Epic Games, Spotify, and Tile Form 'Coalition for App Fairness' to 'Fight Back' Against Apple

[countryside]

I am confused... Apple created the hardware and software and services that allow for an App Store. The ability to have an app on the App Store is a privilege, not a right? Correct? If they wanted to shut down the App Store due to (hypothetical) bankruptcy, they could, right? Would Epic Games be able to sue Apple to open the App Store?

I just do not understand... Apple CREATED the App Store. Nobody is entitled to sell stuff on it.

 

[graanco]

I had to write into this post so someone can explain the justification for 30% on the products made by others. And did the Supreme Court rule the apple App Store a monopoly and will allow others in. Maybe then competition will bring down the prices and make it better!! Where is apple innovation!! Down with Tim!! The Crook!!

 

[LeadingHeat]

Sad to see ProtonMail on this list. I like how much they’re focused on user privacy. I just wish they’d realize that that’s what Apple focuses on too.

 

[countryside]

I had to write into this post so someone can explain the justification for 30% on the products made by others. And did the Supreme Court rule the apple App Store a monopoly and will allow others in. Maybe then competition will bring down the prices and make it better!! Where is apple innovation!! Down with Tim!! The Crook!!

It is called free-market capitalism. If they charge too much, people can go elsewhere. I am very content, so stay with Apple. If they charge too much, people will leave and force Apple to reevaluate their business practices. However, it is clear they are doing just fine.

 

[dvanwinkle]

If side loading is ever allowed, I won't be able to allow my kids some freedom with an iPhone while still having control over what they can do with it. I don't allow my kids to put any games on their phone that have ads or have the ability to talk to others. I will never allow my kids to put social media like TikTok or Snapchat on their phones. Allowing another App Store outside of Apple means less control in my hands as well as other parents. If the iPhone is forced to go the way of Android I will just not allow my kids to have smart phones.

It blows my mind that they are making this kind of stink over things. Imagine if Nintendo were forced to allow another store on their devices, or Xbox or Playstation.

I get that the main thing that they want is to stop paying for in-app purchases and have their own payment provider. They should stick to that fight, but I still want Apple to be able to limit that with parental controls. Example: If you want to use in-app purchases in your app, you are still required to use Apple as an option and parental controls can still disable the non-Apple option. I'd be 100% okay with that, but from what I'm reading the "coalition" would probably throw a fit over that too.

 

[LeadingHeat]

Sad to see ProtonMail join this. Their stance on things is usually more though-out. How they can even think to join forces with companies like Epic Games or Spotify...

Woah, I didn’t get through enough pages before posting my comment I guess. 😅😂

 

[AppleMad98004]

This group is free to build an OS, a hardware device(s), and an App Store.... Apple is a private company and the App Store is theirs. You can't force any company to open their property without following their rules.

Apple has the complete legal right to ban ALL third party apps and just make their own if they wanted. Completely close the system. Now they won't do that but they have that right.

 

[jamcgahey]

So I used Spotify for YEARS; however, this constant whining about unfair business practices really annoys me. I got Spotify Premium for free through my family and pay for Apple Music family for mine. Recently Spotify has been doing a lot of irritating things one of them being exactly this. Crying that they are being charged to have their app on the Apple Store. The other is the recent push from a small part of Spotify trying to essentially suppressing free speech on the Joe Rogan Experience. The argument is very simple: Spotify would not have nearly as many subscribers if it wasn't available on Apple's App store. They offer a desktop version that they do not get charged a premium for as it can be downloaded via the internet. The App Store is a product offered/managed by Apple for both the consumer and developer. Spotify doesn't have to be on the App Store; however, they choose too clearly because it is in their financial interest. Apple is aware of the money developers can make off of THEIR marketplace. They are allowed to dictate the rules for their own marketplace. This is a free-market society. If they want to be competitive they should figure out a way to compete with Apple instead of throwing a tantrum until they get their way.

I wish I could delete the app altogether as they annoy me, but I like the Joe Rogan Experience and they've monopolized that....Maybe Apple should complain about that?

