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To be honest, Apple policy seems a bit harsh. 30% cut is way to high. If it was 10%, nobody would have raised the voice. Of course, Apple should be charging fees for anyone selling through their platform, the same way Amazon or Ebay charge you a small fee for each item you sell through their platforms. 30% does not sound as a fair deal.
Interesting. I am curious where your definition of fair comes from? So "fair" is 10% for Apple but all other app platforms continue to charge 30% as they currently do? No, what they all do is "unfair", so all platforms should charge 10%. Who gets to decide to enforce that change? Should the government be responsible for determining what the "fair" price is for products that are clearly not essential should be? But what if the business model shows that is unsustainable? Should companies be forced to stay in a market for non-essential services that is not profitable to sustain the "fair" rate.

How is that "fair"?

I have said it before on this forum, I wish everything was magically cheaper. I, however, have little faith in magic. Things cost what they cost because people are willing to pay the cost. Look at iPhone 12 sales: the more expensive iPhones are significantly outselling the smaller (and cheaper) iPhone because the expensive phones have what people want. The argument that Apple would sell more small iPhones if they were cheaper might be true but would the growth in sales offset the lower price? Given consumers' clear demand for bigger phones it seems unlikely, which is exactly the calculation companies like Apple do when setting prices in the first place.

Folks, I get that we all want to pay less for everything while getting paid more for the hard work we do (think about that for a moment). And there are certainly imbalances in the current structure, there are victims of our economic system. EPIC is NOT a victim and we need to stop thinking they are.
 
Interesting. I am curious where your definition of fair comes from? So "fair" is 10% for Apple but all other app platforms continue to charge 30% as they currently do? No, what they all do is "unfair", so all platforms should charge 10%. Who gets to decide to enforce that change? Should the government be responsible for determining what the "fair" price is for products that are clearly not essential should be? But what if the business model shows that is unsustainable? Should companies be forced to stay in a market for non-essential services that is not profitable to sustain the "fair" rate.

How is that "fair"?

I have said it before on this forum, I wish everything was magically cheaper. I, however, have little faith in magic. Things cost what they cost because people are willing to pay the cost. Look at iPhone 12 sales: the more expensive iPhones are significantly outselling the smaller (and cheaper) iPhone because the expensive phones have what people want. The argument that Apple would sell more small iPhones if they were cheaper might be true but would the growth in sales offset the lower price? Given consumers' clear demand for bigger phones it seems unlikely, which is exactly the calculation companies like Apple do when setting prices in the first place.

Folks, I get that we all want to pay less for everything while getting paid more for the hard work we do (think about that for a moment). And there are certainly imbalances in the current structure, there are victims of our economic system. EPIC is NOT a victim and we need to stop thinking they are.
30% is fine, as long they get forced by law to open up iOS like macOS.
Now with Apple Silikon M1 there isn't even this nonsense excuse of security anymore, since both devices holds the same data and use the same SoC type.
 
30% is fine, as long they get forced by law to open up iOS like macOS.
Now with Apple Silikon M1 there isn't even this nonsense excuse of security anymore, since both devices holds the same data and use the same SoC type.
And what if Apples business model is found to be legal and they don't lower the percentage from 30%?
 
To be honest, Apple policy seems a bit harsh. 30% cut is way to high. If it was 10%, nobody would have raised the voice. Of course, Apple should be charging fees for anyone selling through their platform, the same way Amazon or Ebay charge you a small fee for each item you sell through their platforms. 30% does not sound as a fair deal.
Nobody is forcing any dev to sign up and sell an app through the App store. One agrees to these t&c when you enroll in the developer program.
 
And what if Apples business model is found to be legal and they don't lower the percentage from 30%?
Then it's like that there in the US...
Many countries, many fights, they won't win all, and they won't lose all.
But Apple is a corporation primary seeking for money, someday their defenders will realize that, but it will be too late.
 
Sure they could, but then they would not have had hoards of kids up in arms about the loss of their favourite game from their idevice.
Maybe so. I wonder if hordes of people have been up in arms about it? I know it was in the news but I haven’t seen a lot of stories about the actual users — especially now that we’re this far into the situation.
 
