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I'm beginning to think Epic thought this would play out differently.
You could be right. I think that their goal was to head for the exit and just wanted to cause a ruckus on the way out. The part that’s not playing out the way they expected is business partners, like Unreal developers, watching this play out and realizing they’d rather work with a more stable partner (or use internal engines) going forward.
 
So you're saying Epic would have two different developer accounts? One for iOS and one for macOS?

I thought it'd be just one account for both platforms. ... and I'm not sure how you'd expect Epic to support a game on macOS without a developer account?

Though really it seems more a matter of Epic trying to make their customers push on Apple rather than just solving their own problem by abiding by the contract they'd previously agreed to.

To the best of my knowledge, none of Epic's Mac apps broke Apple's terms and conditions. Their iOS app did - and the usual punishment is to reject/remove the app that breaks the rules from its respective App Store. Other developers (such as Facebook) have gotten away with much worse, without even that happening to them.

Moreover, when Apple rejects or removes an app, the developer is allowed to keep developing apps (including the same app on a platform where the rules are less restrictive), provided these apps don't also break Apple's terms and conditions. Apple only ever terminates a developer's entire account in extreme cases, such as outright releasing malware - or, in Epic's case, because Apple wanted to make a very public example of them.
 
Epic is too. They couldn't force the public discussion without blatantly breaking the rules. They tried to negotiate directly and failed to get anywhere with Apple. Truthfully this is probably a very small piece of their revenue and exactly what they expected to happen. As Epic said, they can't provide software to macOS without the account and the ability to sign the software. So regardless if they use the app store or their own launcher, they cannot provide software without the account.
You don't change things by acting like an infant. You open a dialogue first. If that fails, you escalate. Epic went straight to nuclear without any discussion.

If I want a better mortgage rate, I phone up and say "I'm not happy with the current rate."; I don't just stop paying my mortgage.
 
'Save the world'... rriiiight.... One murder/death/kill at a time. Good riddance to violent content. We need less of this crap, not more. So this is a good thing in more ways than one.
 
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Curious decision. If I were Apple, I would use this to rebut the App Store is the gatekeeper arguments Epic is making on the iOS side.

Epic could easily offer games on MacOS completely outside of the Mac App Store (and could utilize whatever in-game payment mechanics they desired in that case) but is instead electing to leave the platform if they can’t use Apples resources for free.
Is that true if they lost developer status? Or are there different dev accounts for each Apple OS?
 
To everyone automatically taking Apple's side on this issue
It’s not so much automatically taking Apple’s side, it’s more automatically being against a company that would agree to do business in a particular way and then renege on that agreement. Folks understand these types of “agreements between entities” because they have to deal with it every day.

Any inherent bias is the same bias folks have against entities that renege on a contract, which does brings a certain amount of due disdain with it.
jumping the gun on the back of the Congressional Anti-Trust hearings without a coalition of at least EA/Activision, they look like petulant children that think the rules don't apply to them.
They were never going to get a coalition because those other companies value contracts between them and other comanies and they adhere to those. If anything, so that, if there are disagreements, that shows they were at least attempting to operate in good faith.
Very easy to say Apple should have absolute control over their platform and Epic broke the rules, but ask yourself how you would have felt in the 90s if Dell had insisted on pre-installing Netscape Navigator on every PC sold and Microsoft had refused to allow Dell to buy Windows licenses.
I’d bet the majority wouldn’t care because what was happening with Dell didn’t affect them very much if at all. Add “Apple” or “Mac” in there anywhere and you might get some attention.
 
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Curious decision. If I were Apple, I would use this to rebut the App Store is the gatekeeper arguments Epic is making on the iOS side.

Epic could easily offer games on MacOS completely outside of the Mac App Store (and could utilize whatever in-game payment mechanics they desired in that case) but is instead electing to leave the platform if they can’t use Apples resources for free.

Great idea and I'm sure Apple's brass has thought of this move, yet I doubt it's their style. Apple does NOT want to be seen as the bully or the one putting salt in a fresh wound.

Peace out yo

LOL.

Apple: 'I ain't no joke' ;)
 
Epic doesn’t need the MacApp Store to release the game for Mac. This is Epic being petty. They’re giving Apple a good defence that it’s not about unlocking iOS.

I thought it'd be just one account for both platforms. ... and I'm not sure how you'd expect Epic to support a game on macOS without a developer account?

When you're both so desperate to refute my post that you end up contradicting each other's arguments.
 
LOL - the slow and painful death of Fortnite and Epic...

NO. ONE. CARES...

Ya breached the contract - you didn't follow the rules - PEACE. OUT.
 
This is purely a spiteful move by Epic. macOS isn't tethered to the App Store on Macs, so they could make it work if they wanted to do that.
 
