Epic CEO Tim Sweeney Admits App Store's 30% Cut Is Similar to Consoles, Would Have Accepted Special Deal With Apple

[I7guy]

Anyone rooting for Apple, Steam or any other platform for taking 30% from game sales, are a bunch of corporate shills. This practice needs to end, and the Epic and Microsoft stores have at least taken steps to improve the revenue for game companies - esp. considering computer games' ever-increasing complexity and production expenses.

How many billions of dollars do Apple and Steam really need to snatch up from other people's hard work, by simply offering a distribution platform? 12-15% would be a more sensical revenue cut, but keep pushing your fake politically correct messaging Apple, trying to cover up the fact that you are a bunch of greedy money hoarders.

The flip side is offering independent devs a chance to make a healthy living for the labor of coding and $99. The chance to reach Apples' 1 billion active devices and have a complete management platform. To me the 15%/30% doesn't seem out of line at all.

But I wonder how many take issue with other business' margins and examine their margins under a microscope? And figure out what a more sensible margin would be for that business. The "corporate shills" you speak of might have a point.

 

[Abazigal]

Anyone rooting for Apple, Steam or any other platform for taking 30% from game sales, are a bunch of corporate shills. This practice needs to end, and the Epic and Microsoft stores have at least taken steps to improve the revenue for game companies - esp. considering computer games' ever-increasing complexity and production expenses.

My own (admittedly very rough) napkin math estimates that Apple would need to charge 20% minimum in order for the App Store to break even (after accounting for the annual developer fees).

So as a consumer, I support a 30% cut that will go towards ensuring the continued viability and vitality of the iOS App Store, which in turn goes towards a better experience for me, the end user. Especially when any reduction in this is not going to result in a lower app price for me anyways.

Companies like epic and Microsoft don’t have anywhere near the support or the reach of the App Store. It’s easy to charge less when you are doing less for the money.

 

[technole]

I tend to stop paying attention to those that include “y’all” in their speech anyway.

Epic is a Raleigh, NC area company. Welcome to the South.

 

[littlebobbytables]

Find me a developer who has swooped in and had the success that Fornite had on iOS before all of these shenanigans.

Minecraft, Angry Birds, Flappy Bird to name a few

 

[Mojohanna32]

I tend to stop paying attention to those that include “y’all” in their speech anyway.

They are in NC, give them a break.

 

[technole]

In a way it’s ironic that Sony can strong arm Timmy on cross play and using PSN store for currency because they are the market leader in consoles. He is going to see the same fate from Apple.

 

[cmaier]

I figured Epic would abandon the Apple platforms if they don't win, just cause - and Sweeney confirms it on Day 2.

Guessing he's also counting on being able to use GeForce Now to serve those customers on Apple platforms without developing for them. Makes me wonder if he'll drop Android as well a bit down the road. A pity since iOS rocks for games on mobile.



There's always going to be stuff that gets through, always. It's just that it gets through alot less than on Google Play and on the open field that is the install from anywhere DOS/Windows/Mac model. And people want the App Store's model. And it'll get better as time goes on.

To be fair, what he was actually asked was what would happen if the judge decided that Apple could kick unreal engine out of the App Store.

And his answer of “well then I guess we’re out” was not the answer the judge was looking for - she prefaced the question as a matter of equity. What he should have said was “well, then I guess we would reluctantly have to comply with Apple’s rules in order to return to the App Store.”

 

[PlayUltimate]

I guess the worst case scenario, for Epic, is that things go back to 2020 and Epic pays again the 30%. Apple would have a difficult time justifying keeping Epic off the platform if Epic was willing to follow the rules. Thus the only real loss is a bit of time, some revenue, and maybe lawyer fees, that both companies can afford.
And Apple would have to let Epic back to avoid being seen as having a predatory monopoly; which is illegal.

However, for Apple, each little class action, government report, developer whining is adding a fuel to the fire that is building under Apple's business model. I suspect something will eventually change; just not too sure what.

 

[technole]

I guess the worst case scenario, for Epic, is that things go back to 2020 and Epic pays again the 30%. Apple would have a difficult time justifying keeping Epic off the platform if Epic was willing to follow the rules. Thus the only real loss is a bit of time, some revenue, and maybe lawyer fees, that both companies can afford.
And Apple would have to let Epic back to avoid being seen as having a predatory monopoly; which is illegal.

However, for Apple, each little class action, government report, developer whining is adding a fuel to the fire that is building under Apple's business model. I suspect something will eventually change; just not too sure what.

Apple will allow Fortnite back immediately, he just has to get rid of the App Store violation, the option to buy vbucks from Epic as opposed from App Store. The issue is Fortnite is a F2P game and he’s sick of paying 30% for all those micros, yet he’s paying that elsewhere too. I get that he wants more profits but I can’t see a judge saying Apple is doing anything wrong here, since Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all charge the same.

 

[diamond.g]

To be fair, what he was actually asked was what would happen if the judge decided that Apple could kick unreal engine out of the App Store.

And his answer of “well then I guess we’re out” was not the answer the judge was looking for - she prefaced the question as a matter of equity. What he should have said was “well, then I guess we would reluctantly have to comply with Apple’s rules in order to return to the App Store.”

It was why I asked what happens if Epic pulls all it stuff and goes home. Seems like they have admitted that is what they are going to do.

 

[planteater]

Epic needs to call the Hammer, because this is definitely a train wreck for them.

 

[cmaier]

It was why I asked what happens if Epic pulls all it stuff and goes home. Seems like they have admitted that is what they are going to do.

Well I think “admit” is to strong a word. I think it’s pretty clear that if they lose, they will return to the App Store with their tail between their legs. I don’t think he really intends to take his ball and go home - why leave all that money on the table? Certainly not as a matter of principle - after all, we know he’s full of crap when he said he really wanted to help all developers, since under oath he admitted he would have taken a special deal for Epic.