 

[ksgant]

These companies won't be happy until there's other alternative "App Stores" that you could use...all with their bag of malware horrors that we see on Android now. Developers may even forego using Apple's app store and use some alternative app store...one that doesn't do testing of apps. One that doesn't look for malware or rely on some automated algorithm to do it (like Google's now), so then things slip by and we'll see headlines like we see on Android "App that was downloaded a million times was spying on blah blah blah". It happens all the time.

Alien Android Banking Trojan Sidesteps 2FA

A new 'fork' of the Cerberus banking trojan, called Alien, targets victims' credentials from more than 200 mobile apps, including Bank of America and Microsoft Outlook.

threatpost.com

But hey, at least billion dollar companies like Epic won't get any fees charged to them, and that's much more important.

 

[Analog Kid]

Much better choice than baseless lawsuits. If they want to form a lobby, that seems reasonable. I think they're wrong, I hope they find no traction, but they've got a right to voice their concerns and pool their resources.

It does look like a bit of a crybaby move to me, especially because they only seem to be focusing on Apple. But their money, their voice. Whatever. Spotify has now forever associated their reputation with those of Epic and Tile though, so I'm not sure they really thought this through.

There are blatant mistruths on the App Fairness front page. For example, "For most purchases made within the App Store, Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. No other transaction fee — in any industry — comes close."

Let's list other companies that charge a similar fee for similar overhead: Google, Steam, Amazon, UberEats, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, GrubHub, eBay+PayPal, and the list goes on, I am sure.

Another example, "If consumers want to use a modern mobile device, Apple levies a tax that no one can avoid. No competition, no options, no recourse."

Unless the Apple tax now extends to the billions of Android phones out there, this is ridiculous on its face. While I content that Apple and it's ecosystem are superior (in large part due to the App Store and it's walled garden), to say that Android-based phones are not a modern mobile device and that Apple has no competition is being willfully ignorant, at best.

It also seems a bit of a stretch to refer to this as a "non-profit". It's probably true under whatever rules they formed this little organization, but the goal is obviously to improve the profits of its members.

 

[TiggrToo]

This has got to be the dumbest recurring argument, though there are a lot of dumb ones.

"Don't prosecute me for murder! That other guy is also murdering someone!"

This is what happens when you don’t read the source before commenting.

This is the coalition’s statement:

“For most purchases made within its App Store, Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. No other transaction fee — in any industry — comes close.”

So, the coalition totally and utterly lied through their teeth just to make a point.

And your post missed the point being made about Google.

 

[mannyvel]

This is the coalition’s statement:

“For most purchases made within its App Store, Apple takes 30% of the purchase price. No other transaction fee — in any industry — comes close.”

So, the coalition totally and utterly lied through their teeth just to make a point

These people obviously have never dealt with retail. In retail they don't charge a fee, they just buy the products for less - sometimes substantially less - than the retail price, then mark it up.

Furniture, from what I understand, has like a 300-400% markup.

 

[BvizioN]

Looks like it’s...game over...for Apple.

There isn’t any parallel universe where that ends up being true and yo know it.

 

[daniesy]

Yes! The more the merrier. Apples' closed gated system needs to be crushed.

 

[smarch]

coalition for wack wackness

 

[mac.ross]

I had to write into this post so someone can explain the justification for 30% on the products made by others. And did the Supreme Court rule the apple App Store a monopoly and will allow others in. Maybe then competition will bring down the prices and make it better!! Where is apple innovation!! Down with Tim!! The Crook!!

30% is practically nothing compared to what software developers were having to accept before.

To get their application on a phone they had to pay the carriers directly, that was generally 50%-70% straight off the bat that developers were losing, physical copies were usually even worse (and weren't even an option for small developers/studios).

Apple practically created an entire development industry by creating the App Store and it's still by far the most profitable place for developers to distribute their apps, even with the App Store cut.

Apple handles everything for the developers, from tax to an extremely popular and trusted storefront that does advertising, distribution and payment handling as well as providing a catalogue of robust APIs and development tools to developers.

30% is practically nothing for an industry that Apple created out of thin air, this is nothing but greedy developers taking things for granted and wanting to make use of what Apple has created without paying for it.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Looks like it’s...game over...for Apple.

I'm pretty sure we're still at the beginning. Similar coalitions have formed before, but they didn't have anywhere near as big names as this one does. Besides the members actually in this group, Microsoft and Facebook have also filed Amicus Briefs on behalf of Epic in the court cases.

