rid of it in 2010.

 

[leman]

Ethernet - Although I'm not sure how long has had gigabit ports. If it's been more than two years, they could have gotten rid of it in 2010.

Replace firewire with ethernet? You are trolling, right?

 

[/user/me]

Replace firewire with ethernet? You are trolling, right?

Nope, considering how even the mbp from 2008 had gigabit ethernet and the firewire is only 800mb/s... if i remember how numbers work, gigabit is faster than 800mb/s because i'm pretty sure that 1000 is bigger than 800... Could be wrong though.

 

[Freyqq]

I would be fine with no ODD in a new macbook pro as long as an external is included or available for cheap from apple (under $40).

I'd also be fine with replacing the firewire 800 port with an additional thunderbolt port as long as a thunderbolt-firewire 800 adapter is available. It would be nice to be able to drive 2 displays without having to drop $1000 a piece on mac thunderbolt monitors.

The interesting thing will be to see what it is replaced with. I'd like to see a bigger battery, better graphics, and/or a spot for a second hard drive. The last thing, though, is most unlikely.

 

[soco]

GIVE UP ON LEGACY CRAP!

I hear ya, but...

 

[leman]

Nope, considering how even the mbp from 2008 had gigabit ethernet and the firewire is only 800mb/s... if i remember how numbers work, gigabit is faster than 800mb/s because i'm pretty sure that 1000 is bigger than 800... Could be wrong though.

Ethernet is a networking technology, it works in a different way, it has a high setup overhead, and overall its a completely different pair of shoes. I am not even talking that it has much higher latency than Firewire connection. Do you really think people would still develop new USB standards if Ethernet were answer to all questions?

 

[wonderspark]

So far no proponent of the ODD in this thread was actually able to come up with a reasonable explanation why they would need it (aside from occasional use, where an external drive would suffice). All we hear is the generic "we need it".

As to "buy an Air": I don't need the Air.

A recent use for the ODD was for people with MacBook Pros that freaked out when they needed to update the firmware on the Crucial M4 SSD drives installed. It was required to update it with an internally installed disk. Plugged in externals didn't work. If you didn't update it, the SSD was said to shut down after 5000 hours for some reason. People were enraged that they had to find another computer with an internal ODD, remove the SSD from the Mac, install it in the second computer, and do the firmware update before their SSD bricked. If you search the Crucial SSD forums, you'll find it under "firmware 309."

This could have been avoided by better thinking on the part of Crucial, although they did say they were working on a solution last I read. I didn't have to worry, because I have an internal ODD and therefore no problems updating the firmware.

The point of this cool-story-bro is that sometimes, you can find yourself wishing you had an OPTION. People who cry for the removal of options aren't thinking things through, or just think the world revolves around their needs, and everyone else can go **** a kite.

1) Ripping music/movies
2) Burning music/movies/photos for others/festivals/clients
3) ???
4) Profit
5) Firmware updates
6) Application/program installs

There are four good reasons not to remove the option to get a Mac with an ODD... six reasons if you're an underpants gnome.

 

[leman]

The point of this cool-story-bro is that sometimes, you can find yourself wishing you had an OPTION. People who cry for the removal of options aren't thinking things through, or just think the world revolves around their needs, and everyone else can go **** a kite.

1) Ripping music/movies
2) Burning music/movies/photos for others/festivals/clients
3) ???
4) Profit
5) Firmware updates
6) Application/program installs

There are four good reasons not to remove the option to get a Mac with an ODD... six reasons if you're an underpants gnome.

Great example. All your usage cases is something people do only rarely. All of them can be easily accommodated by using an external ODD drive (that Crucial story aside, if the manufacturer is unable to provide a proper firmware update agent, its surely not Apple's fault). Its not about removing an option, its about making it an option and not a dead weight (which it is 99% of the time). For something which is used only occasionally, the ODD blocks 25% of the internal space, which could be used for much more useful (on daily base) things as more battery, better GPU, more USB ports, less weight etc.

You still have the option to use optical media, just as you have the option of using wide range of peripherals. Thats what extension ports are for. I mean, hey, having a scanner can be useful. You won't expect Apple to integrate a small scanner in your MBP, do you?

 

[wonderspark]

Great example. All your usage cases is something people do only rarely. All of them can be easily accommodated by using an external ODD drive (that Crucial story aside, if the manufacturer is unable to provide a proper firmware update agent, its surely not Apple's fault). Its not about removing an option, its about making it an option and not a dead weight (which it is 99% of the time). For something which is used only occasionally, the ODD blocks 25% of the internal space, which could be used for much more useful (on daily base) things as more battery, better GPU, more USB ports, less weight etc.

You still have the option to use optical media, just as you have the option of using wide range of peripherals. Thats what extension ports are for. I mean, hey, having a scanner can be useful. You won't expect Apple to integrate a small scanner in your MBP, do you?

As long as we're in agreement that Apple should continue to build them with a built-in ODD option, then there's nothing to debate. As soon as you say they should stop offering them built-in, I'll refer you back to the version they created just for you... the Air.

 

[danny_w]

Great example. All your usage cases is something people do only rarely. All of them can be easily accommodated by using an external ODD drive (that Crucial story aside, if the manufacturer is unable to provide a proper firmware update agent, its surely not Apple's fault). Its not about removing an option, its about making it an option and not a dead weight (which it is 99% of the time). For something which is used only occasionally, the ODD blocks 25% of the internal space, which could be used for much more useful (on daily base) things as more battery, better GPU, more USB ports, less weight etc.

You still have the option to use optical media, just as you have the option of using wide range of peripherals. Thats what extension ports are for. I mean, hey, having a scanner can be useful. You won't expect Apple to integrate a small scanner in your MBP, do you?

When has Apple ever saved space on something and given that space to you for something else like a battery? This is not the Apple way. Count on it, if they remove the ODD you will NOT get anything in its place, you will get a thinner case.

 

[wonderspark]

What I think is more problematic is that Apple stopped making the MacBook Pro battery removable. If you're a journalist out in the wilderness of a warzone or something, you used to be able to bring several charged batteries with you, but not anymore, thanks to Apple making them internal. That's one change I'm not embracing.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

What I think is more problematic is that Apple stopped making the MacBook Pro battery removable. If you're a journalist out in the wilderness of a warzone or something, you used to be able to bring several charged batteries with you, but not anymore, thanks to Apple making them internal. That's one change I'm not embracing.

We are all "journalists out in the wilderness of a warzone or something". Not?

;-)

 

[leman]

What I think is more problematic is that Apple stopped making the MacBook Pro battery removable. If you're a journalist out in the wilderness of a warzone or something, you used to be able to bring several charged batteries with you, but not anymore, thanks to Apple making them internal. That's one change I'm not embracing.

This I agree with, replaceable battery was useful — it was fun at long conferences where you had no power outlets...

Well, let's hope that Apple removes the ODD and puts the replaceable battery back in