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Epic Games Accuses Apple of Charging 'Unjustified Fees' for Required Non-App Store Purchase Link
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They offer Fortnite on many computer platforms, even on Macs. They don't need to force users to spend more money for a game. Users have invested money already and decided for a certain computer platform. Their investment need to be protected. And iPads and iPhones are also a computer platform for many people. You can't just deny a software company access if they are not willing to pay you a cut from their revenue. It is really mafia-like: "you pay or you can't have your business".
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I have developed it for iOS because customers demanded it. They don't want to equip each user with an iPad and a Windows tablet.
iPads, iPhones, Galaxy tablets or phones are no longer accessories. They are the main computers. They are essential tools in todays' world. And a company cannot just act as a "pi.p" in between and ask for your money.
When some of our customers decided to go with iPads, they were not aware of the fact that our software needed to be ported. Customers do not look at it this way, and their investments need to be protected. EU thankfully started to ensure this.
Of course you can. It's how the software industry has worked since day 1.
Epic will deny me access to use Unreal Engine if I don't pay them a cut from my revenue.
Yet answer this, consumers have a choice to purchase an iPhone or not purchase an iPhone.
what is it that requires you to purchase apple products or develop for apple products.
what is it that absolutley forces you to buy a Mac over a Wintel PC.
what is it that absolutely forces you to buy an iPhone over an Android OS phone.
preferences means that you prefer to use an Apple product not that couldn’t use an alternative.
I purchase apple products because of what they are, not despite what they are.
I like to play world of warships. When I started there was a Mac OS version available however I still bought a Wintel system to run the game and a few others since.
it is called buying be right product to do the job. If apple products don’t get the job done for you don’t buy them.
i can walk into a shopping centre games store and pick up a Fortnite box:
Epic would be paying this store at least 30% commission to do this.
It's a vouchure. In a physical store.
They have no issue doing this.
why is giving Apple (another point of customer contact) any different?
Fortnite - Transformers Pack (Code-In-A-Box)
$39.95Epic would be paying this store at least 30% commission to do this.
It's a vouchure. In a physical store.
They have no issue doing this.
why is giving Apple (another point of customer contact) any different?
this epic saga keeps on going.. i don't see any issue, am i that naive?
as far as i know, the app store rules over the year have become easier, started with 30% fees always, know recurring is reduces after a year and for small developers it's reduced as well. epic knew the price apple was charging when they signed up and started developing for iOS i don't get why suddenly it became such a problem?
from spotify i can understand the case, they have high royalty costs etc.. however epic just sells there own developed digital goods (which is a one time developing costs, but same costs if the sell just 1 or 1 million).
i'm not saying, apple's app store practises are perfect, but if apple has to create a level play field, i guess all the social media apps should start paying per download as well? and what about all other free apps?
as a developer you have the option not to develop for iOS, if you want a piece of the pie apple is happy to let you in, but why not charge you for getting a piece of the pie?
i'm a believer in open marketplaces, competitors make for better products. let's see and find out in the eu how many people will end up installing a 3rd party app store (wild guess? < 5%) it's a perfect place for apple to test this hypothesis.
as far as i know, the app store rules over the year have become easier, started with 30% fees always, know recurring is reduces after a year and for small developers it's reduced as well. epic knew the price apple was charging when they signed up and started developing for iOS i don't get why suddenly it became such a problem?
from spotify i can understand the case, they have high royalty costs etc.. however epic just sells there own developed digital goods (which is a one time developing costs, but same costs if the sell just 1 or 1 million).
i'm not saying, apple's app store practises are perfect, but if apple has to create a level play field, i guess all the social media apps should start paying per download as well? and what about all other free apps?
as a developer you have the option not to develop for iOS, if you want a piece of the pie apple is happy to let you in, but why not charge you for getting a piece of the pie?
i'm a believer in open marketplaces, competitors make for better products. let's see and find out in the eu how many people will end up installing a 3rd party app store (wild guess? < 5%) it's a perfect place for apple to test this hypothesis.
If Apple isn’t allowed to charge companies for hosting their apps, who’s gonna pay for apples servers, developers, and customer service? Epic is a freaking joke and needs to go away.
Because the commission is mostly about rent seeking not payment processing costs. If it’s not this it’s the core technology fee. Apple will get its money one way or another unless a government law/regulation forbids them to.
This isn’t about hosting or infrastructure or developer support this is about companies being successful and Apple thinking they’re responsible and thus deserve a portion of said company’s success. And also Apple believing you’re not a customer of an app developer your a customer of Apple’s and they own the relationship with you. ATP had a great podcast about this last week.
The point is that iPads and iPhones are computer platforms and as such need to be dealt with. I already mentioned it in another post: Apple has been advertising iPads as computers. Do you remember "What is a computer" campaign from Apple?
Nobody is forced to buy a certain computer. But you can't harm consumers by forcing them to buy multiple devices for each software, especially if the software provider is willing to develop it for each platform. But as the computer manufacturer you can't get from a 3rd party’s revenue just because you managed to convince a consumer to buy your device!