Also, the dumbest thing here is that if Apple loses the court case, they'll still win. Having alternative app stores will increase the number of people switching from Android to iOS, not vice versa. Sure, they'll lose a bit of revenue from the iOS App Store, but that's not Apple's big money maker - they'll see a greater boost in iPhone and iPad sales.

So Apple is just actively fighting against the thing that gets them more customers and more marketshare, just so they can lord over the trash heap that is the iOS App Ecosystem (and it is a trash heap. What percentage of apps on the iOS App Store are any good? 20%? 10%? Less?)

 

[Wolf39us]

We really need to stop using this tax. It was great when it was just us bickering with non-apple people, but since it's not really a tax it's not really a thing. Apple charges more - but that isn't a tax. They are not the government.

You know what. You're right! I won't use "tax". This is simply what they charge.

 

[lederermc]

A range of companies, including Epic Games, Spotify, and Tile, have formed a new organization called the "Coalition for App Fairness," in an effort to highlight developer issues with Apple.

The organization describes itself as "an independent nonprofit organization founded by industry-leading companies to advocate for freedom of choice and fair competition across the app ecosystem." The coalition is based in Washington D.C. and Brussels, and aims to lead legal and regulatory changes with regards to what it says are three key issues; "anti-competitive policies," "30 percent app tax," and "no consumer freedom."

It sets out a ten-point plan on its website for changes it would like to see made. The points include the demands that "no developer should be required to use an app store exclusively," "every developer should always have access to app stores," "every developer should always have the right to communicate directly with its user through its app," "no app store owner or its platform should engage in self-preferencing its own apps or services," and "no developer should be required to pay unfair, unreasonable or discriminatory fees or revenue shares."

The group includes Epic Games, Spotify, Tile, Basecamp, Blix, Blockchain, Deezer, the European Publishers Council, Match, News Media Europe, Prepear, ProtonMail, and SkyDemon, many of whom have had major disagreements with Apple over various issues.

The group is actively lobbying other developers to join it, saying "together we will fight back against the monopolist control of the app ecosystem by Apple."

Article Link: Epic Games, Spotify, and Tile Form 'Coalition for App Fairness' to 'Fight Back' Against Apple

The 30% commission has an exception for reader apps. I would hope that Apple would allow any app to be financed solely my out-of-app purchases like Netflix. I'm not sure what this communication with the user is all about. I have apps that allow me to do that. for example "System Status" and "Network Analyzer" apps by technet.net has a link to their home page.

There can't be a monopoly when Apple has only ~15% of the market. These developers can and do put their products on other platforms. Or they can write the apps to run in the browser using industry standard protocols.

 

[kmj2318]

It's very simple. If you don't, then you walk.

If you don't agree with the way Apple is running things, then you can stick to Android. The "market" will decide if they want to stick with Apple if Apple doesn't want to play nice.

I think this is too simplistic. Individuals can form coalitions, that is also part of the free market.

 

[nexusrule]

Looks like it’s...game over...for Apple.

Why because 10 self-interested companies have made a website that start lying from the home page? When you start staring lies about basic fact from the first page of your manifesto it’s really hard that authorities and judges will take you seriously. This is just a marketing ploy for suckers.

 

[ArPe]

Epic CEO worth $30 billion

Spotify CEO worth $4 billion

Apple CEO worth $800 million.

Paste that everywhere you see this conversation.

 

[Altivec88]

As long as epic allows other developers to open an app store in their games to sell content.

 

[Analog Kid]

Good luck. The Hippocrates unite.

Are you sure you're not confusing this with Doctors Without Borders, or the American Medical Association? 🤔

 

[Jimmdean]

This really has nothing to do with Apple specifically, but our economy as a whole.

Anyone that thinks Epic has a case needs to do a little research on the principles of the free market economy.

Epic would apparently like the government to start regulating pricing? I can't imagine why any serious business would want that. Aren't the pricing practices in the gaming industry way more unfair than anything Apple does?

Epic should be happy to give Apple 30% of what they make as opposed to the government legislating that micro-transactions are anti-customer and should be illegal. I wonder if their lawyers told them that could happen.