Nobody is forcing any dev to sign up and sell an app through the App store. One agrees to these t&c when you enroll in the developer program.
Well, I disagree here. Sure, nobody is forcing them, but the market penetration of iOS devices is, and this is exactly when it becomes a growing problem. iOS must be forced to open like macOS,Windows,Android. In my opinion "any product" that owns a bigger percentage of a market type, must take up a subordinate role to society.
 
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@Wildkraut said "30% is fine, as long they get forced by law to open up iOS like macOS."


Respectfully disagree and no thanks, I will gladly pay more for the walled garden where at least I have a chance of knowing what spyware crap I am downloading to my devices.

If Apple's store was forced to compete with lets say Google, no developer who was relying on ad revenue or spying would list their apps on the Apple store beause they would be forced to identify what data they were collecting. Then it becomes all "good" apps aren't listed on the Apple store because the scumbag devs don't want you to know what they are doing. It is not all about the 30%, sometimes its about privacy.
 
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I love how one tech company makes billions off of it's creation, is objecting to another tech company making billions off of it's own creation... because the first big tech company wants to keep more of the profit they make off of their creation and take away profit from the other big company and their profit from their creation. It's pay-to-play mentality. I want to sell on eBay, I have to pay their fees. My wife sells on Etsy, she pays their fees. I go purchase something from the local Walmart, I'm paying the markup price that includes all the middle-men, shipping, manufacturing, etc.... my cost has all the costs associated with where I buy it built in. If Epic wants a game on Apple's store... play by the rules and pay the price, just like the rest of us. Whether 30% is "fair" is subjective. If I allow you to sell your things at my garage sale, I am free to charge you whatever I choose to use my garage. You either opt to sell there, or not. Get over it and enjoy your 70% of millions/billions of dollars. Just my 2-cents worth (minus 30%)
 
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Well, I disagree here. Sure, nobody is forcing them, but the market penetration of iOS devices is, and this is exactly when it becomes a growing problem. iOS must be forced to open like macOS,Windows,Android. In my opinion "any product" that owns a bigger percentage of a market type, must take up a subordinate role to society.
Consider that the market penetration is because the devices are good, and that a walled garden approach helps that. The alternative is many other companies that provide similar products with a more “open “ mentality such as that proposed by side loading advocates.
Some, (which are not a majority in any market!) prefer the walled garden approach.
The idea that there is a lack of choice is nonsense.
 
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idc what y’all say. sideloading is long overdue. this is one of the few instances where i take apple’s boot out of my mouth.
Then get Android if you want sideloading. Not sure what the big deal is. Competitors offer different things for a reason. I’m ONLY using iPhone due to it’s locked down ecosystem. If that changes, why use iPhone when a $500 Android phone is better?
 
So on PlayStation store Sony isn’t taking a cut at all? I mean Sony is just distributing the games for the fun of it. The most impressive part is the sheer number of digital download stores available on PlayStation consoles. You have the Sony PS Store and then there is the Sony PS Store and the Sony... What about Xbox or Nintendo stores then? They must have all the freedom in the world...

In all honesty, Epic is just a pathetic bunch of whiners who made billions on Apple App Store and now want even more. How about investing those billions on building your own Epic gaming platform? Afraid you’ll loose all your money because the risks are just way too high? Yep, it’s so much easier to be a leech than a true leader and innovator.
 
Say what you want about Apple's cut but not having to deal with payment systems, refunds, etc. is a huge headache and one many indie developers don't need.

As someone who's built e-commerce systems, payment systems are not easy. Chargebacks are not fun. And what happens when a developer decides to fold up shop and all of their in-app paid content goes with it because they need to verify what the user bought, how to serve it, etc.?

I can see where Epic is coming from if they are actually able to do all of this right but Apple wants to treat all developers the same. Yeh, let's let small indie developers control their own in-app payment systems for micro conversions. What could possibly go wrong with that scenario?

And what about built-in parental controls and spending limits?

The only way I can see Apple letting people do in-app payments themselves is if Apple provides the actual merchant processing and API, eg some form of Apple Pay for micro-conversions, that's opened up on a case-by-case basis for businesses who already do a few million per year.

