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Epic Games Denied Preliminary Injunction for Fortnite, But Apple Can't Block Unreal Engine
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Can you buy a 1957 Chevy from your local chevy dealer? No? I guess you feel that you have a right to steal one from somebody.
Lmao...I’m seriously laughing out loud.
First - why in the hell would I need to lie over such a stupid thing? All of a sudden people are not forthcoming when they say they are assigned an android company phone? Get down from your high horse, android ain’t special 😂 corporate companies give away android phones like chicklets due to their low cost. And don’t bother telling me how android phones are just as expensive. This was a recent change. We all know the sudden increase in price does not justify what you’re really getting.. you can put lipstick on a pig... it’s still a pig) Unfortunately for me, that’s how I ended up with an android phone as a second phone.
To your point, Keyboard does lag. You do need to provide 2 separate payment methods for Google Play Store and Galaxy Store. Let’s throw in a third store for entertainment purposes... When/if Epic Store mobile app becomes available on Android, that’s a third store the consumer would provide payment method for. Trust me when I tell you, I’d rather throw the PO sh*t galaxy away and never deal with that again, but sadly, it’s company property and I’ll have to continue using it.
Lastly, are you saying android phones don’t lag? Really? You may be the one off that disagrees. However, androids do in fact lag after a short time. It’s no secret. Android Flagships are relevant for maybe 2 years. Good luck even trying to use that thing 5 years from now. At least android / google / samsung is now committing to extending support past the 3 year mark. We can both agree we select our phones / operating system based on our needs. And thats the beauty of Android and iOS.
I will say, you kept me entertained for the day. Thank you. 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
lol! So true 😂 SMS/MMS is archaic at this point. Let’s not get into group chats when you have that 1 person that’s green and you feel like your entire group chat has been downgraded back to the year 2000. 😅
Given the increase percentage wise of Unity (48% to 62%) in one year while Epic has lost ground (13% to 12%), the next highest percentage (47%) is internal proprietary engines, and the one below that is "Other" (23%) I would say that Epic is effectively having pie in the sky dreaming.
Developers, who as a matter of course must be versed in more than one engine, put Unreal as their fourth option.
But Apple did give Epic a chance to fix their app and return to the status quo. Epic being “Epic” did not want to budge so here we are today. The judge even told Epic “just fix / update your app to fall in line with the App Store guidelines that you agreed to so many years ago - Apple will allow you to keep fortnite on the AppStore through litigations”. (We know the CEO Epic’s board is dealing with) Now they have to wait until May 2021.. hopefully for their sake, Fortnite is still relevant then.
At the rate hit games are popping up... Fortnite may very well be last season’s news and memories.
and to your first point- I’ll agree Apple may have been hard headed in certain areas in the early years but they have come a long way since the Steve Jobs’ days.
The pie has gotten bigger. I suspect it's not that Unreal hasn't lost devs, but rather number of mobile devs increased. Unity is great for mobile platforms whereas Unreal is less forgiving.
And yet Epic wants to get on the iOS store - a mobile device which as you just noted is a platform where Unreal is less forgiving. Tell me how that makes a lick of sense.
The logic simply isn't there. In fact, the mobile issue is enough that unless there is some feature Unreal does well that Unity blows goats with or that was the engine a company went with early in series' development there seems to be even less reason to go with Unreal.
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It was a standard in the consoles before that. Or at least it's the standard now. I think the judge even questioned them about it.
Which will likely be increased in the next year as more companies choose this option.
For a preliminary injunction, and assuming the other requirements are met, this one is simply more likely than not. A 51% probability of success on the merits is sufficient.
The reason for this prong is that this is temporary relief to remedy an urgent and irreparable harm that would result in maintaining the status quo during litigation. Where a party can demonstrate such a situation, the temporary relief makes economic sense. However, that would never be the case if the party to which the relief is granted is likely to later lose.
Because it hasn’t yet had full opportunity to litigate the merits of its case. This is simply about temporary (and extraordinary) relief.
1. I think you missed my point. It's less forgiving on mobile devices overall. Think low powered Android phones and tablets which is 80% of the market. Runs fine on iPhones and iPads generally. Also just because it's "less forgiving" doesn't mean it can't be done.
2. Apple wants Unreal Engine on Mac because it helps sell more Mac Pros and iMac Pros.
3. Unreal can only mean good things for AR which Apple is betting on in the future.
4. Outside of games, Unreal is used heavily (architecture and films to name a couple). These industries rely on Macs. You really think Apple wants to kill Unreal?
The fact that there are new mobile devs diving into Unity doesn't really mean anything against my original point. My original point is that judge saying Apple must allow Unreal Engine account to continue is a good thing for Apple. Epic can't break the "bad news" that Unreal devs can't update their iOS games anymore which could have easily turned into a snowball effect of bad PR for Apple. Epic is obligated continue dev on their engine unless they want to be the bad guy and say "well f*** Apple, we're not deving anymore for that platform".
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1) So it a big deal for 20% of the mobile market. Still a smaller share then Unity regarding total marketshare,
2) Non Sequitur. How does Unity not sale more Mac Pros and iMac Pros? Especially if are going for game design - where Unity has the marketshare.
3) Unity has AR capability at 60% of the marketshare. If it can do AR on 80% of the hardware out there with Unity why in the name of sanity would you using Unreal and limit yourself to 20% of the market with Unreal?
4) Unity vs Unreal The Clash of the Titans for Architectural Visualization shows that Unity is no slouch in architecture (if it was a minor player it wasn't be a Titan in the field now would it?) More over I doubt that architecture and films makes up the bulk of either engine's money stream. You go where the larger market is and that is games.