For those that think Epic won’t be affected by this on consoles. The first thing i thought of when i saw Fortnight in the PS5 preview the other day was, well I’m not getting that. Epic can’t be trusted. I’m not going to spend on a volatile company that is going to take my money and then pull their game midstream. Sony store is a closed platform that takes 30%. Same as Apple. If they are true to their word, its only a matter of time they try this stunt with users money their too. That saying, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, applies here. Guess what Epic, there will be no shame on me. Your loss, not mine.
 
You could be right. I think that their goal was to head for the exit and just wanted to cause a ruckus on the way out. The part that’s not playing out the way they expected is business partners, like Unreal developers, watching this play out and realizing they’d rather work with a more stable partner (or use internal engines) going forward.
They are giving the finger to apple, slitherine game company as none the same thing.
 
Curious decision. If I were Apple, I would use this to rebut the App Store is the gatekeeper arguments Epic is making on the iOS side.

Epic could easily offer games on MacOS completely outside of the Mac App Store (and could utilize whatever in-game payment mechanics they desired in that case) but is instead electing to leave the platform if they can’t use Apples resources for free.
This is the part that confuses me. Like you said, there’s no requirement to distribute the game through the Mac App Store, so why are they allowing that to cause their customer base to diminish? This move in particular makes me feel like they are simply doing this to play victim, and call foul on Apple, when, especially with Mac, they’re is a completely logical and allowed workaround.
 
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Who the ever stoped anyone from developing anything for OSX / MACOS?

Everyone and their mom is releasing whatever they want without using the App Store on desktop.

With their own, Apple Tax free, monetization.

Is this marketing for the stupidest of their players? W00t?
 
This isn't to do with signing. To understand this issue, you need to understand how software is built
<snip>

A) I'm a software engineer
B) This does, in fact, have to do with signing, specifically how Apple handles this in OSX for recognized developers
Screen Shot 2020-09-18 at 11.39.54 AM.png


Which is, not surprisingly, what Epic said if you actually took the time to read their statement instead of trying to explain software and SDKs, it's literally the first sentence
Code:
Apple is preventing Epic from signing games and patches for distribution on Mac, which ends our ability to develop and offer Fortnite: Save the World for the platform

You don't actually need a developer account to develop or publish software for MacOS (and no, despite your comment, it doesnt need to be on the App store at all, in fact Fortnite isnt *now* for MacOS), but you do need one to sign software as an "identified developer". Software that's unsigned can still be run, you just need to explicitly allow it (right now, in the GUI, that means right clicking the app and explicitly opening, then allowing)
 
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Will I get modded for this? hope not. I don’t mean to start a discussion (please nobody reply in that manner... not entirely, 100% sure of this anyway..)

“Apple told Epic that it was ready to "welcome Fortnite back onto iOS" if Epic removed the direct payment option and returned to the status quo while the legal battle plays out in court, but Epic has refused.”

But god... it really seems as some people say: everything really does, sometimes, seem entirely meaningless under capitalism, huh...? 🤔 (or at least it’s state in present day)
 
Epic Games are fools. Absolute fools. Why do they think Apple should treat them differently to any other developer? The App Store has allowed Fortnite to grow and earn them higher amounts of revenue, and yet they‘re shooting themselves in the foot with this little tantrum because they can’t get what they want. Good riddance to them I say.

They are fighting for all developers. 30% of the take is egregious.
Apple is in an interesting situation.
They require onerous fees and prevent side loading of applications.
This is a case of monopolistic behavior.
Google on the other hand cannot be accused as such because you can elect to install apps outside the App Store.
Apple ultimately may not win. They may have to lower fees or allow side loading.
 
When you're both so desperate to refute my post that you end up contradicting each other's arguments.

1. I wasn’t replying to the other poster. Attempting to make two unrelated posts face each other is illogical.
2. In my post I assumed it’s one account across the ecosystem, which agrees with the other poster. The point is that Mac apps can be installed separately outside the App Store. Epic isn’t utilizing this option, with negates an argument that iOS needs to be similarly open. Ergo, they’re shooting themselves in the foot with their own stubborn actions.
3. Your emphasized comments apply solely to yourself. Double irony.
 
To the best of my knowledge, none of Epic's Mac apps broke Apple's terms and conditions. Their iOS app did - and the usual punishment is to reject/remove the app that breaks the rules from its respective App Store. Other developers (such as Facebook) have gotten away with much worse, without even that happening to them.

Moreover, when Apple rejects or removes an app, the developer is allowed to keep developing apps (including the same app on a platform where the rules are less restrictive), provided these apps don't also break Apple's terms and conditions. Apple only ever terminates a developer's entire account in extreme cases, such as outright releasing malware - or, in Epic's case, because Apple wanted to make a very public example of them.

The problem arises because even if Epic removed direct in app on iOS but then allowed the syncing between MacOS that does not follow the rules, it still breaks the rules.
The solution looks simple.
Buy your content offline from iOS then sync. Nope.
 
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