People griping about 30% have clearly never run a business. Whatever tax or fee it is, from credit card processing to hosting to paying employees, the rent is always too damn high.
 
idc what y’all say. sideloading is long overdue. this is one of the few instances where i take apple’s boot out of my mouth.
As an iPhone user I'd love side loading but I also see the value in not allowing it in that it would totally open up the iPhone to piracy.
 
@Wildkraut said "30% is fine, as long they get forced by law to open up iOS like macOS."


Respectfully disagree and no thanks, I will gladly pay more for the walled garden where at least I have a chance of knowing what spyware crap I am downloading to my devices.

If Apple's store was forced to compete with lets say Google, no developer who was relying on ad revenue or spying would list their apps on the Apple store beause they would be forced to identify what data they were collecting. Then it becomes all "good" apps aren't listed on the Apple store because the scumbag devs don't want you to know what they are doing.
What people forget in here, it's not only about Apple, Epic, some Games and Apps, etc. Most people didn't realize that the out coming of this fight will have a much broader impact. Specially because Apple, Google & Co. are getting their feet more and more into other market types like healthcare, pub transport, etc. and Phones turning into peoples primary devices. This case will set the direction of what we will generally encounter everywhere in the future, and with Apple winning it won't be a bright one. A future full of wallet gardens and finger clamps, incl. healthcare, not only Apple wallet gardens. People will have to pay till their wallets bleed badly, and if you can't pay you're trash.
 
Do tell. How is letting us sideload apps or choose another payment system a BAD thing?
It's not a matter of good or bad. You can sideload all the apps you want, just go buy an Android device and have a nice time sideloading. No one is making anyone buy an Apple device, they do it out of free choice. That freedom of choice doesn't confer entitlement to dictate terms after the purchase.
 
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Wow, months on a lawsuit? That’s unheard of! Wait, don’t pretty much all lawsuits take months for the discovery process?
 
I love how one tech company makes billions off of it's creation, is objecting to another tech company making billions off of it's own creation... because the first big tech company wants to keep more of the profit they make off of their creation and take away profit from the other big company and their profit from their creation. It's pay-to-play mentality. I want to sell on eBay, I have to pay their fees. My wife sells on Etsy, she pays their fees. I go purchase something from the local Walmart, I'm paying the markup price that includes all the middle-men, shipping, manufacturing, etc.... my cost has all the costs associated with where I buy it built in. If Epic wants a game on Apple's store... play by the rules and pay the price, just like the rest of us. Whether 30% is "fair" is subjective. If I allow you to sell your things at my garage sale, I am free to charge you whatever I choose to use my garage. You either opt to sell there, or not. Get over it and enjoy your 70% of millions/billions of dollars. Just my 2-cents worth (minus 30%)

Absolutely this. It’s not like Epic are paying the fees anyway. The Devs set the prices in order to cover their costs and make a profit. We, the users pay the set price, which includes the fees, directly to Apple and Apple distributes the money, minus the fees to the devs. The devs never see the full amount to then have to pay Apple the fees….it is taken directly from the users.

A subtle distinction, but one worth making. As a user, it is one of the reasons I choose to use the Apple ecosystem. Privacy, Security and ease of use is important to me and I am willing to pay more for the system that achieves this. As are Billions of users worldwide because they knowingly PAY MORE for Apple Products in a FREE CHOICE over Android.

This is what the free market is all about…one where I can choose to have a walled garden and pay more for that privilege. You can’t possibly argue for a free market all the while talking about removing my choice.
 
Physical product purchases are not subject to the 30% fee so its a null argument. Although it will probably require a separate payment portal. However if their idea is some kind of vbucks to dollars currency exchange that could get messy real fast.
Exactly. If people are buying Vbucks (and Apple gets a cut of that) and then spending Vbucks in-game (on anything, from concert/movie tickets to skins, to physical products) Apple's going to take a cut of those revenues (up-front).

Epic tried to work around this in the past, with a cheaper Vbucks payment portal online, but the convenience of in-app purchases still cut into their bottom-line.
 
Do tell. How is letting us sideload apps or choose another payment system a BAD thing?

You can, those options are available to you on other platforms.

Tell me this, why do you think you can exert your will on another persons business model? Do you go into MacDonalds and order a Whopper? Do you demand that they make you a Whopper? Do you speak to Government to get them to force MacDonalds to make you a Whopper? Or do you just go to Burger King and buy a Whopper?
 
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