Epic Games, Spotify, and Tile Form 'Coalition for App Fairness' to 'Fight Back' Against Apple

[MauiPa]

This has got to be the dumbest recurring argument, though there are a lot of dumb ones.

"Don't prosecute me for murder! That other guy is also murdering someone!"

For the record, "letting the market decide" is one of the fundamental underpinnings of the free market system, and is not a crime in any venue. so dumbest argument? Only if you don't believe in a free market.

The point I and others are making is the false indignation and outrage aimed at Apple for having a market based fee is nonsense. If you are really against 30% (assuming it is still not akin to murder), then just say so and apply it to all vendors equally. Amazon, Google....... I can't see any other marketplace where you can freely advertise your own products through the marketplace and circumvent the marketplace where you are advertising for free. amazon doesn't allow it, nor does Google.

I am presuming that you are aware also that Spotify and others can easily bypass the App Store payments by having customers sign up to subscriptions on their own web sites and handling the payments themselves? So fees: $0.

Should the market decide on a lower fee than 30%. I dunno, let the market decide. If it is too high, Google will lower theirs, then Apple will follow suit.

So "dumbest argument", NO, this argument is not the one that qualifies for that

 

[roar08]

#applivesmatter

 

[daftpunker909]

Hahahahaha. So funny. Can't wait for Apple to crush these morons and put them out of business.

You might wanna stop drinking the apple cool aid. They don't care about you

 

[willyx]

30% is a revenue share that covers use of Apple’s IP, various expenses plus profit.

No revenue, no share. But if there is IAP revenue, share they must. That’s what the developer agreement states. Devs don’t have to develop for

Epic paid for 8+ years until they decided to get greedy and zero out Apple’s cut. Good luck with that, Epic.

Oh, all right. Let different payment platforms enter and then there will be zero IAP revenue, thus zero IAP cut. I'm fine with that.

Epic and others paid until it Apple is starting to compete with them at a cheaper price piggybacking on that 30% cut that Apple itself does not have to pay.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Wow, businesses on the brink of going away because Apple did something better. shocked.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

But once you have paid taxes on it, expenses and more, it will be more like $350000 depending on country. Still not bad, but make that cool 1 million something like 3000$ or 4000$ and it is less interesting.

Let’s say I’ve made an app. With funky little in-app purchases. However, it’s not doing super well, but consistently brings in $4000 a month. That would mean $2,800 a month or $33,600 a year. I haven’t dealt with customers international taxes or exchange rates, haven’t dealt with billing, in the meantime I got busy with my REAL job, so I haven’t spent any time updating it, haven’t spent any money on storage or web server resources, that’s just a clear extra $33,600 a year. Still, not a bad take considering how much effort I put into it.

The reason why the vast majority of developers have nothing to say on this is because it’s a good deal, regardless of what analogy you put on it. I mean, just the idea of starting a revenue sharing agreement conversation with someone where the contract isn’t automatically starting out at 50-50 is a good deal. 70-30 is excellent.

 

[willyx]

Except, they can sign people up and take payments on their own websites, just like Spotify does already. that is why I am not seeing their problem. Imagine if you search amazon for a new sweater, find it, then wonder why company x doesn't advertise it on their own web site instead of paying amazon? Of course, you can click the link and go to the web site and see if you can get the sweater cheaper directly or not. hmmmm - just like the App Store. Coalition for amazon Fairness!

That situation has so many differences to the one being discussed here that I do not know where to start. Do some research.

 

[ghostface147]

Regardless of what side of the Epic fence you are on, I am curious what Apple’s plan is if they are told that they are a monopoly.

 

[compwiz1202]

There are blatant mistruths on the App Fairness front page. For example, "For most purchases made within the App Store, Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. No other transaction fee — in any industry — comes close."

Let's list other companies that charge a similar fee for similar overhead: Google, Steam, Amazon, UberEats, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, GrubHub, eBay+PayPal, and the list goes on, I am sure.

Another example, "If consumers want to use a modern mobile device, Apple levies a tax that no one can avoid. No competition, no options, no recourse."

Unless the Apple tax now extends to the billions of Android phones out there, this is ridiculous on its face. While I content that Apple and it's ecosystem are superior (in large part due to the App Store and it's walled garden), to say that Android-based phones are not a modern mobile device and that Apple has no competition is being willfully ignorant, at best.

And the food and grocery deliveries are the worst because not only do they charge a fee, the merchants inflate prices noticeably on top

 

[Stevez67]

You might wanna stop drinking the apple cool aid. They don't care about you

Neither does the coalition. The coalition is just trying to increase their profits and market control.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

These guys are barking at the wrong tree.

 

[compwiz1202]

Exactly, Apple has spent BILLIONS and many years developing and producing an Eco system that is safe, secure and comprehensive. Should they NOT be paid for their work? If you don't like it, there is another eco system down the street to go play on (Android, or Windows mobile). Or better yet, spend the time and money and build your own eco system, then you can do anything you want on it.

For this, I will NEVER buy another EPIC product again, ever.

Yes if anything I was neutral to Epic and the others before. Now this crap just makes me go out of my way to avoid their products

 

[neuropsychguy]

Indeed (in some countries it is even more than that), but your boss gave you that job, he should have his well-deserved cut on your salary too because without him it would be zero. If more Apple fervent defenders had cool bosses taking that 30% cut, maybe they would see thing differently.

The analogy was flawed. It's not your boss taking 30% of your paycheck. Apple is not the boss of these developers. Apple is more like the government, which is why I wrote my analogy (which is still flawed but more accurate).

