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This is unrelated to what Epic Games is doing on the iOS App Store.

For Apple to extend its punishment to the Mac as well is quite simply an abuse of its power.

I'm beginning to think Epic thought this would play out differently. Glad to see Apple still has the passion of Steve Jobs when it comes to playing hardball. (I'm not saying I agree now or that I agreed every time Steve fought with people, but I always admired him standing on his principles.)
 
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There's a balance here, and I think Apple may have stepped over it when they escalated from the mobile platform to the Mac with the way they handle developer signing

This isn't to do with signing. To understand this issue, you need to understand how software is built:

Operating systems are basically a combination of 2 things: a kernel, and some libraries. Everything you want to do - reading a file, drawing things to the screen, communicating over the network - happens via those libraries which the OS vendor provides.

But to actually use those libraries, you need descriptions of what functionality is available, what it's named and how to invoke it, as well as tooling like a compiler and linker that can produce programs which the OS will understand. That collection of tools and information is called an SDK.

The SDK for Apple's operating systems is only available if you agree to their terms and conditions. Among other things, these stipulate that you can only use the SDK on an Apple computer, which is why you need a Mac for iOS development. Technically, you could copy over the library information, build your own compatible tooling (Apple's tooling is open-source), and create iOS applications on a Linux or Windows computer. But then you'd be in violation of the T&Cs. FWIW, Microsoft's Windows SDK has a similar clause, meaning you can only build Windows applications on computers running Windows.

Anyway, these terms and conditions also say that you must distribute iOS, Apple Watch and Apple TV apps through the AppStore, and that you must not hide things from reviewers. Epic breached that, and by doing so, they lose access to the tools required to build iOS or Mac software. All of Apple's platforms are covered by this single agreement - which is a positive development from when there used to be a separate "iOS developer program", "Mac developer program", etc.

Apple didn't escalate anything. This is a straightforward and necessary consequence of the agreement Epic breached. They lost access to all of Apple's platforms.
 
This is unrelated to what Epic Games is doing on the iOS App Store.

For Apple to extend its punishment to the Mac as well is quite simply an abuse of its power.

Epic doesn’t need the MacApp Store to release the game for Mac. This is Epic being petty. They’re giving Apple a good defence that it’s not about unlocking iOS.
 
My kids stopped playing this Fortnite garbage months ago and not once did they ever play it on our iMac or any of our iOS devices. Good riddance.
 
I disagree. It’s not a separate set of agreements to publish on iOS from macOS: it’s the same developer agreement. Epic breached the terms and Apple are absolutely in the right to terminate Epic’s entire account. Epic behaved like spoiled children throughout this whole situation.

If you sign an agreement and breach one part of the agreement, you’ve breached the whole thing. That’s how contract law works. You can’t say “oh well they only breached this one part.”

Do I think what Apple takes as a cut is fair? No. Is it part of a legally binding contract that Epic signed? Yes. End of story. Apple is in the right here.

Epic is too. They couldn't force the public discussion without blatantly breaking the rules. They tried to negotiate directly and failed to get anywhere with Apple. Truthfully this is probably a very small piece of their revenue and exactly what they expected to happen. As Epic said, they can't provide software to macOS without the account and the ability to sign the software. So regardless if they use the app store or their own launcher, they cannot provide software without the account.
 
You're a parent, as am I. You have a rule that your 10 year old can not play fortnite. If s/he broke that rule and played fortnite anyway, would you be mad? Would you take the game away?

Because Apple also has rules that are clearly stated that everyone has to follow. Epic broke those rules.

Now, out of principal I guess, they are pulling out of the Mac completely. There are no rules in place for a company to develop for the Mac outside of the App store. They could very easily develop games that use their own marketplace / payment / whatever.

No one buys a Mac to game. Some people game on the Mac, but any serious gamer has a PC. Apple will be completely unaffected by this while Epic will see profits drop.

Like you said very little revenue comes from gaming on Mac, so it will not be much of an effect for a FREE game to be pulled from Mac and iOS. Most people played it cross-platform anyway and will continue to do so and make purchases through there.
 
Epic had a great chance to redeem itself. They could have just went with the App Store standards and announce a couple new Mac games are being worked on and Apple would have welcomed them back with open arms. They decided to go the other way and punish the Mac gamer. Not a smart move. Apple would have been cool you are coming out with more games using Metal. Let’s make up.
 
I know this site is "MacRumors" but ... you'll do a lot better in life as a journalist if you take the bias out of your writing and stick to the facts. To everyone automatically taking Apple's side on this issue, I want to point out there is obviously a much bigger contract at play here than we know about that will likely come out (months or years from now) in discovery. This isn't simply an 'App Store Terms & Conditions/Policy' issue for Epic Games, it's a much bigger case on the free market, the rights of the publisher vs. the creator, and has vast ramifications for anyone who creates anything on any platform if this eventually ends up in the Supreme Court.