It took EU lawmakers too long, but finally they understood that phones and tablets are general computers. This is a very good first step.
Do you think any car manufacturer would be allowed to ask fuel stations to pay a cut from their revenue by adding a special equipment which would only open the tank if you had agreed to pay 30% of your revenue? This would be ridiculous!
Would you like to be forced to pay additional 30% for a tire just because the car manufacturer forced your preferred tire producer to give them a 30% cut from their revenue?
I honestly don't understand anyone complaining about the 30% or 15% cut.
I work in the music publishing industry and there companies take 50 to 75% cut, that you like it or not!
I work in the music publishing industry and there companies take 50 to 75% cut, that you like it or not!
Jesus, stop with the Apple buying every company that challenges them. It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN 🙄🙄🙄🙄
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If Apple felt the need to charge for their SDKs, then they should charge directly for their SDKs. Not for IAPs, external purchases, app installs, or other things unrelated.
The actual reason, though, is that if they did charge for SDK access, a free alternative SDK would pop up in no time and 1. apps would no longer look and feel native; and 2. it would ultimately hurt Apple's bottom line.
Thank you epic for fighting the good fight!
The fact that some industries have it worse doesn't mean we shouldn't root for the tech industry to be better. Besides, I do think labels keeping big cuts of profits from artists is basically stealing.
Apple is charging for access to their overall ecosystem and their APIs. You said Apple should raise their fees. Well…this is their fee. The US judge and the EU DMA doesn’t prohibit Apple for charging for their IP. If Epic doesn’t like it, they are free to not develop for the platform.
still not Apple's issue. it's customer expectations.
Customers can demand all they want to. You dont have to comply. If a good business opportuinity to extend you product reach exists and makes you money then that's a good thing.
I supported a health app for a disability company.
the vendor wrote a Windows version and that was it for years.
then they did an iOS and Android version for cheaper licences to let users check rosters, write notes and clock on/off.
Now the are rewriting to move with the times as a WebApp that will run everywhere at a middle level licence fee.
initially our company bought 4G tablets for users. big mistake. sold them off at a huge loss.
users said phones were easier to carry all day. and it moved to a Bring Your Own Device model.
that presented challenges given some had really old phones.
many didnt know their passwords to download and install the app!
anyway, the point it tech has always evolved.
good business adapts to support and remain profitable.
The EU is however doing nothing more than pandering to two bad businesses who lobby and will never be happy.
Apple let them put their apps in the store. But payment was outside. Boohoo. All this is changing because two companies who have operated for years with large customer bases cant see they dont need in app purchase?
They sell voucher cards in physical stores. Commissions there are at least 30%. So they cant say Apple are charging more. They just want everything for free.
Whilst we are at it, I think it's outrageous that only Walmart are allowed to sell products in Walmart shops. 65 percent of Americans shop at Walmart, so they are now big enough that I believe they should share some of their success with us lesser mortals, you know so that we have 'choice'. I demand that Walmart allows me to set up a lemonade stall in their retail outlets. I'm not stealing off them, I will bring my own table and lemonade. That way the consumer has a much better 'choice', they can either buy my lemonade (which will be cheaper because I don't have to pay for all the shop overheads like security staff, heating, electricity, etc) or they can buy Walmart Lemonade. Obvs if they get sick from my lemonade then they will not be able to go grumbling to Walmart because Walmart didn't sell it to them, I did, but as I'm not held to the same standards as Walmart they won't be able to come to me either. Bonus!
Oh now Walmart will let me open my own Lemonade stall in one of their supermarkets but they are being very unfair and asking me to give them a commission for every lemonade I sell. I'm going to complain to the EU because I feel that I should be allowed to freeload off them because I'm just a small time lemonade seller, but they have the temerity to suggest that people come into Walmart to buy Walmart things and that if they then decide to buy my products they should get something they call a 'commission'.
Oh now Walmart will let me open my own Lemonade stall in one of their supermarkets but they are being very unfair and asking me to give them a commission for every lemonade I sell. I'm going to complain to the EU because I feel that I should be allowed to freeload off them because I'm just a small time lemonade seller, but they have the temerity to suggest that people come into Walmart to buy Walmart things and that if they then decide to buy my products they should get something they call a 'commission'.
Maybe the following helps in understanding the difference: Imagine you bought a car and every gas station in the world would have to pass 30% of the revenue to your car manufacturer each time you fueled your car. Or each time you bought new tires, 30% of the revenue needed to be passed to your car manufacturer. This would never happen and would be considered as illegal anywhere in the world.
Sounds like Epic is right in this case, a court ruling is a court ruling, and it seems Apple is trying to spin it to ignore it. Will be interesting to see what the courts do.
feel free to develop your own hardware, OS, tools and market them if it is so ridiculous...
Apple host millions of apps, many for free and charge very little to devs to use their tools, and upload apps they review. customers feel assured in the process and the store performs better than the Android ones because customers are confident.
Most small app devs are extremely happy how it works and dont whinge about the 15-30% commission charged.