Even if we look at this like work. Bosses do take pay away from paychecks (at least in the U.S.). I have employer-sponsored health insurance (great plan, cheap rates directly out of pocket). However, if we add up what I pay + what my employer pays for my health insurance, it equals about 27% of my salary. So right there, almost 30% of my salary is gone (assuming I'd be paid the full amount of what goes towards health insurance) -- paid to my "boss". Plus, add in the fact that I need to pay to park at work, I'm not reimbursed for commuting costs, etc. I effectively pay my boss more than 30% of my salary just to work where I do. I love my job and what I get to do but there are "costs" to work where I do.

Note: I didn't factor in retirement benefits. I pay some, my employer pays some. If I add in what my employer pays, my fee for working where I do is 18+%. Add to it parking, commuting, and other costs and it is higher.

I receive benefits from this (health insurance, some money towards retirement, etc.) but developers also receive benefits from Apple. Is 30% too high? Maybe, but unless Epic can document how much it really costs Apple to run the App Store (allowing for profit margins), their arguments are weak and methods are unethical. Granted, Apple might have inefficiencies in their company that needlessly inflate costs but that could be sorted out.

 

[4jasontv]

Being against this sort of unionization is akin to bootlicking to me. You all realize that Apple pools together resources to control the market? It's all a power game and Apple is playing as aggressively as anyone. Why shouldn't other companies form together to also play the power game? What is it when Apple buys up companies? Or the walled garden approach? What about when companies merge? Or when VCs invest into a startup? It's all about power.

These big companies rely on those that provide services to be small, desperate, disparate, and competitive. It's ok for Jeff Bezos to play the power game, but when workers want to play the same sort of power game, bootlickers come out of the woodwork to shame them. We'll do anything to keep our corporate overlords happy, it's shocking.

I don't see anything in the 'fairness' that helps customers. Where is the right to resell any app or DLC at any time on any app store for any price? I expect to see used copies of apps, games, movies, and books available right next to new ones. Why on earth would I pay full price for a song when someone who is tired of it is willing to sell it to me for 1/8th the price? Where is the banning of subscription hardware services and consumable microtransactions?

 

[cocky jeremy]

You might wanna stop drinking the apple cool aid. They don't care about you

When did I say they did? Or that I expect them to?

 

[daftpunker909]

Neither does the coalition. The coalition is just trying to increase their profits and market control.

That's a quite simplistic view of the situation. Spotify wants Apple to compete fairly with them, which they are currently not since Apple Music does not have to pay 30%. Reading through these comments Apple fans want Apple to crush their competition, which is quite literally the definition of monopolistic behavior.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Everyone? Epic charges 12%.

TIL: Epic has its own app store on phones. Neat!

 

[ss2cire]

this is crazy.... smh

 

[Wolf39us]

Like it or not, if you want a piece of the Apple pie (users) then you need to pay the Apple Tax.

It's very simple. If you don't, then you walk.

If you don't agree with the way Apple is running things, then you can stick to Android. The "market" will decide if they want to stick with Apple if Apple doesn't want to play nice.

My guess? Users aren't going anywhere. Apple has the perfect chokehold, and I agree with them.

 

[ArPe]

Companies that will NEVER see another penny from my pocket.

• Epic Games
• Spotify
• Tile
• Basecamp
• Blix
• Blockchain
• Deezer
• the European Publishers Council
• Match
• News Media Europe
• Prepear
• ProtonMail
• SkyDemon

All those crap can be signed up on Safari or their desktop app so they are complaining for no reason. If they want hosting, marketing, review system, safe payment processing and refund management on the Google/Apple App Store they need to pay the floor rent.

 

[DelayedGratificationGene]

Exactly, Apple has spent BILLIONS and many years developing and producing an Eco system that is safe, secure and comprehensive. Should they NOT be paid for their work? If you don't like it, there is another eco system down the street to go play on (Android, or Windows mobile). Or better yet, spend the time and money and build your own eco system, then you can do anything you want on it.

For this, I will NEVER buy another EPIC product again, ever.

Agreed. Will never buy an Epic product again. Who is Epic to compromise my iPhone security! I love my iPhone for its security. How dare they try and force spple to weaken its security just so they can picket more money. Please Epic just go away.

 

[realdangerdan]

AT&T, Verizon and T-mobile should start asking Apple for 30% of their revenue, you would be OK with that right? I mean, they build it and Apple is leeching of them.

Absolutely no idea what comparison you’re trying to make here.

 

[4jasontv]

Like it or not, if you want a piece of the Apple pie (users) then you need to pay the Apple Tax.

It's very simple. If you don't, then you walk.

If you don't agree with the way Apple is running things, then you can stick to Android. The "market" will decide if they want to stick with Apple if Apple doesn't want to play nice.

My guess? Users aren't going anywhere. Apple has the perfect chokehold, and I agree with them.

We really need to stop using this tax. It was great when it was just us bickering with non-apple people, but since it's not really a tax it's not really a thing. Apple charges more - but that isn't a tax. They are not the government.

 

[ArPe]

The Coalition for App Fairness has released their official mascot.
View attachment 958604

Generation Freetard doesn’t want to pay for anything but they want to earn as much money as possible from others. They already have software, music and movies and clothes so much cheaper than their parents and they are still not happy. This is Spotify and billionaire Tim Swiney’s audience and who they are reaching out to.

 

[McKodiak]

If the walled garden was not popular this would not be happening. Apple is being attacked for building an ecosystem that consumers want. Apple consumers should weigh in, not developers. Developers feel forced to provide apps for all ecosystems so they can reach customers. If there are Apple consumers that don't like the ecosystem, they can move on. Android is the platform that they want.