Tactically, neither company should have let this problem get this far. For Apple, towing the line is one thing as they clearly see the 30% as a core business due to its low maintenance and maximum profitability, but with a new PS5, X-Box, nVidia cards, Google Stadia, VR, their own ambitions in gaming, and the horrible legacy of Gaming on the Mac, this was the worst possible time to alienate gamers again, right when a new generation of systems/platforms are launching.

For Epic, by jumping the gun on the back of the Congressional Anti-Trust hearings without a coalition of at least EA/Activision, they look like petulant children that think the rules don't apply to them.

All of this ^ is my opinion and analysis. That's what's supposed to happen in a forum. But when you launch the premise with inherent bias instead of merely the debate, you damage the ensuing discussion before it even begins.
 
Regardless of what you think of Epic or Apple, the reality is that this is another game developer giving up on the Mac as a platform.

Granted, the Mac was never exactly a good platform for gaming, but it's not exactly great to hear that it's getting worse.

The silicon Macs will change everything once they're shifted completely and ditched Intel.
 
I know this site is "MacRumors" but ... you'll do a lot better in life as a journalist if you take the bias out of your writing and stick to the facts. To everyone automatically taking Apple's side on this issue, I want to point out there is obviously a much bigger contract at play here than we know about that will likely come out (months or years from now) in discovery. This isn't simply an 'App Store Terms & Conditions/Policy' issue for Epic Games, it's a much bigger case on the free market, the rights of the publisher vs. the creator, and has vast ramifications for anyone who creates anything on any platform if this eventually ends up in the Supreme Court.

Tactically, neither company should have let this problem get this far. For Apple, towing the line is one thing as they clearly see the 30% as a core business due to its low maintenance and maximum profitability, but with a new PS5, X-Box, nVidia cards, Google Stadia, VR, their own ambitions in gaming, and the horrible legacy of Gaming on the Mac, this was the worst possible time to alienate gamers again, right when a new generation of systems/platforms are launching.

For Epic, by jumping the gun on the back of the Congressional Anti-Trust hearings without a coalition of at least EA/Activision, they look like petulant children that think the rules don't apply to them.

All of this ^ is my opinion and analysis. That's what's supposed to happen in a forum. But when you launch the premise with inherent bias instead of merely the debate, you damage the ensuing discussion before it even begins.

thank you very much for adding something of value and information to this debate!
 
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Very easy to say Apple should have absolute control over their platform and Epic broke the rules, but ask yourself how you would have felt in the 90s if Dell had insisted on pre-installing Netscape Navigator on every PC sold and Microsoft had refused to allow Dell to buy Windows licenses. I'll bet half the users of this board would have cheered on Dell and told them to stick it to Microsoft while cheering on the DOJ's anti-trust breakup of Microsoft, which didn't have 1/10th the power that Apple does right now.
 
The silicon Macs will change everything once they're shifted completely and ditched Intel.

Are you insinuating that will make gaming easier and more widely supported on a Mac? I find that hard to believe if there is such an architectural difference between the main gaming platform (Windows/x86) and Apple/ARM.
 
Imagine killing your golden goose and claiming that it had a much higher purpose.

100% of $0 is still $0.
 
Very easy to say Apple should have absolute control over their platform and Epic broke the rules, but ask yourself how you would have felt in the 90s if Dell had insisted on pre-installing Netscape Navigator on every PC sold and Microsoft had refused to allow Dell to buy Windows licenses. I'll bet half the users of this board would have cheered on Dell and told them to stick it to Microsoft while cheering on the DOJ's anti-trust breakup of Microsoft, which didn't have 1/10th the power that Apple does right now.

In the 1990s, there were alternative operating systems, and Windows was a mess.

Microsoft deserved to be smacked for their blatant push against Digital Research and others, but the Bush administration had the DOJ monitor their finances instead.

Epic Games just wants more money.
 
Thank god! It’s been almost five minutes since we last heard Epic whining, I was starting to fear their twitter account had been suspended as well.
 
No matter one's side people cheering for Epic has thrown their iOS and Mac users of Fortnite under the bus...

A lesson Epic Games could learn from Apple: don’t throw your own customers under the Battle Bus
https://medium.com/@bazzacollins?source=post_page-----995227e3c24e--------------------------------
 
It is far from abusive. Apple has the same rights as any other organisation to choose what should and shouldn’t be permitted onto their platform. Epic were well aware of the consequences, they even agreed to Apple rules before setting foot onto iOS or MacOS.

They agreed to Apple's rules because they had to, not because they had a choice in the matter.

Any developer whose target audience is anybody, regardless of what phone they use, simply has to make iOS apps because that's where their customers are.

Heck, every platform-agnostic app, game or software-as-a-service package is beholden to Apple's rules to some extent - unless the code can be run entirely in-browser.
 
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