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I agree there are consumer benefits, but I think it's overstating it to say it doesn't exist for developers. Job's original pitch at WWDC was aimed squarely at developers. In particular, he hit heavy on the point that the AppStore would "put your app in front of every single iPhone user".
That benefit is lost if the AppStore fragments, however. Ever iPhone user won't look at every AppStore if there's a plethora of them.
- You were the one that brought up Unity to a conversation that has absolutely nothing to do with Unity.
- Unity having a large user base means nothing about Apple wanting Epic to continue UE dev.
- You say 20% is a big deal in point 1) but in 3) you imply 20% is not a big deal. You literally contradicted yourself.
This is about Epic and Apple. What does Unity have to do with Epic's Unreal Engine account? Talk about non sequitur.
You keep saying "YEAH UNITY BEATS UNREAL" to conversation about Apple vs Epic. Your posts have a bunch of grammatical errors too and it's really difficult to figure out your point. I have absolutely no clue what point you're trying to make here with respect to Epic vs Apple.
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Do they have an actual lawyer? I feel like their whole strategy has been operating at about the same level of sophistication as these forum threads.
I don't see why they'd want to, though. I'd think that as long as their freedom to operate the AppStore is upheld, they don't benefit much from punitive measures against Epic, and certainly not by undermining Unreal Engine.
I think the first attempt to kill the second dev license was a bit of chest beating on Apple's part, and a reminder to Epic that they had more to lose. When the case goes their way, I suspect Apple will want to just put this all behind them and return to the status quo as quickly as possible.
well thanks for the comprehensive reply....but you still didn’t tell which lag fest of an Android phone you use? Pray tell me what an earth did you need to buy from the Galaxy store? Seems quite plausible that two stores each need separate payment details, isn’t that whole point in question with iOS ...only one store allowed?
Look, I am not here to be intentionally provocative with you, but your stereotypical claims are just that, stereotypical. Android phones, and Android no longer lag anymore than iOS does at the end of its own life. As for the 5 years of Apple updates, well here’s the thing, that isn’t always the case either. Last year Apple were selling brand new original SE’s for $239...yet they are on iOS 12...zero updates for those folks? The only way you get anything like 5 years of updates with Apple is to buy your phone on day one. Most of the updates are useless, since the hardware features don’t even exist on the phones to be updated.
Now, here is the perversion of our discussion, my company forced me two years ago to use an iPhone 6S (they didn’t, I had a choice and I decided for the first time to use an iPhone). It was brand new and in all likelihood had its last update, just (2 years?). It’s now a little sluggish, but 100% perfectly fine. I like it a lot and would definitely look at replacing it with another and eagerly wait to see what happens on Tuesday, but at the same time I own an A71 after S10’s Notes any number of Sony’s LG’s etc. There is no discernible difference with any of them. I don’t get lag, I find everything I need in the respective stores (no paid apps on either platform, just the usual banking...) never had a virus etc. My experience is totally the opposite of yours and by having that experience I feel I have the freedoms you don’t, I in good conscience can buy any phone on any platform without concern.
It reminds me of that scene in the first Captain America movie where the officer lobs a (dummy) grenade at the recruits just to watch them scatter.
I don’t know if Apple was genuinely being vindictive or if they knew the second lawsuit would never stick, but it probably sent a rude wake-up call to not only Epic, but every other developer using the Unreal engine as well.
And maybe that’s the point. Even if Unreal sticks around, just the possibility that it might come under risk some day is enough to give the developers second thoughts.
You seem to have forgotten the commente, by you, that caused me to go down this rabbit hole: ,
By game marketshare why would Apple want to keep Unreal? Given Unity is the leader in game marketshare?
Regarding contradictions I assumed (incorrectly as it turned out) that "regarding total marketshare" was undestood. As some one did regarding one of my commas I have gone back and corrected the original post to make it clearer.
And yet Epic wants to get on the iOS store - a mobile device which as you noted is a platform where Unreal is less forgiving.
To spell it out, Apple has ~25% of the mobile market, Unreal has ~12% of the total (game?) developer market, Some 80% of the mobile market doesn't run Unreal for whatever reason. That means that everything else being equal (yes I know but we have to work with something) that is 5.4% ((0.25*0.12)+(0.20*0.12)) of the total mobile game market.
Making money on games is a numbers game ie you want to give your game in as wide a market as possible. (The main reason Apple has blown goats in terms of available games; at best it has been 10% of the desktop market). Yes Borderlands 3 made a lot of money but how much of that was on mobile? Odds are that it was on PCs and non mobile consoles.
Yes. You can make Unreal work on mobile but that effectively limits your market to 20% of android and the ~24% iOS has. Why in the name of sanity would you do such a thing?
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I'm using Windows 10. There are still some active UT99 servers so its still possible to have some good matches. Never really got into UT2004.
I had a look and it looks quite fun so I will probably give it a try. Thanks!
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I don't know if Epic has a lawyer. But I'm 100% sure that they have more than one person who is paid a lawyer's salary.
They are using lawyers from a highly prestigious law firm for this suit. That said, the judge seems unimpressed with them in the hearings.
More or less my question as well.
Your unsubstantiated "thoughts" and "feelings" should not come into the picture.
Is it too much? Maybe. Not my - or your -call to make. I have researched it, though, and it is not only an industry standard percentage and practice, it is a standard practice across industries. Want to sell your product at the supermarket? Get ready to pay placement and other fees for your shelf space and access to customers.
Your unsubstantiated "thoughts" and "feelings" should not come into the picture.
Is it too much? Maybe. Not my - or your -call to make. I have researched it, though, and it is not only an industry standard percentage and practice, it is a standard practice across industries. Want to sell your product at the supermarket? Get ready to pay placement and other fees for your shelf space and access to customers.