 

[ios-dan]

Which begs the question, why didn't Sweeney ask for a deal? Was he too lazy? Or needed the publicity?

Apple didn’t give any special deals to even Netflix. For a ver long time you couldn’t sign up for Amazon Prime Video on iOS for similar reasons. If Apple wasn’t giving breaks to Netflix and Amazon, why would he think Epic would get a break?

 

[Cosmosent]

Seems like a major strategic blunder on Epic's part.

NOT sure they thought it through before firing the first salvo.

Does Apple have a Monopoly ?

Of course they do.

Is it possible for ANY company in the Apple Ecosystem to win a Price War with Apple in Court ?

NOT likely.

Are there other ways that the App Store could be broken up (that might achieve the same end result) ?

Yes, intentional suppression of third-party app innovation !

If it can be proven (in Court) that Apple intentionally suppressed third-party app innovation for their own benefit, Apple will lose control / ownership of the App Store, & Tim Cook will probably lose his AAPL Board seat.

But, that's NOT this case, it's NOT the Epic vs Apple court case in the headlines today, & for the next three ? weeks.

That case is on the horizon, quietly building steam !

Apple needs competition in App Discovery !

That, in turn, will lead to reduced commissions !!

Apple has, in the recent past, made strategic blunders of their own !

 

[Astralis56]

This made me laugh😂

 

[I7guy]

Seems like a major strategic blunder on Epic's part.

NOT sure they thought it through before firing the first salvo.

Does Apple have a Monopoly ?

Of course they do.

Is it possible for ANY company in the Apple Ecosystem to win a Price War with Apple in Court ?

NOT likely.

Are there other ways that the App Store could be broken up (that might achieve the same end result) ?

Yes, intentional suppression of third-party app innovation !

If it can be proven (in Court) that Apple intentionally suppressed third-party app innovation for their own benefit, Apple will lose control / ownership of the App Store, & Tim Cook will probably lose his AAPL Board seat.

But, that's NOT this case, it's NOT the Epic vs Apple court case in the headlines today, & for the next three ? weeks.

That case is on the horizon, quietly building steam !

Apple needs competition in App Discovery !

That, in turn, will lead to reduced commissions !!

Apple has, in the recent past, made strategic blunders of their own !

Doesn't seem to be going that way. But it's only the first two days.

 

[Abazigal]

It’s really ironic.

Maybe the iOS App Store really does have issues of its own. However, you could not have looked for a worst champion than Epic who is by their very own admission only interested in burning the current App Store model to the ground so they can offer their own App Store on iOS devices and charge other game developers a commission.

Epic is not doing any of this to empower developers or to level the playing field. If they did, they would have supported and encouraged the slow but sure trajectory of change that Apple was moving towards, instead of flaunting App Store rules so blatantly.

For all we know, Epic may have just made things worse for everyone else. Because when Epic loses (and it will), Apple will have even less incentive to make concessions to developers because Apple will see its legal victory as proof of its unassailable authority over the iOS App Store.

 

[djlythium]

I tend to stop paying attention to those that include “y’all” in their speech anyway.

Okay, I’ll bite: why?

 

[diamond.g]

Well I think “admit” is to strong a word. I think it’s pretty clear that if they lose, they will return to the App Store with their tail between their legs. I don’t think he really intends to take his ball and go home - why leave all that money on the table? Certainly not as a matter of principle - after all, we know he’s full of crap when he said he really wanted to help all developers, since under oath he admitted he would have taken a special deal for Epic.

Outside of fortnite Apple platform is Unity Central. No one uses UE. So what money? Lol.

 

[randyhudson]

Wow I love that bit about the Metal API. Clearly something Apple worked hard to invent and provide, that is exclusive to its platforms, that directly benefited Epic, as they said in their own words. It perfectly reinforces Apple’s argument that App Store fees help fund not just distribution costs but also powerful and unique benefits to developers within their ecosystem.

And yet Metal API can be used for free by apps written for macOS. Why? And there are equivalent APIs you can use for free on Windows. I don’t think you understand the case.

 

[AF_APPLETALK]

Someone call Aaron Sorkin...

Please no. That movie was one of the most cringe of the 2010s. Aside from its cheesiness, it didn’t come close to effectively telling the story as well as Pirates of the Silicon Valley.

POTSV still reigns supreme.

 

[cmaier]

And yet Metal API can be used for free by apps written for macOS. Why?

Because apple makes up for that by selling macs for a higher margin and/or factoring it into the margin for apps that DO pay App Store commissions (including on iOS).

SDKs are not toll roads. There’s no requirement that Apple charges per-use.

 

[nouvejetzt]

EPIC failure!

 

[sidewinder3000]

"We would have to live with not supporting the iOS platform," he said.

He means users would have to live with Epic not supporting iOS. Users like our kid, who had to spend their lawn mowing money on a Switch solely to play Fortnite with his friends who he couldn’t see in person because of a global pandemic. This is a dishonest man with a gigantic ego who doesn’t care about developers, or users, he only cares about his delusional ideas for domination. I’d love to see Epic oust this guy.

 

[sidewinder3000]

lol zero control... as said many times Apples AppStore would not stop to exist.

The ones that fears the dark night, can still keep buying Software at higher prices from the walled garden.
They could also just try to revive their brains, and use it just like others did the last decades on other platforms, before the AppStore 2007 existed.

I wonder how Senior Android Users survives with their Android and all these filthy Hax0rs around them, they must have taken some hardcore survival training.

You are hardly making a good argument by relying on fringe use cases. The vast, massive majority of users don’t want to think about the safety of the apps they buy, and most would have no idea how to verify their trustworthiness.